evo3 16g turbine wheel

[MaxGdsm]

started to take apart my turbo( evoIII 16g) 49178-01470 - EVO III 16G

my turbine wheel outer edges are all eaten up. So i need a new one. can i buy any 16g turbine wheel or does it have to be specific to a evo3 16g?

is there any way to make sure i am getting the correct wheel if there is a difference?

I am in the process of buying a 16g turbine and compressor wheel set but I need to make sure they will fit my setup and utilize the evo3 advantages if any.

 

[toofast82]

you will need the tdo5h turbine wheel for an evo3

 

[e85_4g63]

Here's the turbine wheel: Forced Performance Turbochargers: Mitsubishi Turbine Wheels

Compressor wheel: Forced Performance Turbochargers: Mitsubishi Compressor Wheels

Turbine Housing: Forced Performance Turbochargers: Mitsubishi Turbine Housings - DSM Style

If your interested, here's an entirely new CHRA (turbo with no housings): Forced Performance Turbochargers: Mitsubishi Evo III 16g CHRA

 

[JusMX141]

There are three different 16G compressor wheels:

Small 16G: 1.830" Inducer, 2.365" Exducer
Big 16G: 1.892" Inducer, 2.680" Exducer
Evo III 16G: 1.902" Inducer, 2.680" Exducer

You MUST have the correct compressor wheel to fit your cover or it will not work. Chances are if it's labeled as a "16G" compressor, it's a Small 16G wheel that will be far too small for your Evo III 16G.

All three 16G turbos that are available in a DSM housing use the same TD05H turbine wheel.

 

[MaxGdsm]

you guys rock! all good info. I just need the turbine wheel so I should be good then buying the one Im looking at. Now will I need to balance things or will it be okay to buy this turbine wheel and throw it on there and go, also the turbo is in good shape minus this wheel so do i need a rebuild kit just to take the turbo apart to replace the turbine wheel?

 

[JusMX141]

Most Mitsu turbos are component-balanced, meaning the parts are balanced individually to speed assembly at the factory. Rightfully, you can swap another pre-balanced TD05H turbine in it's place and it would still be in the same "acceptable" balance tolerance that existed before you disassembled it.

If you want to step it up a bit, have the entire rotating assembly balanced to guarantee perfect operation throughout the turbo's operation. Perfect balance often results in quicker spool and higher overall RPM achieved. Think of a turbo like an engine: most stock engines aren't balanced and run just fine for hundreds of thousands of miles, but if you build the engine you and have a machine shop balance the rotating assembly you'll be rewarded with a smoother-revving and more powerful engine.

The parts a turbo shop will need in order to balance your turbo are:
- Turbine shaft
- Thrust collar
- Compressor seal collar
- Compressor wheel
- Locknut

A rebuild kit would be a good idea....tearing a turbo down this far without changing at least the turbine seal and journal bearings would be like tearing an engine down to install new pistons but assembling it with the old rings and bearings.

 

[keltalon]

you guys rock! all good info. I just need the turbine wheel so I should be good then buying the one Im looking at. Now will I need to balance things or will it be okay to buy this turbine wheel and throw it on there and go, also the turbo is in good shape minus this wheel so do i need a rebuild kit just to take the turbo apart to replace the turbine wheel?

Despite the fact that most components are balanced you will need to get the compressor wheel and the tubine wheel spin balance together cost about 65 dollars. The wheels will then be marked and sent back to you. When you put it together make sure you align the marks or it will cause you problems down the road trust me!

 

[JusMX141]

Despite the fact that most components are balanced you will need to get the compressor wheel and the tubine wheel spin balance together cost about 65 dollars. The wheels will then be marked and sent back to you. When you put it together make sure you align the marks or it will cause you problems down the road trust me!

Care to enlighten us?

If a Mitsu turbo is component-balanced from the factory and they provide years of trouble-free operation, why would it prompt the need to have the entire rotating assembly balanced when changing wheels?

 

[MaxGdsm]

Yeah, I am not disputing anyones knowledge, but I have heard they are balanced and good to go. But I have heard several people say that you still want to balance it. experienced opinions welcome, It would be nice to clear this up.

oh yeah and any good sites for reasonably priced rebuild kits? i have looked around on the forums and they are all over 100$ and I know I saw one a while back for like 70-80$. this project is getting expensive fast, but I did get the turbo for free. Also Ive heard the 18g compressor fits right on the evo3, what are the benefits and negs, and is it worth it. My goals are a reliable daily 300hp crank or wheel hp depending on which is more reliable.

 

[toofast82]

Yeah, I am not disputing anyones knowledge, but I have heard they are balanced and good to go. But I have heard several people say that you still want to balance it. experienced opinions welcome, It would be nice to clear this up.

oh yeah and any good sites for reasonably priced rebuild kits? i have looked around on the forums and they are all over 100$ and I know I saw one a while back for like 70-80$. this project is getting expensive fast, but I did get the turbo for free. Also Ive heard the 18g compressor fits right on the evo3, what are the benefits and negs, and is it worth it. My goals are a reliable daily 300hp crank or wheel hp depending on which is more reliable.

