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2G European 4g63 NT to Turbo swap/conversion

simoastronaut

Probationary Member
3
1
Nov 19, 2018
Rome, Europe
This is my first thread after some digging in the forum. So I own a 2g gs dsm from europe and as far as I understand the NT version here has a 4g63 while in the US market is a 420a, therefore there aren't many threads about the 2g nt 4g63 compared to the 1g nt 4g63.

I have some questions regarding this specific engine in preparation to be turbocharged which hopefully someone can help me (especially those from europe). First I wanna specify that my goal is to reach 300hp with 255fuel pump, 550cc injectors, ecmlink ecu, 16g turbo. My questions are the following: is the stock piston sturdy enough for this setup? does my engine have a knock sensor (I know the 1g nt 4g63 doesn't come with it)? Will I need a resistor pack for the injectors? Do I need to change the 02 housing sensor?

Thank you.
 

dustyboner

DSM Wiseman
1,944
1,061
Mar 13, 2016
abq, New_Mexico

simoastronaut

Probationary Member
3
1
Nov 19, 2018
Rome, Europe
yes you have a knock sensor (the FSM calls it a detonation sensor)

your stock injectors are not peak and hold(2-3 ohms), they are saturated injectors(13-16 ohms) meaning that you would only need to add a resistor box if you switch to peak and hold injectors (like evo 550 injectors)

here is a link to the FSM for Euro 4g63NT cars: http://www.mediafire.com/file/uz7nqzs13z55j6k/2g_eclipse_FSM_European_market.zip/file
thank you so much, I've been looking for that document for a while!

yes you have a knock sensor (the FSM calls it a detonation sensor)

your stock injectors are not peak and hold(2-3 ohms), they are saturated injectors(13-16 ohms) meaning that you would only need to add a resistor box if you switch to peak and hold injectors (like evo 550 injectors)

here is a link to the FSM for Euro 4g63NT cars: http://www.mediafire.com/file/uz7nqzs13z55j6k/2g_eclipse_FSM_European_market.zip/file

Sir I have more questions, If I swap my ecu to a 95 GST can I just plug 650cc high impedence injectors without a resistor box? Also, Will the harness match correctly without any rewiring? Are the order of the spark plugs the same?
 

renovatdkitchen

Proven Member
622
37
Sep 25, 2011
Toronto, ON_Canada
I'm not 100% about DSM's sold outside of the USDM, but when turboing my spyder with a N/A 4G63, I had to add a knock sensor then just swapped the fusebox and engine harnesses including the resistor box as I am running low impedance injectors.
 

Kryndon

Proven Member
806
463
Jan 10, 2014
Bulgaria, Europe
Some good info there by Dustyboner.

In addition, all EU 1G/2G Eclipses have a knock sensor. However, the 1G knock sensor is different and you cannot technically use it on a 2G system and ECU. The signals don't match.

The stock 7 bolt N/A piston is fairly sturdy but I'd say the safe limit is up to 250-260 HP (if tuned properly with minimal knock). Technically it has a thicker crown, so the weakest link remains the connecting rod (as is in all 4G63s). For that kind of horsepower, 255lph might be overkill, but at least you'll have it taken care of if you up the power later down the road. To add, the 7 bolt N/A 4G63 does not come with oil squirters, which can be a good and bad thing, depending on your piston preference and what you'll be doing to your lubrication system (port mods, balance shaft elimination etc.). Another thing I forgot to mention (this is an edit), is that there is a difference between the N/A 4G63 spark plugs and the turbo ones. N/A comes with NGK BPR6ES-11. Notice the "-11". That's a slightly different plug with bigger stock gap, which is needed for the N/A combustion. So don't forget to change those out and put the standard NGK BPR6ES plugs in. You can still gap the other ones tighter, but it's not recommended. Plugs are cheap anyway, might as well get the right ones.

There's a few people from Europe currently doing an N/A to Turbo swap. One of them is Patman, maybe he can share some of the things he's doing to help you out.

Additionally, if you are looking to swap in stock (OEM) turbo parts such as the stock intercooling pipes, turbo and manifold, I have the whole kit leftover since I'm swapping everything out, so that's available if you're interested.
 
Last edited:

simoastronaut

Probationary Member
3
1
Nov 19, 2018
Rome, Europe
Some good info there by Dustyboner.

In addition, all EU 1G/2G Eclipses have a knock sensor. However, the 1G knock sensor is different and you cannot technically use it on a 2G system and ECU. The signals don't match.

The stock 7 bolt N/A piston is fairly sturdy but I'd say the safe limit is up to 250-260 HP (if tuned properly with minimal knock). Technically it has a thicker crown, so the weakest link remains the connecting rod (as is in all 4G63s). For that kind of horsepower, 255lph might be overkill, but at least you'll have it taken care of if you up the power later down the road. To add, the 7 bolt N/A 4G63 does not come with oil squirters, which can be a good and bad thing, depending on your piston preference and what you'll be doing to your lubrication system (port mods, balance shaft elimination etc.). Another thing I forgot to mention (this is an edit), is that there is a difference between the N/A 4G63 spark plugs and the turbo ones. N/A comes with NGK BPR6ES-11. Notice the "-11". That's a slightly different plug with bigger stock gap, which is needed for the N/A combustion. So don't forget to change those out and put the standard NGK BPR6ES plugs in. You can still gap the other ones tighter, but it's not recommended. Plugs are cheap anyway, might as well get the right ones.

There's a few people from Europe currently doing an N/A to Turbo swap. One of them is Patman, maybe he can share some of the things he's doing to help you out.

