Dynoed Today (AGP L2R)

[jdmawd]

i'm not badmouthing agp. I'm just wondering who has ran a damn good time on one of the turbo's? so far I've heard of guys going slower or no gain

sit there and wait for people to do things for you. you will fit in well with the stereotypical cattle dsm mentality

Don't " me here, but i believe fp is working on a custom housing? agp uses a mitsu

FP does not make the L2r agp does so what they are doing is not relevant

I'm not saying one is wrong or one is right, but i'm curious why fp didn't hurry up and slap a mitsu housing on it if it works well?

Good call you cant because you don't build turbos and don't know anything about them.

i just have a feeling rob might know something and be fixing it

feelings don't make HP, or ET's. getting off your butt, and actually doing something does. turbo selection is only 1 part of making HP, and going fast. choose a turbo, and maximize its capabilities. that's how people have made big HP with smaller turbos. like the big, and small 16g's..ect

it only makes sense *shrugs* or why would he not have rushed to get the turbo's to market? just a hunch on my part...nothing more at all

What makes sense, is none of us are Robert Young. nor do we work for FP. so to assume anything about how, and why hey does business is bench racing. that is what makes sense *shrugs*.

go mirror Larry's setup, with a turbo that you feel is proven. see if you have an easier time getting it tuned. guess what? you wont. want to know why? because things don't work like posting on the Internet. mod lists dont= HP and track times, as it appears on the Internet. these people have spent a huge amount of time making the HP they make, and the track times they have put down. Do you know how many horrible times, I have watched the glazers make at the track? how many events they have gone to and looked horrible? Going fast is not easy. buying a band wagon turbo is not the end all be all in going fast.


PS: at least Larry is out there making it happen, and posting everything good/bad along the way. Not just popping up with some ridiculous dyno number or track time.

example:
i made 400whp on pump, but ill leave out i also blew the motor and had water injection.:rolleyes

 

[95GST]

Larry I'm sure you know by now the fuel trims not set up correctly is a physical problem with your car, as others have been telling you. You have some kind of leak or fuel component problem somewhere. AEM will not help here except to complicate things.

As for WOT tuning, which has very little to do with fuel trims settings, I agree that the AEM will gain you some power since you can customize the reaction to knock. Good point. When the octane is not enough, the DSMLINK/2G ECU will pull the timing right out that you just added.

I think you should try to figure out what is causing the fuel trim problems before you switch to the AEM. I mean your car is not just about going WOT only right? I took me alot of time finding the hose that was just dangling there, and the minor vacuum leak after I have the 6 bolt installed, it has gotten under control, it takes time and alot of datalogging.

 

[larryd]

ok so lets figure this out.. fuel problem wise?

fuel pump - brand new supra pump
fpr - charged air afpr tested at a 1:1 rate on the dyno
injectors - Bosch 650s no leaks

vacuum leaks
I know I have a boost leak somewhere in the throttle body area, thats for sure and I have to fix that.

 

[HighPsi91]

Larry and I have already solved the cause of his fuel trim problems. Those of you that looked at his logs should have found the problem. His air/fuel ratio on the dsmlink is no where near what the wideband showed. It looks like an 02 sensor issue. No wonder he could never get his fuel trims right!


BTW
Some of you guys make it very frusterating to read this and many other threads. I will just leave it at that.

 

[larryd]

we shall see, im just hoping a new o2 sensor fixes it.. I think ima try and swap the GSX and GST sensors and see.

 

[espinelli]

Its pretty easy to criticize and slam others when its not thier money or motor they'll be breaking. Good work LarryD. I say take your time figuring out what you need to do next.

16G @ 375+ HP? I don't think so. How about close to 300 if your lucky with all the supporting mods.

 

[95GST]

Originally posted by HighPsi91
Larry and I have already solved the cause of his fuel trim problems. Those of you that looked at his logs should have found the problem. His air/fuel ratio on the dsmlink is no where near what the wideband showed. It looks like an 02 sensor issue. No wonder he could never get his fuel trims right!

AFAIK the dsmlink A/F ratio is not calculated based on O2 sensor inputs. But installing a known working O2 sensor wouldn't hurt.

 

[dre99gsx]

One word. Get CAMS.

Another one word. 1G Head.

Big turbo really isnt at its potential without good laminar air flow throughout the system.

Back to my cave...

 

[Rx3]

Originally posted by hekaboost
---i'll keep it short. Many tune with dsmlink with more hp then his setup, it works. switching ems's till one works isn't a solution at all. according to your logic if it doesn't work find something that does? then he'd need to switch turbo's and give up on that also since other turbo's that are smaller and gotten better times/dyno results (green turbo). the logic is flawed and i agree that swtich ems's isn't the solution.

