eBay knockoff GT35R testing.

[JusMX141]

A good DSM buddy of mine (who has a reputation for destroying everything he gets his hands on) recently contacted me and told me about a knockoff GT35R that he saw on eBay. He was interested in giving one a try on his 1G TSi AWD.

I was skeptical, as always....I know reliable the knockoff 16G's are, and I also know how most of these knockoff turbo distributors are listing the parts they are selling; one seller even lists their same ball bearing turbo as two seperate sizes in two seperate auctions!

So, I ended up buying one for him. Here's the auction:
eBay Motors: NEW GT35R GT35 Turbocharger T3/t4 Evo 8 9 WRX Talon DSM (item 260251701636 end time Jun-24-08 19:53:12 PDT)

For $385 shipped, he can't go wrong if it works well. He knows he's taking a huge risk of losing that money, too....but at this point he feels he can't go wrong. Let's just say if this turbo can survive on his car, it can survive on ANYONE'S car.

I got the turbo in the mail yesterday, and just out of curiosity I tore the housings off and took measurements. It's IDENTICAL to a true GT35R in every way:

Compressor- 62mm inducer, 82mm exducer; 6-blade.
Turbine- 68mm inducer, 62mm exducer; 10-blade.

T3 turbine inlet, Garrett 4-bolt outlet.
4" compressor cover inlet, 2.5" compressor outlet.

I'll post some pics up later in case you guys are interested.

 

[turboglenn]

Worth a test i guess. I'm curious to see how long the center section lasts. Will you be feeding it from the head or the oil filter housing?

 

[JusMX141]

He's taking it from the head, and I'm MAKING him get an inline filter. He killed a perfect SBR GT13 because his rod bearings took a dump and he wasn't running an inline filter in the oil supply.

 

[The Shodan]

He's taking it from the head, and I'm MAKING him get an inline filter. He killed a perfect SBR GT13 because his rod bearings took a dump and he wasn't running an inline filter in the oil supply.

Hell, even from a knock off, I wouldn't feed it from the head. Those sections require a decent amount of oil.

 

[JusMX141]

Hell, even from a knock off, I wouldn't feed it from the head. Those sections require a decent amount of oil.

I believe you're misinformed. Ball bearing turbos don't require lots of oil- both in pressure and in volume.

 

[The Shodan]

I believe you're misinformed. Ball bearing turbos don't require lots of oil- both in pressure and in volume.

No, I disagree. I'm not at all misinformed. Please understand that the oil pressure from the head is different from that of the back of the block. Considering I build and design turbochargers, I might kinda have an idea about how they work.

The Mitsubishi cartridge is one of the most stout and expensive cartridges on the market, and many DSMers get very spoiled with being able to run these with lower oil pressures and volumes with good results. The problem is once one steps up their game and uses the BW or Garrett cartridges, they think that they can simply use the head as a proper access point. The truth is that the head does not truly supply enough oil at the right pressure to properly utilize the ball-bearing cartridge much less a journal bearing one. It can be done, but not at all a good idea.

Typically for most ball-bearing cartridges that are used by Hondas, Nissans, and mitsus need about 22-30psi of pressure at the line, and they mainly utilize a .035" restrictor. For the BW series about 40psi of oil pressure from a -4AN line is used, making sure that no 90 degree AN angles on the return line (at about a -10AN) are used for proper lubrication.

 

[T9S1i]

I think its been proven time and again that all GT ball bearing turbo need a restricter installed, which would mean it needs less volume and pressure.

 

[talon187]

hey justin let me know how this thing holds up i may try one if it holds up well how did you make out with that huge turbo you ended up buying from me a few months back ?

 

[JusMX141]

It'll be a little while before we get the 35R installed and get some testing- he still needs a T3-flanged manifold, and we have to build an o2 housing to work with the 4-bolt Garrett turbine outlet. I just wanted to start the thread now while I'm having a slow day at work.

Your 6152 is still sitting at the shop just as it was when you sent it to me. The center housing's fully rebuilt, I'm just waiting until I get a firm sale before I track down a turbine as I don't really have the $219 to lay down on a turbine wheel to let the turbo sit.

 

[The Shodan]

I think its been proven time and again that all GT ball bearing turbo need a restricter installed, which would mean it needs less volume and pressure.

