evo 3 16g vs new fp 18g

[Black_Bullet]

I would also, I dont think its worth the upgrade from a 16g to this turbo. Its a little more than a 16g so it may be worth it over the evo if its your first upgrade. The evo 16g can hit 400whp easy on race or e85 and has been proven to break 450whp.

You make it sound to easy, look at the dyno sheets on this website with those using a 16g, more than half are under 300whp.

Yea this is what appeals to me. Since the turbine flows more. Then the overall VE goes up. So, there is more power per psi of boost. This is what's good for pump gas setups. Low boost, but still eeking out the higher hp numbers. You have to really yank on the boost of a evo3 16g to get it to flow enough for 375whp. . . at boostlevels that yield pump gas impractical w/out some sort of 'injection'. That's the point of having the more efficient 18G compressor (as shown on the first page w/ the compressor map), and by the higher flowing turbine as shown on the second page w/ the link to the dyno run.

Concerning streetability: Look at the rpm difference on the dynorun vs. a *SMALL* 16G. There's about 500 rpms difference on the hp curve. Then the 18g just keeps pulling MUCH higher for MUCH longer. . .

What else do you all want? The evo3 16g was "new" at one point too. . .

I wasnt referring to the spool times, the spool time looks great on this 18g.
If i was coming off my 14b id skip the 16g and go to this turbo for sure.
But I was speaking for ppl like me who already have 16gs who arent building a race car and just want the most out of a pump gas set up; would this new 18g be worth the money.
For instance, id likely not run more than 23psi, is the price tag of this 18g worth the difference between whatever power it makes over the evo3 at 23psi and under to make someone want to ditch their evo3s to get it....
Thats my question, needs more dyno sheets and 1320 times for this to really get selling... I understand it can make a huge amount more in the higher rpms/ higher boost levels but if i wanted serious power id skip this turbo.

The EVO III is proven for years and years. The sticker price for the 18G looks great, but I would mug my neighbor and upgrade to a FP3052 BB Series if I would to upgrade.
Now if you're upgrading for a 14b or t25 go ahead with the 'new' 18G.
PS: On the FP site did you guys notice the "01470" stamp on on the 'new' 18G compressor housing? ahh..the old new EVO III 16 compressor

Exactly...

 

[dsm-onster]

AH! Considering the dyno of the small 16g vs. the 18g, where a small 16g has the exact same turbine as an evo3 16g, you see a 10% increase in peak hp and more power everywhere past around 4K. The small 16g is absolutely not maxed out at this power level. So, you cannot say that an evo3 would do better than a small 16g at this level. In fact, it doesn't. My 18g w/ the same 16g hotside did no better than my small 16g at that level. The benefit of the dyno is the fact that you can see that swapping in this 18g vs. an evo3 will yield a significant gain. The dyno graph shows that it out flowed a tdo5h turbine in a 7cm^2 turbine housing. This means that at the same psi it would out flow an evo3. It wasn't the compressor efficiency of the 18G that caused it to out flow the small16G. I'm sure you may need more proof. But there's proof right there that if an evo3 is flowing 350hp, then swapping an 18g w/ this turbine atleast will show a 10% percent gain or around 35 more whp!

It's been proven that the 18g compressor can out flow an evo3 16g compressor. And the dyno graph verifies that the td06sl out flows a td05h turbine. You will see a significant increase in power. Also, look at the spool! I've seen evo3 16gs spool at the same rate as that 18g.

You'r e right there needs to be more. But who's to doubt the likelyhoods except for those that won't try. I think it is a great upgrade for the 14b guys or the small16g guys. If you have an evo3 16g (n fact ANY 16G), you can sell it for $300+ and in reality pay only $300 at the most for a 10-15% increase in power at the same boost! Nevermind, the potential. Guys pay this much for a SMIM or set of cams to get such a gain! Sounds great to me! I may just do this!!!

. . . I so sound like an FP salesman. . . To think, I don't really care for their overinflated turbos. . .

 

[DSMunknown]

. . . I so sound like an FP salesman. . . To think, I don't really care for their overinflated turbos. . .

Ah, good thing. 'Cause I just picked up a used T28, sucka!

 

[92awddsm]

There are mitsu turbo's that are not watercooled... some big16's and 18g's come in dry housings.




uh no, pickup a non-turbo water pipe that has no water lines on it, this would be a much cleaner install.

Im still waiting on a reply to my email, so if anyone picks up a fp18g and finds out if its watercooled or not, post it up.

UMMMM, 2g n/t water pipe is from a 420a and wont work. Neither will a 1g water pipe. Maybe he is lucky enough to know someone in Europe that can get their hands on a 2g 4g63 n/t waterpipe but it is unlikely.

 

[chavez408]

haha someone buy it and show us some time slips and more dyno runs! I might just do it if the price is right (around xmas). I am willing to take it for the team if it will bolt up to my evo mani, witch im sure it will.