The 18g compressor has a slightly larger compressor inducer. You will still need some machining of the compressor cover to use the 18g wheel. The e316g compressor is plenty to achieve your 300whp goal and much more!
MHI wheels are component-balanced like jusmx41 said, therefore further balancing is not necessary. Some turbo rebuild shops will still recommend to balance them together as well for extreme use. Like jusmx41 said again, this may result in slightly better spool and high rpm performance, but may not be worth it at least imho. mhi's have proven to last with just the component-balancing.
If your current e316g compressor wheel is in good condition and free of any chips, nicks,etc. than you should be good with that one. And yes you will need a rebuild kit. It appears you are planning on doing this yourself. Jusmx41 did a great writeup on this site on rebuilding tdo5/6 turbos.

 

[MaxGdsm]

yeah I saw that write up, Ill be using it when I do the refurb on the turbo. I just need to find a rebuild kit that has everything i need at a reasonable price. I know it may sound like im whining but Im really on a budget so saving 20$ here and there can really add up for me.

 

[pboglio]

I'm gonna ask a stupid question, but what caused the turbine wheel to get damaged?

 

[keltalon]

Care to enlighten us?

If a Mitsu turbo is component-balanced from the factory and they provide years of trouble-free operation, why would it prompt the need to have the entire rotating assembly balanced when changing wheels?

Let me make this clear I am not going to get into a forum debate about this matter, with that being said let discuss it I have had my share of failed 14b's 16g's Evo III16g's and 20g's. I would alway buy a new turbine wheel and compressor wheel thinking that since they are new and balanced then I would be okay but I was wrong they kept failing, some faster than others. I just could not understand why Until one day I had a conversation with a very reputable turbo rebuild shop They told me and I quote " Your turbo needs to be balance if
(1) Neither of the wheels (compressor and/or turbine) have touched or rubbed the housings
(2) There are no worn, chipped, or bent fins on either of the wheels
(3) You were careful to mark the position of the wheels in relationship to each other prior to disassembly and rebuilding, and then realigned these marks upon reassembly" Come to find out the latter was my problem. I would always purchase the wheel and turbine shaft/wheel separte. They told me that since these turbos spin at a very high rate of speed and where not balanced as a unit, that they needed to be spin balanced on a turbo balancer to ensure true, no vibration balance if not the turbo would have a very short life span because the vibration would not allow the journal bearings to keep a consistant oil film between the bearing and the shaft therefore eventually wearing the bearing out. So I let them balance the last mitsu turbo I ran on my car and it never failed or showed signs of failing. All I could say, after 4 turbo failures is !@#$. When I upgraded the turbo I could sell a healthy turbo to another member knowing they was getting a good turbo

give them a call and ask whatever concerns you about your rebuild trust me they are good!!!
Turbo Balancing

 

[DSM_Zak]

I know this is a completly different subject, but I can mostly agree with that last statement. Its just like balancing tires. I work at Les Schwab and although when fixing a flat, you cark where the tire is lined up with the valve stem. Granted after you put it back on it not has ATLEAST .50oz difference with the patch being inside the tire. Hence the tire needing to be rebalanced. I do know if you are not careful with the turbo when taking it apart, a good knick or ding on any part of the rotation assembly can cause it to be unbalanced. Its better safe than sorry, why waste money on a rebuild kit to have it fail later down the road? Its an extra piece of mind.

 

[MaxGdsm]

dont know, I got the parts car for free, it had oil all over the place under the hood and alot puddled in cylinder 4 around spark plug. There is alot of oil in the exhaust and intake track as well. But the wheels spin fine, no slop or play so I was just going to port the turbo and wastegate area when i took off the exhaust housing to find a nasty little surprise. All the outside edges of the blades were shredded up. BUt the inside of the exhaust housing is flawless no scrapes, I figured it would be boogered up if something went through there.

Damn, I was really excited to get this turbo and now its adding up, but I am one to do things right so i dont have to worry. I might just find a local shop to balance it once I rebuild it, or do you balance it first then rebuild with the kit?

 

[JusMX141]

give them a call and ask whatever concerns you about your rebuild trust me they are good!!!
Turbo Balancing

I know Jim and Gerry quite well- they're one of many suppliers I buy parts from on a regular basis.

Although it's been explained to me by a few different turbo suppliers that re-balancing an already-balanced compressor wheel and turbine wheel as an assembly is a wasted step unless you're compensating for the thrust collar or compressor locknut, and most modern compressor locknuts are 12-point instead of 6-point to be better-balanced.

You believe what you want, I'll believe what I've experienced. I truly feel that balance is more imperative for overall turbo performance than longevity. My buddy's Frank 5 20G somehow ate about half of one of the compressor fins about 1k after we installed it on his car. That was about 9k ago, and that turbo still boosts hard with no shaft play at all. Trust me- that giant 60-trim Garrett compressor wheel missing half of one fin is putting alot more stress on the journal bearings than a slightly off-sync Evo III 16G wheel, and it's still kicking. If what you're telling me is true, that turbo should've blown instantly.

