2G FIAV block off, fixed high idle, now causing another idle issue

[Misterflipster]

So yesterday i got the fiav blocked and now from a cold start i hold the throttle open and the car will eventually hold itself at 1k. However once i go to drive it and i put it under load, when i come off the gas it will die.

Other issue i have is that the car wont start after it warms up, im thinking its an alternator issue because it will run for some time and die on its own also. Dash lights flicker, i havent seen headlights flickering but yeah. I think its an alternator? My tuner suggested checking grounds (he believes the car might be relying on the chasis too much for ground??)

 

[Misterflipster]

We are now 7 pages in on a car that won't idle. I have the following suggestions.

Boost leak test the car
Fix all leaks found by boost leak test
Read all of the ECM tuning how tos, suggestions etc on their webpage. There must be a general understanding of the functionality of ECMlink.
Why did you block off the FIAV in the first place?

This is NOT a personal shot but please tell us your mechanical skill level. You should have found several of these things yourself before you ever took it somewhere. Understandable if you do not have the knowledge base but you do seem to have skill concerning wiring, ohming components etc. Alternator, fans etc likely should've been found. You likely need to check every connector and make 100% sure everything is functional, at least to the best of your ability.

For what it's worth here is what i see.
Car idles high.
It is not possible for the car to idle above 1500rpm. ECU prevents that IF....IF it knows throttle is closed. So if you are "idling" above 1500 either something in the idle position circuit isn't right or the throttle isn't really closed. It was mentioned earlier that the car should surge. Here is why. IF you have leaks, incorrect BISS settings, ISC bad etc etc you could have more air coming into engine. Several of those possibilities are measured air so ECU adds fuel. At 1500rpm ecu cuts fuel because idle position switch (IPS) is closed. RPMS drop, ecu jumps in again, cycle repeats. That is the surge. In your case you're above 1500 rpm. Throw in multiple ECMtuning setting issues and as stated earlier in the thread it's amazing the car even starts.

Give us some rundown on what you know and help us help you. We're making ground.

Reason for block off was 1. Tuner suggested it as "most of the dsm guys do it when they have these idle issues" 2. There is a video on youtube of a guy who literally had a 3k idle and block off brought it down to 1ish so thats why i opted as well...

One thing I’d like to add to Paul’s list of to dos for the idling. Ensure the sas has not been touched. Factory settings are 1 1/4 turn after the screw makes contact with the throttle plate. This should be done FIRST before any other biss adjustments, throttle cable adjustments and tps adjustments.

-Daniel

@Justin DuBois oh, thats the screw that goes in front of the throttle linkage? I posted a pic earlier i dont have a screw there...

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[pauleyman]

Reason for block off was 1. Tuner suggested it as "most of the dsm guys do it when they have these idle issues" 2. There is a video on youtube of a guy who literally had a 3k idle and block off brought it down to 1ish so thats why i opted as well...

We've already established your tuner likely doesn't understand anything.
It won't hurt anything at this point but leaks will.

The sas and biss are different. The sas is the screw that stops the throttle plate that the throttle cable is attached to. Loosen the lock nut and unscrew it until the screw is no longer touching the throttle plate stop. Unhook the throttle cable first. After the screw makes contact with the throttle plate go 1 1/4 turns. Then tighten the lock nut.

This needs to be done before any other throttle body adjustments. After the sas is set correctly move on to the rest of the adjustments. Throttle cable adjustment next. Then adjust the tps because it will need redone after messing with the sas. Which is why it is important to do this in the order I’m telling you to. Then the biss which should be about 2- 2 1/4 turns out after screwing in the whole way. Logged isc position should be hovering close to 30 on a warm engine.

-Daniel

It's been so long since I've had a 1g I can't remember. Does the idle position switch adjustment hold throttle plate enough to cause these issues? I can see it. It works as a throttle stop sure but it would seem if it's missing altogether as the OPS case the throttle may go a little past center on "throttle closed".

 

[Misterflipster]

We've already established your tuner likely doesn't understand anything.
It won't hurt anything at this point but leaks will.

Okay all i am updating the link, i have set my wideband to UEGO, -30 global and curre tly looking at resetting maps....i noticed under the MAF comp tab, under options it says MAF type, its currently set to speed density....since i dont have the sensor plummed in should i still leave it on SD or switch it? (Obviously since i replaced the MAF with a MAP sensor im assuming it stays on SD?

It's been so long since I've had a 1g I can't remember. Does the idle position switch adjustment hold throttle plate enough to cause these issues? I can see it. It works as a throttle stop sure but it would seem if it's missing altogether as the OPS case the throttle may go a little past center on "throttle closed".

