ECUPlus offering more stuff than DSMLink

[DGajre777]

I just checked the ECUPlus site, and it seems that they now offer a stutterbox and NTLS.

So in comparision to DSMLink, it seems that ECUPlus offers the following benefits over DSMLink:
1) No E-Prom ECU needed for 2Gs
2) Built-in MAFT
3) Cheaper than DSMLink

And they have 2 versions for sale with different costs (depending on your soldering skills).

I was thinking of going with DSMLink, but other than their awesome support that I've heard so much about, with all the improvements to ECUPlus, is DSMLink V.2 still superior? I've read the DSMLink manual many times and couldn't find anything that DSMLink has that ECUPlus doesn't. Am I missing anything? And how does it log knock without an E-PROM?

Comments?


The ECU+ includes a crazy (and growing!) number of features, including:

- Dual fuel and timing maps with on-the-fly map switching. (Unlimited sets of maps can be saved/restored to a laptop.) +/-50% adjustment on the fuel maps and +/-15 degrees on the timing maps.
- Fuel and timing are adjusted via 129-point fuel and timing maps (250 RPM resolution from 1000 to 8000 RPM at four different loads, plus idle). RPMs in-between the discrete points are interpolated internally.
- Integrated injector scaling to support oversized injectors.
- Supports vehicles with wrong-year cam sensors - most useful for 1995-1996 DSMs with a 1997+ cam sensor swap, or a 2nd generation DSM with a 1st generation (6 bolt) motor - eliminates the check-engine light on those setups.
- Simulated front and rear O2 sensor generation.
- Configurable fuel-cut defencer.
- Integrated MAS tweaking capability, similar to the HKS EIDS, to improve idle with large injectors and cams.
- Configurable low/medium/high load thresholds.
- Works directly with the GM 3" and 3.5" MAFs to replace the stock DSM/EVO MAS air meter.
- Fast native datalogging that logs at 25 samples per second.
- Integrated stock ECU datalogging to log things like fuel trims and knock sum.
- Multiple uncommitted I/Os for future expansion and datalogging of analog signals.
- Wideband, boost, EGT and knock logging.
- Knock back-off function to protect your engine from excessive knock.
- Optional plug-n-play capability for the 1995+ DSMs and the EVO VIII/IX - installs in minutes!
- Street dyno capability in the Windows software - treats a WOT run as a dyno pull and plot HP and torque.
- Can "overlay" multiple runs and compare between them on the street dyno or the time plots - immediately see if your tuning resulted in increased HP or if your engine was knocking in a given range.
- Drag capability - treats a 1/4 mile of driving as though it were done on a drag strip - shows 60', 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile speeds and ET
- Integrated full-featured OBD-II code scanner/reader (1995+ DSMs and the EVO VIII/IX). Includes real-time display of engine parameters for OBD-II cars and for the 1G DSMs.
- Launch control and no-lift shifting.
- EVO ROM editing and map tracing that uses EcuFlash-compatible XML ROM definitions.
- Advanced architecture - the ECU+ includes a dedicated high-speed digital signal processor (2x faster than the original ECU+) along with two co-processors for knock and other functions.
- Free software upgrades for the Windows software as well as the firmware inside the ECU+ head unit - software and firmware releases are usually every 6-9 months to add new features, and most updates are available as betas for those who like to be on the bleeding edge.
- Inexpensive and full-featured - you don't have to buy hundreds of dollars worth of extras to tune your car (though a aftermarket wideband O2 kit is highly recommended).
- World-class analysis and tuning software for Windows 98 and up. You won't find better software in any other system. Guaranteed.


http://www.ecuplus.com/features.htm

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

To be honest, I would buy dsmlink with half the features, just for the people on dsmlink.com/forums.

Oh and its not cheaper, unless you count the eprom ecu. which does add 300 to the mix.

The dsmlink guys are INSANE with their support, if you can get a guest pass or anything to visit their site I would do so in a heartbeat. Try to find a friend with one, you wont even consider ecuplus after visiting the dsmlink forums.

 

[Denji]

I just purchased the new version, I got the software and hardware right here in front of me just pulled out of the box. I'm real excited to get this on my car. I still need to get ahold of a wideband and keyspan usb-serial adapter to plug into my laptop.

