Dynoed Today (AGP L2R)

[Airpoppoff]

nice numbers larry

 

[rollaway]

310whp is really good...ppl who say that they were dissapointed on the l2r never really gotten in a 310whp car before... im impressed... but i think my friend's talon had like 340+ whp wit his 20g... but im not sure.. i'll ask him tomorrow what the #s were....

 

[larryd]

who said 310?? i said I got 270whp at 17psi and 383whp at 28si

 

[ILOSE]

Good numbers on C16, but the pump gas could you some work. This is where combination and tuning comes into play. Don't worry you'll get it there. Whereever that may be for you.
Larry you said on pump that it pulled 6deg. But what were that actual timing readings. Maybe I missed it. But I would shoot for 18-19 degs. anything more really hasn't proven to be worth the extra horses it may provide.

To ya'll retardes that have nothing but negative comments, you need to dyno your car and see what really goes on. Some of ya'll have the mentality that a certain turbo is an instent amount of HP. yes there have been some 16gs to do near 400, but do you think you could do that? I think not! The exception is not the rule.

Lastly, dynoing in 3rd and 4th as larry has stated is not much different. So it is kinda pointless.

 

[Geovannie]

Why are some of you trying to sound like the turbo is the problem here? Low dyno #s oh blame the turbo.

The #s are good, not the best but I bet half the people making dumb comments could not make anywhere near that. Like Kevin said in the first post, the tq #s are great but something is making power fall off dramatically on the top end. Find out what is going on and fix it.

 

[Geovannie]

Also, why not raise fuel pressure a bit and retune? You mentioned maxing out your injectors but if your only running stock fuel pressure your definately not maxing out your injectors.

 

[McGruffAWD]

I agree with Geo on that one to. Lets stop blaming the turbo. The turbo can preform..something tho is keeping it back. Basing your decisson on one run by one person that is admiting to tuning issues is retarded. Dont worry larry you will get there eventually.

 

[GRNDSM]

Larry,


Good numbers!

Looking at your graph, I think that you could definitely benefit from bigger cams and intake manifold...

At this point, you would have to shift around 6500-7000rpms. Which is pretty early for the rest of your mods.

Leon
RR

 

[95talontsi]

I think many people overestimate the power of DSM's. Sure they are quick powerful cars, but they are only 4 cylnders and 2.0 of power, pushing 400hp is like 200hp per litre is which is amazing, I'm sure the l2r can be tuned for more power and cams and a better intake manifold will really help you there. look at my mod list and you probably will laugh. But my boss races big blocks and has a grand national which is well into the 10's he is pretty knowledgable about turbo cars, used to build rx-7's in the 80's . he is impressed by dsm's but really there is a limit and a big 16g I would be surprised if it made over 350hp but then I bet you are putting it to max boost and probably pingin like crazy.

 

[SPEEDY]

Awesome numbers Larry! You have gained a 100 whp compared to what you dynoed at with the FP Big28. 280 whp compared to 380 whp. That car has got to be a beast. Thumbs up!!

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Well It defintley can make the power.

I thought you had crower cams?

 

[Violater101]

He did, but took them out I think. I can vouch for the fact that tuning isn't easy on pump gas. I wouldn't be blaming the turbo because there are alot of factors that come into play. Sure, its easy to say what you should be making hp wise, but getting there is half the battle.

 

[rubbersidedown]

i dunno if you already answered this question larryd but i just don't feel like reading the entire thread... but where do you buy your pump gas from?

 

[Thrawn]

You can really see where the 90 cams start to die. When you race, do you shift at 8500? I would like to see the results with your crower cams or some 272/272's.

 

[mrmadmax]

Originally posted by Fathouse
Well, to get true HP figure's you must dyno in your 1:1 gear, which in most car's is 4th gear.

Fathouse

I don't think 5 speed manual DSM trannys have a 1:1 gear ratio in any range...

larryd: Just out of curiosity, what are your cams set at (relative to the stock setting)? Are they Advanced? Retarded? How far? Did you check it with a degree wheel and dial indicator, or just rely on the marks? I haven't done any cam/dyno work on DSM's yet but I've done a bit on turbo ZX6R engines (I know, very different, but the same concepts), and I've found that you can make some significant gains on top end if you are willing to deal with a little bottom end lag. I also found that an over advanced intake cam can cause a knock in the midrange.

Anyway, just curious...