@99dsmso if i dont have the screw?

I'm not sure you grasped what I meant about the direct maps. There is another set under the Direct Access button of parameters you can modify. The ones that have been modified are in bold and when you press the right most back and forward arrow you can see the original and modified values.

For example in this CrankingFuelAdj has been modified to add quite a bit of fuel at starting and may be part of your hot start difficulty. I'd suggest resetting all of the modified maps until you have the car better sorted. The TmngMaxOct map has some advanced timing that should be reviewed.

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I hit the reset button, but dont see the maps change?

heres with the wideband set to UEGO, -30 global

 

[Dericsh]

@99dsmso if i dont have the screw?

I’ve no experience not running one, but I briefly read in another thread that an 2g doesn’t need it to be plugged in. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t have to be present. Assuming if it’s causing a problem, then you’ll have to source a used one.

Rix racing, performancepartout or Facebook.

Alternatively, These guys make a bypass/replacement but the issue you’ll have is sourcing a lock nut since yours is completely gone.

Idle Set Stop Screw 1G DSM

Idle Set stop screw 1G DSM

dsmotorsport.com

@Misterflipster late edit, my bad

 

[99dsmer4g63]

It's been so long since I've had a 1g I can't remember. Does the idle position switch adjustment hold throttle plate enough to cause these issues? I can see it. It works as a throttle stop sure but it would seem if it's missing altogether as the OPS case the throttle may go a little past center on "throttle closed".

Mostly likely yes but once the throttle plate goes that far a lot of the times you can often feel them slightly catch inside the throttle body. I think this would also change the amount of air that the factory figured in for their factory settings like the biss adjustments etc.

I’m just trying to make sure everything is correct. It would be the tps adjustment and idle switch inside the tps that I think would suffer most due to the missing sas. I know you can simulate it with link but I feel that’s lazy and it should be correctly set.


Also did you see if you have a fuel pressure regulator with a gauge? Is it set to 43psi?

-Daniel

 

[Vegas Smith]

Idle position switch is not needed. I haven't run one in a few years. Link g4+ doesn't even use the IPS. As long as everything works great you won't notice any difference.

 

[Misterflipster]

Mostly likely yes but once the throttle plate goes that far a lot of the times you can often feel them slightly catch inside the throttle body. I think this would also change the amount of air that the factory figured in for their factory settings like the biss adjustments etc.

I’m just trying to make sure everything is correct. It would be the tps adjustment and idle switch inside the tps that I think would suffer most due to the missing sas. I know you can simulate it with link but I feel that’s lazy and it should be correctly set.


Also did you see if you have a fuel pressure regulator with a gauge? Is it set to 43psi?

-Daniel

I did not see a fuel pressure regular gauge

 

[Vegas Smith]

So your fuel pressure is likely sky-high so add that to a long list of shit that's wrong with the car.

 

[AWD-Tony]

On a 1g tb, the plate does not go past center with the ips removed. It actually rests slightly angled compared to the body.

OP, did you do anything else when you installed the block off plate, anything? And did you replace the throttle body gaskets?

 

[Misterflipster]

On a 1g tb, the plate does not go past center with the ips removed. It actually rests slightly angled compared to the body.

OP, did you do anything else when you installed the block off plate, anything? And did you replace the throttle body gaskets?

Nope, put it back exactly as i found it. Including with the gasket, which was in good shape, no tears as all.

 

[steve]

The 1G IPS is the equivalent of the 2G SAS it keeps the throttle butterfly plate from binding in the throttle bore and provide the throttle closed switch. A minor mis-adjustment can cause the butterfly to be cracked open enough for totally ruin the idle or cause it to stick.

An earlier log showed that the throttle did close far enough to trigger the 2G IPS but as soon as it was started it stopped working.

In the hot start log you can see DSMLinks' anti-flood code in operation where is shuts off the injectors when the TPS is 100% and you're cranking. you can also see that the TPS isn't returning to 0% and the simulated IPS doesn't close consistently. This in addition to the noted issues of the Injector global being 0 and the direct access maps being off, etc.

I'm going to step out because it's clear there are too many cooks in the kitchen.

 

[Misterflipster]

The 1G IPS is the equivalent of the 2G SAS it keeps the throttle butterfly plate from binding in the throttle bore and provide the throttle closed switch. A minor mis-adjustment can cause the butterfly to be cracked open enough for totally ruin the idle or cause it to stick.

An earlier log showed that the throttle did close far enough to trigger the 2G IPS but as soon as it was started it stopped working.

In the hot start log you can see DSMLinks' anti-flood code in operation where is shuts off the injectors when the TPS is 100% and you're cranking. you can also see that the TPS isn't returning to 0% and the simulated IPS doesn't close consistently. This in addition to the noted issues of the Injector global being 0 and the direct access maps being off, etc.