 

[KYNgsx]

I just checked the ECUPlus site, and it seems that they now offer a stutterbox and NTLS.

So in comparision to DSMLink, it seems that ECUPlus offers the following benefits over DSMLink:
1) No E-Prom ECU needed
2) Built-in MAFT
3) Cheaper than DSMLink

http://www.ecuplus.com/features.htm

Those are some of the exact reasons why I got it. Not needing an eprom ecu was a big plus for me. EcuPlus also has great support, especially considering it's a one man operation and the majority of users seem to be Evos. Comparing the two is difficult, since I've never had the chance to mess around with Dsmlink, and there probably aren't many Dsmlink users who have tried EcuPlus.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Correct...I run DSMLink but have never even known anybody that uses ECU+. Comparisons would be difficult going from "word of mouth" only. Unless you have experience with both, any opinions are just that.

What I can say though...

I picked DSMLink because it chipped a factory ECU and then you just plug in a laptop or PALM and start tuning and logging. I do not have to find a home for any "black boxes" or secondary control module in an already limited on space vehicle. DSMLink has an excellent support structure in place (forums) and their customer service is excellent. The product performs beyond expectations and has many more functions available than I will ever use...no-brainer for me at least.

 

[99gst_racer]

Dee - Keep in mind that DSMlink V3 will be out soon, and it will add to the list of features of V2. It just might be worth waiting for....

 

[Denji]

I never expected ECU+ to really be better than DSMlink. I didn't buy it because i thought it was a better product, I bought it because i thought it was a better product for me. I don't have crazy goals for this car. I've had it for three years, I'm perfectly satisified with my current setup, just want to tune it. Buying DSMlink in my opinion would be spending money on what ECU+ could do. If your going above 750cc injectors or ever are thinking about it, DSMlink is a clear choice here. If you were ever considering whether you should get SAFC or DSMlink, I'd say that ECU+ is perfect for you. If you were deciding between DSMlink and Emanage, forget about ECU+, its not capable of what your wanting from it.

 

[2gGSX]

Dee - Keep in mind that DSMlink V3 will be out soon, and it will add to the list of features of V2. It just might be worth waiting for....

While V3 has a lot of promising features being integrated into it, I don't think that it will be out soon.

 

[DGajre777]

Dee - Keep in mind that DSMlink V3 will be out soon, and it will add to the list of features of V2. It just might be worth waiting for....

I did some reading on V3 and while it will have a built-in MAFT like ECUplus, I heard that it will still require an E-prom.

Any idea when V3 of DSMLink is coming out? It seems like the wait has been a couple of years now.

 

[Denji]

I did some reading on V3 and while it will have a built-in MAFT like ECUplus, I heard that it will still require an E-prom.

Any idea when V3 of DSMLink is coming out? It seems like the wait has been a couple of years now.

I hope they fix that pesky memory loss when battery is disconnected issue.

Another good reason i got it, in the future I want to get an Evo, the 2g dsm version is compatible with the evo if you swtich like two wires.

Also, sadly, it seems to offer the least to the 1g guys.

On a positive note if you can wire decently, you can save 100 bugs on the wiring harness. Meaning you could essentially get ECU+ for 450. I could have wired it, I was just kinda lazy and wanted a really clean install.

 

[DGajre777]

As Denji mentioned, the only downside to ECU Plus, other than having a place to put the box (not bad for saving $300), is that the ECU Plus has a cap of 780cc injectors while DSMLink can be used with 1000+ cc injectors.

Now I'm wondering if 780ccs will be enough for my future turbo setup - FP3150 on pump gas (somewhere between 25 and 28psi), Robert at FP did mention that the compressor when maxed out flows 49 lb/min. Time for more research...

 

[2gGSX]

Unless you plan on running E85 that should be plenty of injector. 750cc injectors (I assumed 780's were the PTE's) x 4 at 100% IDC on pump is just over 5 lbs/min of fuel, which actually mates up perfectly to ~50 lbs/min.

Denji--V3 is going to introduce a "field programmable memory module" which will solve the issue of losing your adjustments when the ECU loses power.