If the 16G's are balanced as a complete assembly from the factory, where are the alignment marks? The older Holsets were balanced as a rotating assembly from the factory and had alignment grooves in the turbine shaft and compressor wheel. Mitsubishi must be magicians in order to make these marks disappear even on new turbos.

All the outside edges of the blades were shredded up. BUt the inside of the exhaust housing is flawless no scrapes, I figured it would be boogered up if something went through there.

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Common either on turbos that were Anti-Lagged to death or had something pass through the turbine housing....usually chunks from a failing turbine housing on older 14B's, or even an EGT probe. This type of damage is also a sign of turbo overspin.

Damn, I was really excited to get this turbo and now its adding up, but I am one to do things right so i dont have to worry. I might just find a local shop to balance it once I rebuild it, or do you balance it first then rebuild with the kit?

If you're planning on having it balanced, wait until you get the parts and ship the compressor and thrust collars from the new kit with it.....although I'm betting it's going to come back with very little correction if any.

 

[pboglio]

I don't know how people do it, but after 8 different turbos (all upgrades) I never once tossed a wheel.

This is a good thread though, I'm thinking of having a backup turbine wheel clipped for a little experimentation.

 

[keltalon]

I know Jim and Gerry quite well- they're one of many suppliers I buy parts from on a regular basis.

Although it's been explained to me by a few different turbo suppliers that re-balancing an already-balanced compressor wheel and turbine wheel as an assembly is a wasted step unless you're compensating for the thrust collar or compressor locknut, and most modern compressor locknuts are 12-point instead of 6-point to be better-balanced.

You believe what you want, I'll believe what I've experienced. I truly feel that balance is more imperative for overall turbo performance than longevity. My buddy's Frank 5 20G somehow ate about half of one of the compressor fins about 1k after we installed it on his car. That was about 9k ago, and that turbo still boosts hard with no shaft play at all. Trust me- that giant 60-trim Garrett compressor wheel missing half of one fin is putting alot more stress on the journal bearings than a slightly off-sync Evo III 16G wheel, and it's still kicking. If what you're telling me is true, that turbo should've blown instantly.

If the 16G's are balanced as a complete assembly from the factory, where are the alignment marks? The older Holsets were balanced as a rotating assembly from the factory and had alignment grooves in the turbine shaft and compressor wheel. Mitsubishi must be magicians in order to make these marks disappear even on new turbos.



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Common either on turbos that were Anti-Lagged to death or had something pass through the turbine housing....usually chunks from a failing turbine housing on older 14B's, or even an EGT probe. This type of damage is also a sign of turbo overspin.


If you're planning on having it balanced, wait until you get the parts and ship the compressor and thrust collars from the new kit with it.....although I'm betting it's going to come back with very little correction if any.

Trust me they have them!

 

[MaxGdsm]

heres my wheel

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and this is the reason I found out the wheel was in bad shape, my newly ported turbo, wastegate and exhaust manny.

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also I didnt want this to be a debate so lets try to keep it nice like i has been so far. I appreciate the info, I still havent made up my mind yet. The thing is I cant afford this turbo to shit on me so I might just have to wait until i can afford the rebuild kit and balancing job.

 

[keltalon]

heres my wheel

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and this is the reason I found out the wheel was in bad shape, my newly ported turbo, wastegate and exhaust manny.

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also I didnt want this to be a debate so lets try to keep it nice like i has been so far. I appreciate the info, I still havent made up my mind yet. The thing is I cant afford this turbo to shit on me so I might just have to wait until i can afford the rebuild kit and balancing job.

Port work looks good

 

[sleestack]

Most Mitsu turbos are component-balanced, meaning the parts are balanced individually to speed assembly at the factory.

Is this an assumption?

 

[toofast82]

Is this an assumption?

They are definitely component balanced, thats for sure. It sounds like a pretty good reason for doing it as well

 

[JusMX141]

Is this an assumption?

Not at all.

Have any input you'd like to give in order to prove otherwise?

Am I right in believing perfect balance is more important to turbo operation than reliability? I was always curious of this as I've had some 16G's pass through my shop that had zero shaft play but were missing nearly every compressor blade and still generated boost just fine.

 

[sleestack]

Care to enlighten us?

If a Mitsu turbo is component-balanced from the factory and they provide years of trouble-free operation, why would it prompt the need to have the entire rotating assembly balanced when changing wheels?

The point I was attempting to make is that boxed and complete Mitsu are component and assy balanced, not just component balanced. Just take a look at the shaft nuts. I have about 200 1470's out there on a a pallet, most of them have some material removed from the shaft nut. This indicates a assy balance.

 

[JusMX141]

What about turbos that do not have grinding done on the shaft nut- can you confirm that those turbos are component-balanced only?