FAILED SMOG (CA) Noooooooo!

[jgodinez302]

So condensed back story.....
I got a progect Eclipse from a buddy who had it sitting since 08, stagnant and not driven. Prior to sitting there, the car did pass smog in 08. Car has 220k miles on it, did some regular maintenance, replaced valve cover gasket (including plug gaskets), replaced spark plugs, flushed radiator, changed oil/filter, new air filter and recently replaced the fuel filter (after failing smog). Cars seems to run fairly well for the amount of mileage IMO. So went to get it smogged and failed, here are the results.....

Idle (846RPM) %CO2 Measured/12.4 %O2 Measured/3.0 HC Max=100 Measured/590 CO Max=1.00 Measured/0.37

2500 RPM %CO2 Measured/14.2 %O2 Measured/0.0 HC Max=100 Measured/27 CO Max=1.00 Measured/0.02

So due to the High amount of HC at Idle i measured well beyond Gross Polluter standards. After the fact is when i changed the fuel filter and i recently added a bottle of Smog Pass solution to help clean the injectors, etc. I have yet to take it back to get re-smogged but i was wondering if anyone had a better idea of what could be the problem by looking at these numbers? I've read a number of things such as it sounds like it's running "lean". It seems to be getting spark from the wires with no issues. The smog tech suggested checking the compression on the cylinders but i'm not convinced that's the problem if it passed previously and just sat there too long. Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thank in advance.

 

[xXEclipse]

Stop wasting money fixing it and pay to "get it passed"

 

[jgodinez302]

LoL yeah well i wouldn't call it waste, everything done so far is pretty much regular maintenance. But it will be passed one way or another. Just want to make sure it's running well to last me a little before i have to get another engine.

 

[Demon33]

Hydrocarbons are basically unburned fuel in the exhaust. I had a similar problem with high hydrocarbons in my '90 AWD that had 175k miles on the clock. My smog guy was kind enough to let me use the gas analyzer to check the exhaust after each correction I made. I replaced the spark plugs, blocked off the EGR, disconnected the evap canister, vented the PCV valve to atmosphere, removed the valve cover breather hose from the intake pipe, switched to e85 fuel, tried different timing values, leaned it out and switched back to the stock O2 sensor (was simulating O2 with my wideband) to no avail. None of it made me pass. Hydrocarbons at idle were still too high. Then I remembered that I had put in HKS 264/272 cams a couple of years back. Changed those back to the stock cams and what do you know, I passed! I guess the increased overlap of the HKS cams was causing the high HC values.

A month or two afterwards, I had to pull the head to replace the head gasket because it was leaking between cylinders 3 and 4. The leakdown test also indicated that all exhaust valves were leaking due to worn valve guides). This got me thinking about the smog issue. I believe that the leaking valves, along with the cam overlap, played a role in me not being able to pass smog. I suspected that because the valves weren't sealing, raw fuel was leaking into the exhaust during the compressing stroke, elevating my hydrocarbon levels. I don't have a way to verify this, but that's what I think.

 

[96 420a-t]

You are obviously runnin way rich. What mods do you have?

 

['97boostinGST]

How long did you run the car before getting smog after sitting for over 3 years?

 

[e30_fiend]

I was about to ask the same question. It seems to me like you probably drove it from your house straight to the smog place and tested it. The motor doesn't only have to be at operating temp, the exhaust has to be REALLY hot. Next time you go, run the hell out of the car before you take it. You want to hear the exhaust ticking when it turns off. Also a trick I use is to never turn the car off when I get there.

Hth


Taylor

 

[jgodinez302]

You are obviously runnin way rich. What mods do you have?

Hahaha No mods, just plain stock until i get the engine running right.

How long did you run the car before getting smog after sitting for over 3 years?

Yeah essentially i haven't put many miles on it prior to taking it to get smogged. Ive been running it a lot more lately, after the last battery disconnection i'm going on like 60 miles or so but it still seems to be running pretty rough at idle, possible misfire. When it's driving it's fine. I think it's past the point of just needing to be hot for smog, i think there maybe something else wrong. If i get a hold of an ODB reader, will i get anything returned even though i have no check engine lights?

 

[black_gst]

Stop wasting money fixing it and pay to "get it passed"

too late now, most places wont touch a car that already failed

 

[Demon33]

Perform a leak down test on each cylinder to see if you've got any leaks (pressure loss) at the intake or exhaust valves as well as the head gasket and piston rings.

 

[jgodinez302]

Perform a leak down test on each cylinder to see if you've got any leaks (pressure loss) at the intake or exhaust valves as well as the head gasket and piston rings.

I think that'll be the next step. Low on the funds for the side project now but i need to find a shop to do so for me. Everything else seems to pass with flying colors, it's just the high HC content. Hopefully it wont be anything serious. Just need it to pass to keep me going for a little till i can get an engine with fewer miles or a rebuilt.

 

[donniekak]

Fresh gas, new plugs, an o2 sensor, and boost leak test should have you passing.

