eBay knockoff GT35R testing.

[rrussell]

Any pics of the turbo damage?

 

[JusMX141]

Turbo's not in my hands yet. It's off the car, and it'll be at my shop the next time one of the guys from that crew comes up here.

 

[Jst4Cyl]

I knew it would just be a matter of time. I hate to say it but the sayings "if it looks to good to be true.." and "you get what you pay for" have always summed up the way it goes.

True, and not to step on anyones scrotum here but I've watched 2 PTE's take a crapola within 500 miles and both were running less than 20 psi (57 trim and a 50 trim) and after 2weeks of getting jerked around by PTE losses were cut and turbos have been made into expensive paper weights. Supposingly, the warranty was up by a week or so on the 50 trim and I can understand that BUT I explained that this was bought then installed here recently, hence the low mileage. Heck the wheels haven't had enough mileage to even get coated yet.

The 57 trim is still in a toss up. Either way PTE isn't getting anymore of my donations.

I guess that Borg train is sounding like a good train to jump on.

 

[JusMX141]

I've rebuilt somewhere in the region of 250-300 turbos in the almost 6 years I've been doing rebuilds. BY FAR, the most reliable turbos I've seen for DSM's are MHI's. They just refuse to die...and if they do, a simple rebuild gets them back up and boosting in very little time. I've seen 16G's with compressor wheels that had no fins left on them still make boost. I've seen 20G's with enough shaft play to allow the wheels to grind against the housings and make the turbo sound like a circular saw still power a car to an 11 in the 1320.

The most fragile thing on a MHI turbo is the turbine shaft. They're VERY easy to score the shaft if you send metal through your turbo. Garrett may have the upper hand in shaft durability, but as far as overall turbo durability it's all Mitsu in my opinion.

 

[AndrewD5418]

At 8:35am on 9/4/08, the eBay GT35R was pronounced dead.

He called this morning while I was on my way to work- said he pulled the intake and there's TONS of play, and the compressor wheel is all jacked up from hitting the housing. The funny thing is the turbo still made 22psi while it was dying, and the car even trapped 105 on the last pull of the night despite pulling out slowly from the tree.

It lasted 400 miles.....barely enough time to get the car tuned properly. We installed it by the books- ran the oil feed to the head with an inline filter and a volume restrictor, and it STILL died. I'm rather disappointed- it really appeared to be quite a well-built piece. I'm going to pursue a warranty claim from the seller, although I'm probably just going to get a poke in the eye. If they don't want the turbo back or are unresponsive to my warranty claim, I'll rip the turbo apart and try to see what exactly what went wrong (DSM-onster will be proud).

I feel bad if anything I've said in this thread up to this point has convinced anyone this was a worthwhile turbo; it's not. Just like all of the other Chinese Wal-Mart knockoff junk turbos that are flooding eBay, there may be some good ones....but this one sure wasn't.

I thought you're only supposed to use a restrictor if it is feed from the housing, and not the head....

 

[rrussell]

jusmx141 could you up-grade the center section of these gt35r turbos?

 

[JusMX141]

I thought you're only supposed to use a restrictor if it is feed from the housing, and not the head....

I believe you're confusing volume restriction with pressure restriction.

Garrett normally specifies a volume restrictor for all of their ball-bearing turbos in order to avoid saturating the center cartridge with oil. I believe the required normal operating oil pressure for a ball bearing turbo is 30-60psi, which is quite achieveable from the head. If fed from the filter housing, you could see pressures as high as 80psi fed to the turbo at high RPM.

No matter WHERE you draw oil from for a ball-bearing turbo, you need a volume restrictor....it's up to you to find the oil source with the appropriate operating pressure for your turbo.

Regardless, if you watched the second video that I posted earlier you'll see that this turbo was getting PLENTY of oil.

jusmx141 could you up-grade the center section of these gt35r turbos?

That's very possible....use a replacement Garrett CHRA in the knockoff housings. What I need to know is if the collar where the turbine housing seals and the backplate size of the compressor housing is identical to that of a Garrett or not. I'll post any info I find, but I don't really have a true GT35R nearby to measure.