Additionally, if you are looking to swap in stock (OEM) turbo parts such as the stock intercooling pipes, turbo and manifold, I have the whole kit leftover since I'm swapping everything out, so that's available if you're interested.
Man thanks for the info, so glad to see someone from eu. So I assume your dsm is imported since you have the stock turbo? Now my biggest concern is the ECU. Once I install all the turbo components, how am I going to flash the ECU? I've read somewhere that the eprom ecu in usdm has a different wiring that the eudm ecu. Can anyone confirm this? If that's the case I won't be able to install ecmlink? perhaps I can send them my ecu directly and have it socketed on so the wiring stays as it is? I have attached the eudm electrical wiring in case anyone knows if its the same as the usdm. (about the turbo parts I will let you know once I find a way to flash my ecu)
 

Attachments

  • PHUE95E1-A_ECLIPSE_97_ELECTRICAL_WIRING.pdf
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Last edited:

Kryndon

Proven Member
806
463
Jan 10, 2014
Bulgaria, Europe
There's lots of people from the EU registering here recently, actually. We need to represent the continent, since there's quite a few DSMs over here, haha :D!

Anyway, the N/A ECUs have completely different programming and I believe are physically different in terms of the circuitboard itself. I have not seen an N/A ECU come in EPROM form. Additionally, to use DSMlink (ECMlink), you will need an EPROM-type 2G DSM ECU, or the later '99 black box ECUs. Those can be socketed for a DSMlink chip, which you can then fully control with the software. You can't flash your current ECU, and you wont be able to chip it. It wont hurt to take it out and see if by chance it's EPROM, but I doubt it (there should be an "E" on the case lettering). In terms of the output pins on the ECUs, they should be the same, at least the 3 connector plugs should be physically the same, but once you get the proper turbo EPROM ECU you may need to add a wire or two for additional sensors and wiring.

As for my own DSM, it's a long story but basically yes, it's been imported way back in '98. All *stock* DSMs that you see in Europe have been imported privately. They were never sold officially by dealerships. We only got N/A 4G63 variants of both 1G and 2G, and the very, very rare 1G AWD N/A 4G63 model. Slap a turbo on that and it becomes a full-blown GSX. In fact I've seen most of those come out of Italy and Spain, oddly enough.

I've seen a few folks from the US selling their ECU+DSMlink bundle, sometimes between 600-700 euros. Add some shipping and possibly import tax, and it becomes really expensive. But that's the best, proven way to tune these cars reliably, as long as you know what you're doing. I really want to get one as well, but maybe later next year or a bit after. Got an engine rebuild to worry about currently...
 

Kryndon

Proven Member
806
463
Jan 10, 2014
Bulgaria, Europe
I need to make a small (but significant) correction to my #6 post. EU 4G63 blocks DO come with oil jets(squirters). I just got a used N/A block to put in mine and it has the exact same jets in the same place. Even looking it up through a specific VIN in CAPS shows the same diagram with squirters and part numbers. This is beneficial when running stock pistons (be it turbo or non turbo pistons).

And as I already mentioned, for moderate boost levels especially with the T25 up to 11-12 psi, the N/A 7 bolt piston is more than capable of withstanding those pressures. Yes, it's higher compression (an increase of roughly 2:1), but it compensates with a thicker crown. I would only start questioning it if you're running more than 240-250 hp and having a bad tune or lots of unaccounted knock/detonation.

But as with all things, proceed at your own caution. If you're putting on a 16G, that means that inevitably you'll be tempted to 'crank up the boost to the f***ing moon', so you might as well invest in a set of rods/pistons combo which will withstand those conditions. Eagle Rods/Wiseco Pistons, EVO 8 rods/pistons... Anything really. Lots of aftermarket options out there.
 

renovatdkitchen

Proven Member
622
37
Sep 25, 2011
Toronto, ON_Canada
I've been running 26psi on a ported e16g on my N/A bottom end for a few weeks now, drive everywhere like I stole it, admittedly I dont even wait for the oil temps to warm up. Motor has been fine but I just stripped 4th gear a few days ago.
 

Kryndon

Proven Member
806
463
Jan 10, 2014
Bulgaria, Europe
I bought an engine from an EU 1991 GS (D22A) 6 bolt block and it had oil squirters. But to be honest the 6 bolt internals are so strong that you should be completely fine running low boost. Here's a picture:
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cosmicDSM

Proven Member
33
6
Jan 16, 2020
Budapest, Europe
Use 7bolts stock turbo rods with ( for example) new NPR turbo pistons.
Not the stock n/a pistons!.
I have to correct one thing :
My original 4g63 N/A EDM block HAS GOT oil jets! :) believe me , i know.
 

Kryndon

Proven Member
806
463
Jan 10, 2014
Bulgaria, Europe
Yep, just to add even more evidence, this is the 7 bolt N/A block I dropped in my Talon in 2019. I got it from a 1996 Eclipse GS.

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cosmicDSM

Proven Member
33
6
Jan 16, 2020
Budapest, Europe
Wait... that "holes" for the bearing lubrication, isn't it?? Those are not oil jets.
The oil jet is for cooling the bottom of the piston. Hmm?
I have a picture on my laptop, at night i will searc it.

I got it. !
That is an oil jet. This is my orig.block.
4g63 na, 7bolts, edm.

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Kryndon

Proven Member
806
463
Jan 10, 2014
Bulgaria, Europe
The bigger holes (above the ones circled in red) feed the main journals with oil. From there, pressurized oil also flows thru the smaller holes (circled in red) and shoot out of the small jets aimed at the piston skirts. They simply made the oil jets integrated into the mains and saved a few bucks from needing to have bolt-on jets like the ones on 6 bolts. It's also cleaner and more compact, and all you need is a thin paperclip to make sure they are unclogged when you got the block disassembled.
 
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