That wasn't my logic. My logic was if he couldn't fine tune it the way he wanted to, then he might need a change. From his original statement it sounded that way. The logic isn't flawed. If it was, everyone would tune with an Apexi S-AFC and never bother with a DSMLink or any other system. It's all about fine tuning. Each system has varying levels of it.

 

[Rx3]

Originally posted by larryd




My problems do not revolve around the DSMlink. Do I think Id be better off with a Haltech or AEM EMS, yes I do.
Do I think I can get my car running great with the DSMlink, yes I do. This is my only issue with the DSMlink.
Sometimes to make ALOT of power you have to deal with a small amount of knock, unfortunately with the DSMlink and
the stock ECU as soon as you see knock the timing gets pulled and you can not make the power you want to make. So
effectively you have to tune for 0 knock on the DSMlink which is not what all racers do.

[snip]

Switching tuning tools is not going to resolve anything for me. I need to determine why my LTFTs are incorrect and
what my IDT should be set at. Once I get that resolved then I can go to town with the DSMlink. I would have to do
this same thing on every other setup as well. My only beef with the DSMlink is listed above. And here me say it now
Im not badmouthing the DSMlink nor am I badmouthing the L2r. Its a me issue. I am laerning to do this all as Im
going along and I dont expect to hit superb #s my first time trying to tune on the dyno.

That's all that needed to be said. His former post was a bit vague on this but now he's explained it better.

I agree, this should not be a thread about better turbo or better EMS, and I'm not sure why it seems to be turning into one. I for one am grateful for Larry's "problems" because I'm sure I will run into them at some point with my setup, and watching the process of trying to solve the problem is a learning experience in itself. I would hope that LArry and others continue posts like these.

 

[larryd]

your grateful for my problems?? thanks

and Dre.. the cams are definitely in the works but Id rather stick with the 2g ported head if I can.

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by larryd
your grateful for my problems?? thanks

and Dre.. the cams are definitely in the works but Id rather stick with the 2g ported head if I can.

I don't blame you. There is a reason you have such a high torque number.

 

[LILGSX96]

Myself i put to the wheels on a small 16g 357 whp I also did a 12.21 @114 on a stock 2g head and stock 2g bottom end with a AFC/ VPC combo. I now have a 6bolt and a GT30 turbo and haltech, We are hopeing for 500+ at 26 psi.

Luke Reeder

 

[GSTwkd]

LILGSX96---Myself i put to the wheels on a small 16g 357 whp I also did a 12.21 @114 on a stock 2g head and stock 2g bottom end with a AFC/ VPC combo.

Are you serious I thought big16G's were rated for 350-375hp to the crank. 357whp would be like 420+hp for awd and 395hp on a fwd. How many cfms or lb/min would that take to achieve that hp? I just dont see that possible with a small 16g on any set-up let alone yours at the time you say. Sorry bro but something doesn't sound right.

Anyways, I think its Larry's o2 sensor cause his readings at the dyno were way off(I was there). Larry seems to have most of the bases covered. Larry's getting there and I know he wont quit(you wont quit right ). Keep up the good

 

[larryd]

Im not a quitter

 

[hekaboost]

I know this isn't pc, but this is NOT meant as a spam or put down to you larry. I've talked to several guys with these turbo's and everyone hasn't got a big gain from them and one guy has gone 4mph slower on it. If so far nobody has done well with them I see no reason to hype them up one bit. In fact I personally feel they are currently the new mutt's but come bb so you can tell your friends. if the numbers/results change then my opinion will also, but not until then. I have a feeling the exhaust wheel is too small for the intake wheel and they base their "xx turbo does xx hp" based on the intake wheel and the spool based off the exhaust wheel. the problem is the exhaust wheel is then too restrictive. that would explain why everyone loves the spool, but hates their times or dyno numbers. If they can't get a larger exhaust wheel in that mitsu housing then that would explain why fp is doing their own housing for it. I'm just trying to put two and two together there and so far the data supports it. Hopefully it will be what you want and you can work it all out though...best of luck

 

[DSMu4ia]

Originally posted by GSTwkd
LILGSX96---Myself i put to the wheels on a small 16g 357 whp I also did a 12.21 @114 on a stock 2g head and stock 2g bottom end with a AFC/ VPC combo.

Are you serious I thought big16G's were rated for 350-375hp to the crank. 357whp would be like 420+hp for awd and 395hp on a fwd. How many cfms or lb/min would that take to achieve that hp? I just dont see that possible with a small 16g on any set-up let alone yours at the time you say. Sorry bro but something doesn't sound right.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but yes, 16g's can put down right around 350whp tops on race gas and some decent mods.

