evo 3 16g vs new fp 18g

[BaileyBoy]

Thank you


Sorry ive been out of the scene for a little bit, what exactly makes this 18G different?


18g td06sl2

sl2?

All the info is in the link below
Forced Performance: DSM 18G-6SL2 Turbo

 

[T is for TURBO]

Thanks for all the good info guys. I don't have the internals yet, but I am pretty certain I will be getting them. (I would rather upgrade the turbo later on rather than then internals) I will look into the srb turbo for sure.

 

[dsm-onster]

Thanks for all the good info guys. I don't have the internals yet, but I am pretty certain I will be getting them. (I would rather upgrade the turbo later on rather than then internals) I will look into the srb turbo for sure.

Why not just get good 6-bolt internals for far less?

 

[T is for TURBO]

Why not just get good 6-bolt internals for far less?

What is your definition of good internals?

Right now I'm looking at this. Obviously I don't plan to take it to "900 hp" but it gives me room to grow and a saftey cushion.

-Shawn

 

[Black_Bullet]

What is your definition of good internals?

Right now I'm looking at this. Obviously I don't plan to take it to "900 hp" but it gives me room to grow and a saftey cushion.

-Shawn

Cheaper, better places that could be bought, and you dont need the crank.

 

[RipperXX]

Sorry black, I guess I didn't finish my post/ question to you.


I am looking for possibly more than a Evo III can normally pump out but I hate lag and having a fast spooling turbo is very imporant for my goals. That mostly being able to make 380ish whp on pump, autox & canyon carving etc.

So would you say the FP 18g is a good option if I can't get that out of the MHI Evo III? I plan on going with 264/264 cams and water injection to get there on the evo, but I would rather be able to do that without the water injection just because I don't like the idea of running out of water and not noticing .. But I will use WI if it requires it vs running a larger turbo where I notice more lag.

 

[LaserAWD]

I would think you could what you are looking for out of the new FP 3150 instead of trying to use WI and squeeze it out of a16g or 18g.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Sorry black, I guess I didn't finish my post/ question to you.


I am looking for possibly more than a Evo III can normally pump out but I hate lag and having a fast spooling turbo is very imporant for my goals. That mostly being able to make 380ish whp on pump, autox & canyon carving etc.

So would you say the FP 18g is a good option if I can't get that out of the MHI Evo III? I plan on going with 264/264 cams and water injection to get there on the evo, but I would rather be able to do that without the water injection just because I don't like the idea of running out of water and not noticing .. But I will use WI if it requires it vs running a larger turbo where I notice more lag.

Most of what im going to say is factual and opintive at the same time.
The fp18g wont reach your goals on pump gas as you know. I dont want to deal with the extra responsibilities of meth injection either, id rather go E85 but theres none no were near were i live yet so ill have to wait.
I dont think you should hold back your power band with going straight 264s, they will get you were you need to be, but a fp1x cam would probably benefit you the most for what your looking for if you have the money to upgrade springs and retainers.
Im pretty much after the same thing as you are with power, type of racing, but Im still going bigger with the Brian crower 272s ( and there cheapest .)
Low end torque can also be made up with hard core tuning and get a cyclone manifold those things really do help when set up properly that will give back some of the low end you lose with a bigger cam profile. Id skip 18g but this isnt what this thread is about.
If you want to know what I have in mind then do a search on the Fp3052 turbo...

 

[BaileyBoy]

The fp 3150 and all the other 50 trim ball bearing turbos are badasss, but a lil pricey. If you can spend the cash DO IT!!!!! Go for a ball bearing turbo, but if your a little tight on cash the 18g can make a lot of power and still spool pretty well.

 

[JOEY A]

What is your definition of good internals?

Right now I'm looking at this. Obviously I don't plan to take it to "900 hp" but it gives me room to grow and a saftey cushion.

-Shawn

You do not need a crank, the factory one is plenty strong...


And if you have a good bottom end, just get ARP head studs and you should be fine


All my freinds went with big donkey dick setups, and wasted all there money and time and never had a car up and running

Work with what you have withen reason

 

[dsm-onster]

What is your definition of good internals?

Right now I'm looking at this. Obviously I don't plan to take it to "900 hp" but it gives me room to grow and a saftey cushion.

-Shawn

Stock 6-bolt internals found in the classifieds, dsmtrader, and ebay for stupid cheap. As tough as what a 50-trim/20g can throw at it. . . Which is more turbo than you're after. Considering how cheap you can get good 6-bolt internals, I'd go for the affordable solution, or go for much more turbo.

 

[Street_Killer]

So are there anymore reviews, logs, or dyno's on this turbo? I just bought it. Hopefully will have it on along with my new motor in a few weeks.

 

[Street_Killer]

Oh yeah, and they are watercooled right?

 

[LaserAWD]

I know it was quite a few pages back but for those of you that think you can't get damn near 400hp on pump gas here's Curt's latest dyno graph for you:

Curt Evo 16g

This was tuned by the guys at tpgtuning.com

Specs:

1994 TSI AWD
Stock 94 7-bolt motor including balance shafts and stock flywheel 122k miles on it
Head is stock minus ARP studs and 4 layer gasket
HKS 272 cams
FP 16g w/ FP Manifold
BR FMIC (new 4" core)
JMF Intake
DSMlink w/ 1000cc Tuned by TPG
MAFT-T
20psi on straight 93 octane
No knock, conervative timing, and safe AFRs. After all, it is a DD.