 

[DGajre777]

Unless you plan on running E85 that should be plenty of injector. 750cc injectors (I assumed 780's were the PTE's) x 4 at 100% IDC on pump is just over 5 lbs/min of fuel, which actually mates up perfectly to ~50 lbs/min.

Yeah, but the ideal way of tuning to not go over 85-90% IDC to prevent burning up injectors. IDCs also depends on the A/F ratio (very rich = High IDCs). I could always turn up the base fuel pressure and bring make it lean to lower IDCs IF I max the 750s.

Also, adding cams, increasing fuel will increase IDCs.

 

[xxraptor660xx]

How hard is the soldering/wiring to hook up ECU+ on a 1g?

 

[daren_p]

I'm curious, ECU+ is still basically a fancy piggy back system? By that I mean your still limited by injector size & what about timing? Do you have direct control of timing or is your timing effected by injector size?

I have no experience with ECU+, so obviously my opinion would be lop sided & the benefits of DSMLink have already been mentioned. The V3 2g version is supposed to come with the memory board feature, no need for the MAFT, much faster datalogging & more capacity plus a tonn of new features. I have seen a few screen shots & the new version should blow the old one out of the water but as for coming out soon, I don't know about that. Last time I read something on the progress (a few months back), I believe they were over half way done but still had lots to do & this has been several years in the making.

As for injector cap with ECU+, with PTE 780's you can run out of fuel (or close too) fairly easily depending on how far you go with your setup. I've seen 85% IDC out of my FIC 750's (flow atleast as well as PTE 780's & normally flow abit more) with my 3052 & this is only running 25psi on a stock 2L with crappy 2g intake mani & FP1X cams which aren't designed for top end flow. If you plan on running abit more boost, a SMIM or larger cams or even a stroker, you'll run out of injector pretty quickly.

 

[Denji]

well, you would have to tap about 20 or so wires, but its very well diagrammed with good instructions.

 

[xxraptor660xx]

20 wires from the ecu plug? Or is it wires from each individual sensor?

 

[Denji]

I'm curious, ECU+ is still basically a fancy piggy back system? By that I mean your still limited by injector size & what about timing? Do you have direct control of timing or is your timing effected by injector size?

I have no experience with ECU+, so obviously my opinion would be lop sided & the benefits of DSMLink have already been mentioned. The V3 2g version is supposed to come with the memory board feature, no need for the MAFT, much faster datalogging & more capacity plus a tonn of new features. I have seen a few screen shots & the new version should blow the old one out of the water but as for coming out soon, I don't know about that. Last time I read something on the progress (a few months back), I believe they were over half way done but still had lots to do & this has been several years in the making.

As for injector cap with ECU+, with PTE 780's you can run out of fuel (or close too) fairly easily depending on how far you go with your setup. I've seen 85% IDC out of my FIC 750's (flow atleast as well as PTE 780's & normally flow abit more) with my 3052 & this is only running 25psi on a stock 2L with crappy 2g intake mani & FP1X cams which aren't designed for top end flow. If you plan on running abit more boost, a SMIM or larger cams or even a stroker, you'll run out of injector pretty quickly.

Yes you can alter timing directly via 129 point timing maps.

You should look at the new features, i particularly like the new feature of the front o2 sensor simulator. You place a wideband o2 in your shortbands original bung, remove the old one completely. ECU+ translated the wideband into shortband for your ECU while logging wideband and displaying your curren A/F ratio. cool!

take a look at the feature list http://www.ecuplus.com/features.htm

 

[DGajre777]

20 wires from the ecu plug? Or is it wires from each individual sensor?

http://www.ecuplus.com/downloads/manual.pdf
Page 13, 14, 15 and 16.

 

[Denji]

20 wires from the ecu plug? Or is it wires from each individual sensor?

Well, there is 19 going to the ecu plug and 15 additional wires that i assume would go to sensors. Though, i doubt you use all of them. So since i havent actually installed the unit yet, i'll say that the ecu plug has 19 taps and there is an additional 15 wires that remain.