300whp on pump gas and a 16g is fairly easy.

As for Larry's dyno numbers, you should be able to see how much his HP jumped up with the knock gone.

Knock limits timing, and timing = power.

If he would have got more aggressive with the tune, and some other things, he could have seen over 400whp fairly easily.

Oh, and I laugh at the thought of someone trying an AEM when they are having problems with a DSMlink. Tackle ONE problem at a time.

 

[TSi92]

Originally posted by dre99gsx
One word. Get CAMS.

Another one word. 1G Head.

Big turbo really isnt at its potential without good laminar air flow throughout the system.

Back to my cave...

Damn I completely ignored the fact he might be running stock 2G head and intake manyfold. Larry if you still have stock 2G head, you should upgrade to a 1G head or hog the hell out of your 2G head. Good flowing head gives better results than cams.

 

[TSi92]

Originally posted by GSTwkd
LILGSX96---Myself i put to the wheels on a small 16g 357 whp I also did a 12.21 @114 on a stock 2g head and stock 2g bottom end with a AFC/ VPC combo.

Are you serious I thought big16G's were rated for 350-375hp to the crank. 357whp would be like 420+hp for awd and 395hp on a fwd. How many cfms or lb/min would that take to achieve that hp? I just dont see that possible with a small 16g on any set-up let alone yours at the time you say. Sorry bro but something doesn't sound right.

He has the timeslips and dyno sheets to prove it. I know Luke and he's been a dsmer for a long time. Trying to put him down like a ricer punk is just insulting, especially comming from somebody that has maybe a 1/4 of his DSM experience.

I don't believe in hp ratings when it comes to turbos. Why in the hell did that way of measuring turbo efficiency is accepted? Beats the hell out of me. Honestly it confuses me when somebody is trying to sell a "500 hp turbo" WTF is that crap? 500 hp on what engine and/or settup? Nevermind I'm just ranting here...

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

Originally posted by larryd
Im not a quitter

Congrats dood on making it happen and getting back on the horse after getting booted off.. Best way to learn is to just do it, I envy you.

 

[GoFastTSI]

Some of you guys make it very frusterating to read this and many other threads. I will just leave it at that.

This is the very reason why I do not post much on the board anymore. The moderation of threads leaves much to be desired.

On topic, congrats on the numbers Larry. I know some things have been a bit of a "challenge" as far as your learning curve and listening to people's suggestions. Listen to whatever Wes has to say and you'll have everything ironed out.

 

[autronicDSM]

Originally posted by TSi92

I don't believe in hp ratings when it comes to turbos. Why in the hell did that way of measuring turbo efficiency is accepted? Beats the hell out of me. Honestly it confuses me when somebody is trying to sell a "500 hp turbo" WTF is that crap? 500 hp on what engine and/or settup? Nevermind I'm just ranting here...

all it matters is how fast you go down the track

 

[LASERLX]

Originally posted by autronicDSM


all it matters is how fast you go down the track

I agree with this. Stop being a dyno racer and take your car with 380 rwhp bolt on some slicks and run some 11s at the track and shut all these tools up.

 

[sunflashx]

I'm not sure about the exact relation of the cams, but my car originally had 1990 model year cams in it.

The car used to have a very fine line on the top end between sputtering like it was way too rich and knocking. It behaved the same with my old Big16g and the L2r. Also remained the same between 550's and 660's.

Upon upgrading to 264/272's the tunability of the car increased greatly. That fine line went away and I was left with a whole range of being just plain too rich without the sputtering issue. When the car was tuned for 0 knock my first gear would also sputter also.

All my wierd tuning issues I could never sort out went away when I got rid of the 1990 model year cams. The car just plain runs better in all rpm bands at all boost levels all the time. FYI, I just checked CAPS, the 1990 Intake Cam has a replacement part # issued for it, and the exhaust cam part # was only used on 1990 cars. I think there's a whole slew of 1g cams out there, and I don't know the full story on the differences in 1g cams.

Point of the story is that in my personal experience 1990 model year cams suck. For sh!ts and giggles you should try another set of 1g cams (1993-1994) if you don't have the cash for HKS's right away.

 

[sunflashx]

For those of you who haven't seen this, here is all three of Larry's turbo setups on the dyno mapped out on the same sheet. I didn't see it posted in this thread yet, so here it is.

http://www.newcelica.org/larryd/dyno/dyno-comparison.jpg

204 HP -> 264 HP -> 384 HP

He seems to be doing quite well when compared to his own previous bests, instead of being comapred to the 1 out of 20 guys who goes freaky fast for his given mods list and is regarded as the industry standard of "how it is".