"Less" doesn't mean "imprecise". I'd sure hate to gamble on a $1200-$1500 piece of equipment just because someone said that the amount and volume of oil should be LESS, and not know how much the pressure precisely needs to be..

 

[talon187]

to much oil pressure will make any turbo smoke ive got a brand new 57 trim with a brand new motor that has maybe 3-4k on it now and no balance shafts when i got oil form the hosuing it somked like no other

 

[JusMX141]

Considering I build and design turbochargers, I might kinda have an idea about how they work.

Typically for most ball-bearing cartridges that are used by Hondas, Nissans, and mitsus need about 22-30psi of pressure at the line, and they mainly utilize a .035" restrictor. For the BW series about 40psi of oil pressure from a -4AN line is used, making sure that no 90 degree AN angles on the return line (at about a -10AN) are used for proper lubrication.

I didn't mean to discredit you, Mr. Garrett.

So you're telling me I should hook the line up to the oil filter housing and run 80psi to the turbo with a volume restrictor on all ball-bearing turbos?

 

[GVR4592]

Garrett recommends 30psi as the optimum pressure for their GT turbo's, and up to 60 psi max. Anything over 30psi and response is going to suffer, so most people keep it around 30psi.

 

[JusMX141]

Right on. I was just asking Mr. Garrett his personal opinion since he builds and designs turbos, and "might kinda" know how they work.


Here are the pics, as promised:

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[BoostFrenzy]

It's IDENTICAL to a true GT35R in every way...

I doubt that. If it was EXACTLY the same, then Garrett would be all over their butts about copying their product. That is why most ebay parts have a bad fitment or something because it is not exactly the same.

Take for instance my short throw. It's a Megan unit which is a knock off B&M. They look almost the same but they feel completely different because of small differences. That, and it broke on me in traffic...don't think a B&M would do that.

I am however greatly interested on how long this turbo will last. Keep us updated please.

 

[T9S1i]

No, I disagree. I'm not at all misinformed. Please understand that the oil pressure from the head is different from that of the back of the block. Considering I build and design turbochargers, I might kinda have an idea about how they work.

We either get oil from the head or the Oil Filter Housing... i've never heard of getting oil from "the back of the block"

"Less" doesn't mean "imprecise". I'd sure hate to gamble on a $1200-$1500 piece of equipment just because someone said that the amount and volume of oil should be LESS, and not know how much the pressure precisely needs to be..

By less, i meant everyone knows to get the proper sized restrictor, even if fed from the head. I feed my turbo from the OFH with the correct size restricter installed so that i know that even in low flow and volume times, it will still see enough, whereas the head might start to drop below an adequate level.

 

[JusMX141]

I meant identical in wheel spec....just for kicks I tried to match a Garrett's compressor cover retainer up to the knockoff and the bolts are just slightly off. Not alot, but probably enough that legally Garrett can't claim it as a copy.

But yes, I know what you mean. It's the same reason the knockoff 16G's can't be rebuilt with a Mitsu rebuild kit.....they have Garrett T3-sized journal bearings and turbine seals. So when it comes time to rebuild one, you're stuck with buying two parts kits which amounts to more than the turbo's worth.

 

[BoostFrenzy]

I meant identical in wheel spec....

Even so, there is nothing on that page that says 'Garrett' so there has to be something different with the wheel specifications. I do admit though, their page and information looked very believable.

If only we had another test subject to see what an average persons experience with this would be instead of "reputation for destroying everything" man .

 

[JusMX141]

Haha yeah, but I was using him as a baseline figuring if this turbo passes the test then it should be good enough for use on anyone's car.

The turbo does come with a useful little installation guide that's written in English (barely)....here are a few of the lines taken WORD FOR WORD from the installation instructions:
- "Install the turbocharger on the engine, make sure that it is fastened and sealed at the connection. Otherwise it causes to howl and leaking oil."
- "After you start the engine, keep idling for 3-5 minutes. It will make the turbocharger lubricated completely. And you should also keep idling 3-5 minutes before you shut the engine. It can avoid the oil coked and the bearing burned."
- "Forbid to operate the engine "accelerate, flameout, slide". It would make the turbocharger run short of oil."