 

[Demon33]

I bought a cheap Harbor Freight leak down tester that work great. Their only drawback is that the crappy color-coded gauge (green, yellow, red) that indicates low, medium, or high pressure loss only goes to about 15 psi max. Not much pressure for testing a cylinder for leaks and also the colors don't equate to any specific pressure loss percentage. I removed the gauge and replaced it with regular 100 psi pressure gauge. This allows me to pressurize the cylinder to 100 psi and therefore, any pressure loss will show up as a percentage- i.e. 90 psi reading = 10% loss, 75 psi reading = 25% loss, etc.

 

[jgodinez302]

I bought a cheap Harbor Freight leak down tester that work great. Their only drawback is that the crappy color-coded gauge (green, yellow, red) that indicates low, medium, or high pressure loss only goes to about 15 psi max. Not much pressure for testing a cylinder for leaks and also the colors don't equate to any specific pressure loss percentage. I removed the gauge and replaced it with regular 100 psi pressure gauge. This allows me to pressurize the cylinder to 100 psi and therefore, any pressure loss will show up as a percentage- i.e. 90 psi reading = 10% loss, 75 psi reading = 25% loss, etc.

Thanks for the help (everyone)!. I will get what i need to test the pressure in the cylinders and vales, and let you guys know what i find. If pressure seems ok i guess the next step will be to check the O2 sensors and EGR?

 

[Demon33]

Fresh gas, new plugs, an o2 sensor, and boost leak test should have you passing.

+1 on the O2 sensor. Needs to be working properly to maintain proper air-fuel ratios during closed loop operation. This also helps the catalytic converter to do its thing properly.

EGR is for reducing/controlling NOx emission, not hydrocarbons.

 

[jgodinez302]

+1 on the O2 sensor. Needs to be working properly to maintain proper air-fuel ratios during closed loop operation. This also helps the catalytic converter to do its thing properly.

EGR is for reducing/controlling NOx emission, not hydrocarbons.

Ok good. So as far as the 02 sensor, would that be both the upstream and downstream sensors?

 

[Demon33]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, as I have a '90 with only 1 O2 sensor, but I think you want to check or replace the upstream sensor. The downstream sensor is for monitoring the performance/efficiency of the catalytic converter.

 

[jgodinez302]

Ok so i did a little more inspecting today after driving the car further and started hearing some progressively worse hissing noises from underneath the car. Turns out there is a broken vacuum hoses of some kind in the front right (passenger) fender of the car. As it turns out it's a big mess down there as it looks it got in a little bit of a crash. Problem is, i have no idea what i'm looking at and i couldn't find anything that looked similar on the internet. So i believe this may be my problem in passing emissions...... can anyone tell me what this set up is in front of the passenger side wheel well (behind the front bumper)? It looks like a palm sized plastic canister with at least 3 hoses going in/coming out. It also appears to be broken in half and there's a tiny little metal prong on the inside that can be depressed.....

(i apologize for the pic details, my camera isnt the greatest)
Eclipse - Imgur

 

[dooblea]

looks as though it is some sort of evap emmissions part. look for one in your local salvage yard

 

[jgodinez302]

looks as though it is some sort of evap emmissions part. look for one in your local salvage yard

Yeah that's what i'm thinking too, i was scouring the shops online just to see what the general price range was and what it's called so i can sound like i know what i'm talking about but found nothing that looks remotely close to it.

i'm thinking they may be "Evaporative emission purge and ventilation solenoid" can anyone confirm or deny this and would these lead to problems with high HC content, running rich/lean?

 

[jgodinez302]

Ok another person helped me out and i found that one of the pieces that's broken is an LDP..... leak detection pump! Except i'm having a heck of a time finding one used, i can go through the dealer but i hear it's close to $200. Anyone have one they can spare or sell at a reasonable price? I would greatly appreciate it

 

[jgodinez302]

Ok so i did a little more inspecting today after driving the car further and started hearing some progressively worse hissing noises from underneath the car. Turns out there is a broken vacuum hoses of some kind in the front right (passenger) fender of the car. As it turns out it's a big mess down there as it looks it got in a little bit of a crash. Problem is, i have no idea what i'm looking at and i couldn't find anything that looked similar on the internet. So i believe this may be my problem in passing emissions...... can anyone tell me what this set up is in front of the passenger side wheel well (behind the front bumper)? It looks like a palm sized plastic canister with at least 3 hoses going in/coming out. It also appears to be broken in half and there's a tiny little metal prong on the inside that can be depressed.....

(i apologize for the pic details, my camera isnt the greatest)
Eclipse - Imgur

So after scouring multiple junkyards out here i was finally able to find a replacement LDP in tact. I will be replacing it as soon as i get home and hopefully smooth out the rough idle and in turn get it to pass smog. *keeping fingers crossed* it seems though as that broken Vac hose on the LDP was causing the problem IMO. Maybe sucking in too much air and not burning fuel properly in one of the cylinders? From what i can make out of the emissions diagram, one of those hoses is indirectly going to the TB. But i'm not sure, not really experienced when it comes to cars. regardless, i'll post results when I'm done in case anyone is still following or curious as to the solution or further problem