 

[Black_Bullet]

AH! Considering the dyno of the small 16g vs. the 18g, where a small 16g has the exact same turbine as an evo3 16g, you see a 10% increase in peak hp and more power everywhere past around 4K. The small 16g is absolutely not maxed out at this power level. So, you cannot say that an evo3 would do better than a small 16g at this level. In fact, it doesn't. My 18g w/ the same 16g hotside did no better than my small 16g at that level. The benefit of the dyno is the fact that you can see that swapping in this 18g vs. an evo3 will yield a significant gain. The dyno graph shows that it out flowed a tdo5h turbine in a 7cm^2 turbine housing. This means that at the same psi it would out flow an evo3. It wasn't the compressor efficiency of the 18G that caused it to out flow the small16G. I'm sure you may need more proof. But there's proof right there that if an evo3 is flowing 350hp, then swapping an 18g w/ this turbine atleast will show a 10% percent gain or around 35 more whp!

It's been proven that the 18g compressor can out flow an evo3 16g compressor. And the dyno graph verifies that the td06sl out flows a td05h turbine. You will see a significant increase in power. Also, look at the spool! I've seen evo3 16gs spool at the same rate as that 18g.

You'r e right there needs to be more. But who's to doubt the likelyhoods except for those that won't try. I think it is a great upgrade for the 14b guys or the small16g guys. If you have an evo3 16g (n fact ANY 16G), you can sell it for $300+ and in reality pay only $300 at the most for a 10-15% increase in power at the same boost! Nevermind, the potential. Guys pay this much for a SMIM or set of cams to get such a gain! Sounds great to me! I may just do this!!!

. . . I so sound like an FP salesman. . . To think, I don't really care for their overinflated turbos. . .

You have many valid points dont get me wrong, this 18g looks awsome and is exactly what I want out of a turbo on this car. Your idea of selling the 16g and paying 300 for it is feasable. I suppose 25-35whp would be worth the effort; but for me if my evo3 was going bad and needed to be replaced anyways then yea i can see it happining. Maybe one day and hopefully prices for this new turbo will be lower by then.

UMMMM, 2g n/t water pipe is from a 420a and wont work. Neither will a 1g water pipe. Maybe he is lucky enough to know someone in Europe that can get their hands on a 2g 4g63 n/t waterpipe but it is unlikely.

You sure? On my buddies old gsx all we needed was the n/t water pipe for 89-94 1gs...

 

[dsm-onster]

haha someone buy it and show us some time slips and more dyno runs! I might just do it if the price is right (around xmas). I am willing to take it for the team if it will bolt up to my evo mani, witch im sure it will.

I've decided to get it, . My brother has an automatic AWD (w/ the tiny 13g and 390s). . . small16Gs and automatics are good. So he's going to buy me this 18g and I'm going to give him my small 16g w/ 15K miles, my MAFT w/ 450s, drawthrough piping, install, and tune it for him. He needs to save a little cash .

So we'll definately do some back to back testing w/ a little more demand from a small 16G. This should give us a better idea about what this 18g will do vs the 16g turbos. . . In a genaral sense at least.

 

[chavez408]

I've decided to get it, . My brother has an automatic AWD (w/ the tiny 13g and 390s). . . small16Gs and automatics are good. So he's going to buy me this 18g and I'm going to give him my small 16g w/ 15K miles, my MAFT w/ 450s, drawthrough piping, install, and tune it for him. He needs to save a little cash .

So we'll definately do some back to back testing w/ a little more demand from a small 16G. This should give us a better idea about what this 18g will do vs the 16g turbos. . . In a genaral sense at least.

oh nice how much did you get it for in total? im going to see if i can get the cash to get this tubo asap and see what it can do

 

[chavez408]

I've decided to get it, . My brother has an automatic AWD (w/ the tiny 13g and 390s). . . small16Gs and automatics are good. So he's going to buy me this 18g and I'm going to give him my small 16g w/ 15K miles, my MAFT w/ 450s, drawthrough piping, install, and tune it for him. He needs to save a little cash .

So we'll definately do some back to back testing w/ a little more demand from a small 16G. This should give us a better idea about what this 18g will do vs the 16g turbos. . . In a genaral sense at least.

oh nice how much did you get it for in total? im going to see if i can get the cash to get this tubo asap and see what it can do

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm running a small 16g. So I need no lines or ic piping altered. It will be just the $699 plus shipping.




. . . . .




I'm running a small 16g. So I need no lines or ic piping altered. It will be just the $699 plus shipping.

 

[chavez408]

hahaha

why would you need to replace your j pipe? dont you own a 1gen

 

[Black_Bullet]

I've decided to get it, . My brother has an automatic AWD (w/ the tiny 13g and 390s). . . small16Gs and automatics are good. So he's going to buy me this 18g and I'm going to give him my small 16g w/ 15K miles, my MAFT w/ 450s, drawthrough piping, install, and tune it for him. He needs to save a little cash .

So we'll definately do some back to back testing w/ a little more demand from a small 16G. This should give us a better idea about what this 18g will do vs the 16g turbos. . . In a genaral sense at least.

lucky you. Now we'll have someone to be a good judge on the turbo as I know you will be one to take it to its limits .