And this one's my favorite:
- "Check the radial clearance and the thrust clearance by a dial gauge. If the radial clearance is less than .1mm or the thrust clearance more than .15mm, you must ask for the professional."

The PROFESSIONAL WHAT? I wish I had "the professional" around at all times for advice!

Honestly, that is what it says, word for word. I don't have the time and the imagination to make this sh!t up.

What have we come to as Americans? Reading turbo installation instructions that were written by a 5-year-old Chinese girl?

 

[The Shodan]

We either get oil from the head or the Oil Filter Housing... i've never heard of getting oil from "the back of the block"

By less, i meant everyone knows to get the proper sized restrictor, even if fed from the head. I feed my turbo from the OFH with the correct size restricter installed so that i know that even in low flow and volume times, it will still see enough, whereas the head might start to drop below an adequate level.

Then since you want to get specific about "back of the block" vs the oil filter housing (which is still not the head, and part of my original point.), please enlighten the OP with the correct and proper sized restrictor, oil feed line size, and proper oil pressure that this individual may need for his particular application to supply oil from the head. That would educate him more than worrying about whether or not I am "misinformed" about the correct use of a feed line in either location. If you're going to make a statement of that caliber, being as specific as possible would be much more beneficial.

 

[The Shodan]

I didn't mean to discredit you, Mr. Garrett.

So you're telling me I should hook the line up to the oil filter housing and run 80psi to the turbo with a volume restrictor on all ball-bearing turbos?

I deal with others other than Garrett, and it does depend upon the engine oil pressure and application used. But in direct answer to your question, if that is indeed the case in terms of you using 80psi of pressure AT THE OIL LINE, it is best to use the recommended .035" restrictor to keep the pressure at a consistant 22-30psi of oil pressure at the feed in the cartridge. On the small and midframed turbochargers from the GT28RS to the GT35R, that oil pressure is most recommended.

 

[T9S1i]

Then since you want to get specific about "back of the block" vs the oil filter housing (which is still not the head, and part of my original point.), please enlighten the OP with the correct and proper sized restrictor, oil feed line size, and proper oil pressure that this individual may need for his particular application to supply oil from the head. That would educate him more than worrying about whether or not I am "misinformed" about the correct use of a feed line in either location. If you're going to make a statement of that caliber, being as specific as possible would be much more beneficial.

Sorry man im not trying to get in a flame war here, per the sites rules. You "build and design turbos" so im sure you know more than me about them.

In red, you tell me to make specific statements about the correct sizes and flow rates, yet in your first post all you did was say "you need a decent amount of oil". All of this could have been avoided if you would have taken your own advice in your first post and been a little more specific there turbo builder.



You want a .030" restrictor for BB turbos, .100" works for journal bearing.

From FP's site
Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP -4 AN Inline Filter

And i'll quote the pertinent info
"GT CHRA Ball bearing applications:

The body of the black filter features a built in .8mm (.030") restrictor as recommended by Garrett for use with their GT25R, GT30R, GT35R cartridges. "
Since this turbo is not a Garret GT CHRA, it could very well be different requirements.

Anyways, im not going to bicker over the internet anymore, I wasnt very specific, you werent very specific and Jusmx rebuilds turbo's all the time so im sure he knows exactly what he needs to do with this turbo to get it to run, the chinese engineering on it and his friend that likes to destroy things will tell if the turbo will last. Plus ive got a 12 pack of hefe's waitin for me!

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

$400 gamble on something that comes from a long line of $%it products? Look at the pics you posted of the CHRA.... There are no balance grinds or anything to show any kind of balance was performed on the rotating assembly. Aside from that I find it hilarious that these chinese con artists even casted the M24 into the cover. hahahahaha I would love to see a metallurgical break down on those wheels. The turbine wheel almost looks like burnt copper.

good luck with this, glad your friend has the money to buy a $400 piece, spend the time and money buying/making parts for something that has a 1/100,000 shot of not being like the rest of he products like it.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

What have we come to as Americans? Reading turbo installation instructions that were written by a 5-year-old Chinese girl?

won't take instructions from the 5 year old chinese girl that probably designed that turbo?

 

[JusMX141]

There are balance grinds on both the compressor and turbine wheels, you can see the turbine grind a little in the last two photos I posted; the compressor grinds aren't very visible in any of the photos, but they exist.