The chinese have a sneaky way of making minute changes in order to get past copyright laws that will also render the turbo useless in trying to repair with genuine parts. For instance, the towers on the knockoff 16G's compressor cover which the wastegate actuator bolts to are much shorter than that of a MHI 16G. If you try to swap a MHI actuator in place of the knockoff actuator, the flapper will hang open about 3/4". Again, it's nothing a stack of washers can't handle....but it IS a difference.

I've already posted that the Garrett compressor backplate retainers will not line up with the holes on the knockoff 35R compressor cover....the bolt holes are off about 1/2" the whole way around. I can only wonder how many additional differences there are!

 

[rrussell]

I believe you're confusing volume restriction with pressure restriction.

Garrett normally specifies a volume restrictor for all of their ball-bearing turbos in order to avoid saturating the center cartridge with oil. I believe the required normal operating oil pressure for a ball bearing turbo is 30-60psi, which is quite achieveable from the head. If fed from the filter housing, you could see pressures as high as 80psi fed to the turbo at high RPM.

No matter WHERE you draw oil from for a ball-bearing turbo, you need a volume restrictor....it's up to you to find the oil source with the appropriate operating pressure for your turbo.

Regardless, if you watched the second video that I posted earlier you'll see that this turbo was getting PLENTY of oil.



That's very possible....use a replacement Garrett CHRA in the knockoff housings. What I need to know is if the collar where the turbine housing seals and the backplate size of the compressor housing is identical to that of a Garrett or not. I'll post any info I find, but I don't really have a true GT35R nearby to measure.

The chinese have a sneaky way of making minute changes in order to get past copyright laws that will also render the turbo useless in trying to repair with genuine parts. For instance, the towers on the knockoff 16G's compressor cover which the wastegate actuator bolts to are much shorter than that of a MHI 16G. If you try to swap a MHI actuator in place of the knockoff actuator, the flapper will hang open about 3/4". Again, it's nothing a stack of washers can't handle....but it IS a difference.

I've already posted that the Garrett compressor backplate retainers will not line up with the holes on the knockoff 35R compressor cover....the bolt holes are off about 1/2" the whole way around. I can only wonder how many additional differences there are!

Thanks again for all your research, much appreciated

 

[tbonitz301]

Is that gabe's car?

 

[JusMX141]

Not Gabe....Dave. Gabe has the green 2G TSi and the yellow Evo.

 

[500orbust]

Our turbo builder had his hands on one of these. The turbo failed because the nut that held on the compressor wheel fell off. On a true 35r the shaft is reverse thread and on the fake 35r it is not.

 

[AWDn0t2]

I'm wondering if the bearings were replaced with higher quality ones and turbo was properly balanced by a reputable firm before use if you could achieve a little better results..

 

[dsm-onster]

You can't replace bearings on a ball-bearing turbo. This is why BB turbos are not worth it IMHO. There are faster spoolign turbos out there that flow more on both ends and can be rebuilt.

 

[JusMX141]

More media for your viewing pleasure....this video shows the shaft play after just 400 miles of use. Play close attention to the movement of the turbine- it's MUCH more excessive than the compressor:

<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i239.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid239.photobucket.com/albums/ff165/jusmx141/DSMTuners%20Stuff/Blown35RShaftPlay.flv">

I'll be feeding you guys some more shocking info about this turbocharger in the coming days...I'm awaiting a refund from the seller. The turbo is currently on it's way back to the seller via UPS.

 

[JusMX141]

Our turbo builder had his hands on one of these. The turbo failed because the nut that held on the compressor wheel fell off. On a true 35r the shaft is reverse thread and on the fake 35r it is not.

The compressor wheel did not fall off....the bearings in the center housing simply failed. The compressor nut on this turbo was left-hand threaded.

 

[talon187]

holy crap batman. that thing is sure done. and you say it was still making boost?

 

[JusMX141]

Post #175 shows the last pull.....it was still making 22psi, it just took a while to get there- even with launch control.

Not long before the turbo died, my buddy was saying he noticed the car was suddenly rich (10.0:1 and lower) at certain RPM points which it was perfectly tuned just days prior. I should've known right then and there that the turbo was starting to die because it wasn't able to make the same amount of airflow as it did when he tuned it.