I imagine it'll be a beast once he decides to put some C16 or E85 in it and turns up the boost. So there's some dyno proof of what a 16g is capable of on a 2.0L engine

 

[dsm-onster]

I imagine it'll be a beast once he decides to put some C16 or E85 in it and turns up the boost. So there's some dyno proof of what a 16g is capable of on a 2.0L engine

HAHA! What will turning up the boost do?! It won't yeild more peak hp. Perhaps little more at 4500 rpms and under. Gees. The evo3 16g goes from the most underrated turbo to the most overrated turbo. We're looking at a maxed out evo3 16g there. Great pump gas numbers! . . . But don't expect any higher curve. Just possibly a flatter one.

Wow, if us dsmers keep going the way we are, she'll be a 500whp turbo! Let's keep it up.

 

[LaserAWD]

Curve won't go up any? WTF? 20psi is no where near the max boost this turbo can produce and he's got plenty of intercooler to take the turbo to 25psi and beyond. There was a huge difference between 18psi and 24psi on my setup. It was very similar to Curt's setup but I didn't have DSMLink to do the fine tuning and was relying on the stock ECU timing maps.

I'd say there's an easy 50hp, possibly more, left in the setup with more boost and better gas.

 

[dsm-onster]

Curve won't go up any? WTF? 20psi is no where near the max boost this turbo can produce and he's got plenty of intercooler to take the turbo to 25psi and beyond. There was a huge difference between 18psi and 24psi on my setup. It was very similar to Curt's setup but I didn't have DSMLink to do the fine tuning and was relying on the stock ECU timing maps.

I'd say there's an easy 50hp, possibly more, left in the setup with more boost and better gas.

Then I call bull shit on the hp numbers.

It's not about psi. It's about flow. What airflow yields approximately 400whp? Where does an evo3 16g max out? Where does a 20g compressor map max out? Where does the 18g compressor map max out?

You can't just raise the boost on a maxed out turbo.

EDIT: You say 50 MORE whp. ZERO have ever pulled just close to 450 whp from this turbo.

 

[LaserAWD]

An Evo 16g is "rated" at 42lb/min from everything I've seen. Not sure about the 18g but the td05 20g is rated at 44lb/min

Depending on who you believe 1 lb/min is approximately 11 hp @ the wheels. If that's the case 42 times 11 = 462hp to the wheels.

So the way I see it the turbo is no where near maxed on flow at 20psi as 397hp divided by 11 equals 36lb/min of flow but that's my opinion.

 

[LaserAWD]

EDIT: You say 50 MORE whp. ZERO have ever pulled just close to 450 whp from this turbo.

That's just a laughable statement

How do you know? Do you know everyone that has ever run this turbo? Have you paid to have everyone that's ever run the turbo put their car on a dyno?

What about this thread:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/262203-new-evo-iii-16g-record-et-no-no2.html

A quote from that thread:

454awhp and i think 432ft/lbs. On a Dyno Jet.

Looks like not only close to 450hp but actually just a bit over 450hp.

 

[dsm-onster]

I know of that dyno pull. It's comical that you would believe SBR.

1 lbs/min = 10.5 hp AT THE CRANK => 441hp at the crank cannot roll out 450whp.

131 mph corresponds to 500 crank hp . evo3 16Gs are not 20Gs

 

[fwdeclipse]

That is crazy I would never of thought that turbo would make that number at only 20psi. I would have thought 25psi at least to get those numbers.

 

[dsm-onster]

Yea, everyone wanting 450 whp on pump gas should keep their evo3 16g. They've tried. But, it's their fault they can't reach that level.

 

[Black_Bullet]

454awhp and i think 432ft/lbs. On a Dyno Jet.

Remember dyno jet reads high too, and imo take it with a grain of salt, but a dyno could be off by 10ahwp, or 50awhp believe it or not....

 

[pickens]

Since I have an evoIII 16g, I can greatly assure you that A.) You will not make 400whp on a 2.0L at only 20psi (pumpgas) regardless of turbo unless you rev it to 9k. B.) A EvoIII16g has enough flow in it to run about 44 lb/min maxed out (basically wiring shut the wastegate). Thats about 400whp.

Reality is....on pump gas you should be able to get 350whp all day long out of a evoIII 16g (thats about 40lb/min). On pump gas an 18g will not yield any significant gains over a evoIII16g as they use the same inefficient compressor housing. Even below 23psi a 20g in the tdo6 housing will not net too much bigger gains over anyone of these turbos(20whp tops). However, after 23psi (race gas territory) on your typical setup you will start to see differences once each turbo maxes out.

E316g -400whp
18g - 425whp
20g -450whp

 

[GVR4592]

I know of 3 people that made 450whp on the Evo3, one of them was on pumpgas, one was E-85 and the other was leaded race gas.