 

[dsm-onster]

hahaha

why would you need to replace your j pipe? dont you own a 1gen

Exactly . I need no lines or ic piping altered. So the cost is what FP charges for the turbo: $699 + shipping.

lucky you. Now we'll have someone to be a good judge on the turbo as I know you will be one to take it to its limits .

It wouldn't be fair not to push it a little . I donot have a smim, though.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Exactly . I need no lines or ic piping altered. So the cost is what FP charges for the turbo: $699 + shipping.

Except MAYYYYYBEEE a new oil feed line. (Never a bad idea to replace it. Don't want old coked oil flaking off and clogging the feed hole in the CHRA)

 

[dsm-onster]

Except MAYYYYYBEEE a new oil feed line. (Never a bad idea to replace it. Don't want old coked oil flaking off and clogging the feed hole in the CHRA)

Good point. . .

 

[90laserRSfwd]

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno graphs/Evo-III-16G/E316G Tubular vs. Cast.JPG

maybe I'm wrong but this dyno from SBR looks like 415hp and 459 trq. ? (Evo 3 16g)

 

[90laserRSfwd]

any pictures of the FP 18g?

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Good point. . .

Good, now gimme some rep

 

[dsm-onster]

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno graphs/Evo-III-16G/E316G Tubular vs. Cast.JPG

maybe I'm wrong but this dyno from SBR looks like 415hp and 459 trq. ? (Evo 3 16g)

Yea, that's about the limit. Absolutely maxed out 30psi bleading down to 22 psi w/ a stroker, SMIM, 272s, 3 inch exhaust. . .

Supposedly, they pushed out more. There's no dyno sheets I've seen.

The averave tuner w/ good fuel and timing control and a 2.0 block cannot get those kinds of numbers out of an evo3 16g. That seams to be FP's goal w/ this turbo. A turbo that can spool quicker thana 20g but will be enough for the average guy to get to that 400hp mark.

I DONOT consider myself more than an ameture tuner. This is the kind of turbo I would want for 400hp. Not an evo3 16g. Before I would have to a laggier 20g which is a bit more in price. I'll jsut have to see what it will do. . . Now, Mike! give my money for my small16g and injectors and MAFT so I can buy this little thing!!!

 

[ryboj]

I'd really like to hear some new experiences with this turbo in coming months, in the FWD application. We need some guinea pigs!

I'm hesitant because I don't want the turbo I buy to spool too quickly and just get wheel spin. The power output of this turbo sounds perfect to me, being more than an Evo3 and less than a 20g. I still might need to keep my eyes on a 20g/50 trim type turbo to gain the slower spool characteristics for my little FWD.

Looking forward to hearing more about this turbo, both on paper and in real life experiences...

 

[dsm-onster]

I'd really like to hear some new experiences with this turbo in coming months, in the FWD application. We need some guinea pigs!

I'm hesitant because I don't want the turbo I buy to spool too quickly and just get wheel spin. The power output of this turbo sounds perfect to me, being more than an Evo3 and less than a 20g. I still might need to keep my eyes on a 20g/50 trim type turbo to gain the slower spool characteristics for my little FWD.

Looking forward to hearing more about this turbo, both on paper and in real life experiences...

Just lift!

You want the larger turbine wheels offered by run of the mill 20Gs and 50-trims for more flow to catch up. . .

 

[ryboj]

Just lift!
QUOTE]

What does the above mean? Sorry, I'm a little slow today.

So, you're saying it might be best to stick with the larger wheels....for the FWD....got it.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Uh spinning = too much power, how do you decrease power? Reduce throttle. How do you reduce throttle? Lift your damn foot off the gas pedal.

 

[dsm-onster]

Just lift!
QUOTE]

What does the above mean? Sorry, I'm a little slow today.

So, you're saying it might be best to stick with the larger wheels....for the FWD....got it.

Just lift the throttle. Or Properly Modulate it at launch. It can be done. You will NEVER get the same 60 fts as a decent awd launch. But you CAN catch up if you have enough turbo, fuel, and knock control. If you have a higher floing turbo that spools fast like an evo3 16g, then that is what you want to beat an evo3 16g at the track. There's no need to worry about spool, Just don't use all of the turbo right away (don't use as much gas). Use just enough to maintain traction, then once you reach a gear or rpm in a gear where you can floor it, then you have the flow there as quick as possible to catch up.

A quick spooling turbo does better to catch up to it's last boost level after shifting (transient response). If you can get the best of both worlds, more flow and better transient response, then you will have a turbo that can catch you up to a weak out-of-the-hole.

 

[ryboj]

Boosted, thanks for decoding that. But you know, easier said than done man..... I suppose this is an appropiate response.

Lifting your foot defeats the purpose of accelerating though....

I don't want to get this off topic, so I'll keep my personal turbo needs out of this topic as much as possible and continue to keep reading up on this new 18g from FP.

I've been waiting a long time for a turbo of this particular nature to come out, so I have high expectations.