I just set him up with an internally-gated G60, o2 dump housing, and ported Evo III manifold to get his car back up and running.

 

[Killa_dsm]

Not sure if you answered this in any of your early posts but, do you think the turbo was properly balanced when you got it? Could it just be a balancing issue that caused the turbo to fail?

 

[redtsi252]

So0o the seller did give you a refund?...if so0o I think that is pretty cool...I take it you didnt get a chance to pull it apart?

 

[rrussell]

I sent my turbo back also and waiting on my refund. The seller has a good credit report on ebay so I think we will be OK. Plus I have been in contact with him and he said he would give me refund no problem.

I would just like to thank jusmx141 again for the heads up!!!

 

[JusMX141]

I just received my refund. It wasn't credited as a Paypal refund...just sent as a normal payment- so I had to pay $11.47 out of my own pocket to get MY money back (on top of the cost to ship the junk turbo back), but at least I recovered something.

So, I suppose now it's time to spill the beans.....

This turbo was a JOURNAL BEARING turbo ALL ALONG. The seller BLATANTLY LIED in the listing....so you could see why I was a little upset. For not much more than I paid, I could've bought a new journal-bearing Garrett. I bought the turbo BECAUSE I thought it was a BALL BEARING UNIT as the listing clearly stated.

Here's the photos that I didn't want to post until I received my refund:

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To anyone thinking of buying something like this from eBay in the future....understand that the seller knows NOTHING ABOUT THE PRODUCT THEY'RE SELLING and will tell you ANYTHING IN THE LISTING TO GET YOU TO BUY THEIR PRODUCT.

For what it's worth, the freakin' listing AND the directions that came with the turbo said to use an oil restrictor because this was a ball bearing turbo....had I NOT used the restrictor, chances are this turbo would still be working fine. With that in mind, I hope the seller gets back EVERY ONE OF THESE THAT THEY SOLD because they're NOT going to last if the customer uses a restrictor!

 

[92awddsm]

I just received my refund. It wasn't credited as a Paypal refund...just sent as a normal payment- so I had to pay $11.47 out of my own pocket to get MY money back (on top of the cost to ship the junk turbo back), but at least I recovered something.

So, I suppose now it's time to spill the beans.....

This turbo was a JOURNAL BEARING turbo ALL ALONG. The seller BLATANTLY LIED in the listing....so you could see why I was a little upset. For not much more than I paid, I could've bought a new journal-bearing Garrett. I bought the turbo BECAUSE I thought it was a BALL BEARING UNIT as the listing clearly stated.

Here's the photos that I didn't want to post until I received my refund:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

To anyone thinking of buying something like this from eBay in the future....understand that the seller knows NOTHING ABOUT THE PRODUCT THEY'RE SELLING and will tell you ANYTHING IN THE LISTING TO GET YOU TO BUY THEIR PRODUCT.

For what it's worth, the freakin' listing AND the directions that came with the turbo said to use an oil restrictor because this was a ball bearing turbo....had I NOT used the restrictor, chances are this turbo would still be working fine. With that in mind, I hope the seller gets back EVERY ONE OF THESE THAT THEY SOLD because they're NOT going to last if the customer uses a restrictor!

The compressor wheel did not fall off....the bearings in the center housing simply failed. The compressor nut on this turbo was left-hand threaded.

I figured you had pulled it apart when you stated that the nut was left hand threads. About the only time anyone inspects the shaft for what thread it has is right before they remove the nut.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

the SAD thing is that even though people see this there will be a bunch of people here that will buy this crap.

 

[dsm-onster]

Yea, but you 'reap what you sow'. These same people bought ebay SMIMs that blew welds when you ran a boost leak test. Some times only their money gone is their lesson learned.

 

[JusMX141]

At least in my case I was able to recover thanks to a decently cooperative seller. However, I'm sure I'm in the minority of people who have actually received satisfaction after having a new eBay turbo die in a short time.

My lesson learned: eBay junk is eBay junk; Chinese garbage turbos will NOT work on high performance applications; and sellers will tell you anything to get you to buy their product. I'm 0 for 3 in this transaction.