I'm going to step out because it's clear there are too many cooks in the kitchen.

Before you leave, i have a question....do you think it would just be simpler to upgrade the throttle body to the billet 90mm one? Or am i better sticking with this stock one?

 

[steve]

It might be better than what you have, but I'm not a fan, because there seems to be a wide range in quality and it's hard to know until you get it. There are many threads on the site related to issues trying to use a S90 TB. Tons of good info from searching here or using google to search the site.

 

[enriquez2000]

Drop it off at my house... give me a weekend with it...

Im sure youre far from Colorado but Im always willing to help

Definitely too many things going on... you need to reset your ecmlink to whats been said.

You need to go over your sensors for any missing pieces to your puzzle and make sure everything is reading and logging including your MAP and IAT for speed density.

Boost leak boost leak boost leak.... even on my car that im meticulous about I found several leaks on my last test.. from injector seals to BOV itself... anything rubber or gasket is a potential leak as well as any bolt not torqued correctly

You need to comb over everything....

Or bring it to one of us not the hackjob you brought it to.

Once its mechanically sound a remote tune can be done by any of our well respected members that offer that

 

[Misterflipster]

Drop it off at my house... give me a weekend with it...

Im sure youre far from Colorado but Im always willing to help

Definitely too many things going on... you need to reset your ecmlink to whats been said.

You need to go over your sensors for any missing pieces to your puzzle and make sure everything is reading and logging including your MAP and IAT for speed density.

Boost leak boost leak boost leak.... even on my car that im meticulous about I found several leaks on my last test.. from injector seals to BOV itself... anything rubber or gasket is a potential leak as well as any bolt not torqued correctly

You need to comb over everything....

Or bring it to one of us not the hackjob you brought it to.

Once its mechanically sound a remote tune can be done by any of our well respected members that offer that

Im in sioux falls sd...i really wish i could drop it off and even work on it (to learn more with how this specific car is set up) yeah its a 10hr drive to colorado and i have no trailer/transportation options unless a spend good money to have a transporter take it

In the morning its a start to my weekend. I'll be making those makeshift connectors to the turbo and buying a compressor to start looking for boost leaks.

 

[enriquez2000]

Im in sioux falls sd...i really wish i could drop it off and even work on it (to learn more with how this specific car is set up) yeah its a 10hr drive to colorado and i have no trailer/transportation options unless a spend good money to have a transporter take it

In the morning its a start to my weekend. I'll be making those makeshift connectors to the turbo and buying a compressor to start looking for boost leaks.

Offer stands if you want to make the trip... I have room currently for a car.

Button your car up and then we can help on the tuning side. Cant tune without a solid base to start

 

[Misterflipster]

Offer stands if you want to make the trip... I have room currently for a car.

Button your car up and then we can help on the tuning side. Cant tune without a solid base to start

I appreciate the offer, let me talk to a guy and see how much it would cost, which city is it?

 

[enriquez2000]

I appreciate the offer, let me talk to a guy and see how much it would cost, which city is it?

Im in fort collins

If you can figure it out yourself its a good learning opportunity... but willing to dive in if you cant. Love seeing these cars on the road

 

[Misterflipster]

Im in fort collins

If you can figure it out yourself its a good learning opportunity... but willing to dive in if you cant. Love seeing these cars on the road

For having a good hand id pay good $$$ to have one of you guys drive to me and show me whats what, not even kidding smh...i literally just paid that shop 600 bucks to put in a MAP sensor and scratch their heads...then give me the car back just as messed up as it arrived basically

 

[enriquez2000]

For having a good hand id pay good $$$ to have one of you guys drive to me and show me whats what, not even kidding smh...i literally just paid that shop 600 bucks to put in a MAP sensor and scratch their heads...then give me the car back just as messed up as it arrived basically

If I didnt have kids and needed a getaway id go!

 

[Misterflipster]

If I didnt have kids and needed a getaway id go!

I'll be looking into the costs

 

[Justin DuBois]

This must be what its like to read a bromance novel

 

[Misterflipster]

This must be what its like to read a bromance novel

Desperate times call for desperate measures bro

 

[Misterflipster]

Im in fort collins

If you can figure it out yourself its a good learning opportunity... but willing to dive in if you cant. Love seeing these cars on the road

Yeah its 900 bucks to tow it to ya 1 way cant do that sadly

 

[steve]

$900 would go a long way towards a nice tool set and parts.

Read up on the process, check the VFAQ, watch the YouTube Videos and ask questions.
It's a lot scarier before hand than actually doing it.