 

[Denji]

http://www.ecuplus.com/downloads/manual.pdf
Page 13, 14, 15 and 16.

or that works even better

 

[2gGSX]

Yeah, but the ideal way of tuning to not go over 85-90% IDC to prevent burning up injectors. IDCs also depends on the A/F ratio (very rich = High IDCs). I could always turn up the base fuel pressure and bring make it lean to lower IDCs IF I max the 750s.

Also, adding cams, increasing fuel will increase IDCs.

At 90% IDC 4x 750's are doing 4.52 lbs/min of fuel. If you tune for even 11:1, you can support ~50 lbs/min with that setup. Plus, as you said, you could always up base fuel pressure a little if you need that little bit more of injector.

I have no experience with ECU+, so obviously my opinion would be lop sided & the benefits of DSMLink have already been mentioned. The V3 2g version is supposed to come with the memory board feature, no need for the MAFT, much faster datalogging & more capacity plus a tonn of new features. I have seen a few screen shots & the new version should blow the old one out of the water but as for coming out soon, I don't know about that. Last time I read something on the progress (a few months back), I believe they were over half way done but still had lots to do & this has been several years in the making.

As for injector cap with ECU+, with PTE 780's you can run out of fuel (or close too) fairly easily depending on how far you go with your setup. I've seen 85% IDC out of my FIC 750's (flow atleast as well as PTE 780's & normally flow abit more) with my 3052 & this is only running 25psi on a stock 2L with crappy 2g intake mani & FP1X cams which aren't designed for top end flow. If you plan on running abit more boost, a SMIM or larger cams or even a stroker, you'll run out of injector pretty quickly.

I know just how you feel about waiting for V3! The last time they gave an estimation of release that I remember was this:

I hate to ask this because its probebly been asked a million times now.
But any approximate as to when this will be coming?
What about prices of upgrades? Will it cost more to upgrade from V1?

Yeah. Last summer. Seriously. That's when I thought it would be ready at one time. And then I was saying late winter. Last winter. It's impossible to estimate, so I've stopped trying. We're still not in the 1-2 month range, by any means, if that tells you anything. But I swear we're working on it. We really are. In between everything else that goes on day to day.

Thomas Dorris

That was about 5 months ago.

As far as the 750's not being enough injector, I still believe that the 750's are enough (if necessary, that's not to say you can't go bigger of course). You seem to be nearing the 3052's rated choke flow with a little more injector to go. As far as the stroker and cams part, my 2.3 w/ comp 101200's were fine with 750's on the T04B 50 trim, although the highest airflow I got to see myself was 45 lbs/min over the St. Louis summer. The only time I actually did start running out of injector was when I began experimenting with E85.

 

[DGajre777]

Does anyone know how the ECUPlus calculates knock without an E-PROM?

Edit: A new member 'We're on Boost' sent me this PM.

"Dee,
It does it 2 ways, you can log both ways simultaneously:
1.) It measures the voltage in the wire coming from the knock sensor to the ecu.
2.) It records "knock counts" which is the native mitsu method of measuring knock, gets these from the ecu as OBD2 data on the 2g's and evos, gets it as MUTT-2 data on the 1g's.

The knock voltage (method 1) has a whole page in the menu all to itself where you can set up your own controls for pulling back timing or adding fuel when the voltage goes over some level that you set.

My car is a 1990 with no eprom and both of these methods work fine on my car. The "mutt-2" for 1g is a new feature that just went production about 2 weeks ago.

Hey I'm pm-ing this because I'm a friggin newbie and can't post in this thread. It would be cool if you could copy and paste this whole pm into the thread.

By the way, tech support from ecu+ is great - your tech support is Tom Collins the designer/developer/programmer of the whole thing. You can't get much better than that! He does respond to email questions usually within a day just like he says, and he is a good writer so you can usually get what he is saying the first time around. The reason you don't see much on the ecu+ forum is because most people probably just email Tom directly like I usually do. Tell you what though, the manual is so good you don't need much tech support. Also the software is pretty self explanatory."

 

[AWDfrank]

What are the main features that are lacking for a 1g?

 

[DGajre777]

What are the main features that are lacking for a 1g?

Probably no different than the 2Gs, other than the fact that it would be almost the same price since you wouldn't need an E-PROM.