 

[GSX4LIFE]

Its amazing how many haters there are out there There is nothing wrong with his turbo. There is nothing wrong with my turbo. Its not as easya s many of you think to put a car on a dyno and make 400whp. There are few people running big power on low psi. I was a little lower on boost(372whp at 25psi) But my car ahs cams and has been running great for awhile. And to everyone that is dissapointed with this turbo, I gained 25whp(thats wheel Horsepower) withonly 1psi increase from 24psi-25psi. But i guess thats not impressive at all

 

[SOURCE1064]

I totally agree with Dave. Everyone who thinks that you just slap on parts and you will have a magical 400hp, it is not that easy without proper tuning and dyno time. What cars are rated at and what they put down at the wheel are totally different. I put down 205 with my truck which is stock rated 260hp and I have mods on it although my dynoing wasn’t as accurate at the manual guys. It feels fast for a 5700lb truck and all but I was a little surprised how low the hp was, stock at the wheels should have been 208hp. I saw the dyno guy, Josh, do the conversion so at the crank Larry made 482.5hp and Dave made 465hp. The conversion of the stock 210hp at the crank is 168hp to the wheels. Dave would have definitely had over 400hp easily on his L2R at the wheel which would be over 500hp at the crank. Just because your car feels fast does not mean is has as much hp as you guesstimate.

 

[NJGSX96]

First off, nice numbers Larry. Glad to see the car is finally coming around. Next up is you need to tune that beast a little better on pump. 270 is respectable, but is lackin somewhere. You'll get it though. Stick with it!

Second of all, this board just pisses me off sometimes... regarding the people who say people are "hatin' on AGP and their turbos", you have it all wrong. No offense to anyone here, but this board is filled with the most AGP wh0res I have ever seen. So many people say nothing but rave things how the L2R will support 500HP+, how it is equivalent to a Green, how it is better than a 50trim, so on and so forth. People come on this board and are bombarded with all this info from people who don't even own the stupid turbo and then see a dyno sheet that says 383WHP, so they wonder what's up. They are expecting that 400+WHP pull from the dyno, the pull that translates to 550BHP. From all over, they hear of people running Greens like Andre who dynos over 400WHP on pump. They know of people dynoing 397WHP on their 50trims, they hear about the good ol' 20G laying down 350-400+WHP all the time. They come here and it is pro-AGP and names are thrown around of turbos that the L2R is better than so when they see 383, they expected more. That is why you get the "There must be something wrong with the turbo". What no one does is take the time to explain, even though this board was started to help out everyone, from newb to expert.

Now, AGP does make a great turbo. They seem like a great bunch of guys, they are willing to help and they stand by there products. I want to make sure no one reads this post as the guy bashing AGP becuase I am not. I know people running their turbos and they love them.

To the people who want to know what's up with the turbo, you need to understand something.... First, when you see AGP post that the turbo can support XX amount of HP (and this goes for all vendors) or some guys cut and pastes numbers from the AGP website of what a turbo can do, this means that with ALL the supporting mods and the car in an excellent, almost perfect, state of tune, that number is possible. They usually also say BHP, which is really meant to be from the crank. WHP, what you get from the dyno, is after drivetrain loss. HP numbers at the crank would be more. So if a car is putting down 400WHP, it is pushing more like 460-480HP at the crank, due to the loss of power going through the drivetrain. So you need to pay attention to the designation, whether it be whel HP or not. Second, Larry has had a lot of trouble with his car and pretty much started over. It is tuned OK, is running stock cams, but has some ways to go to be considered "maxxed out" or tuned excellent. However, 383WHP is a hell of a pull and a hell of a number to lay down. With some more tuning he WILL see over 400WHP. Add another set of cams, like the crowers he had, an intake, etc and tune that setup, the number will only go up. Building a car is much more complicated than slapping on parts and hitting the dyno. You need to pick the right parts, install everything properly, have your car running and maintained perfect, tuned perfect. There is a lot more too it than most think and that is why you get comments of "maybe the turbo is bad".

Sorry for the rant. I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

[GoSpeedRacerGo]

Larry, if possible can you send me the logs plz. [email protected]

 

[Tevenor]

Frankly, I am surprised you were even able to drive the damn thing to the dyno with as much trouble as you have had with that car.

Good numbers. better will come I am sure once you get all the bugs worked out. It takes time.

 

[TSi92]

Originally posted by larryd
a stretch, more like imaginary

Hmmm One of my friends Luke Reeder (LilGSX96) dynoed over 350 on a SMALL 16G. 375 on a big 16G is very possible.

Honestly I'm not impressed with your numbers. Sure it's close to 400 whp, but for all that hype about the AGP turbos I was expecting more like 500+ whp at that much boost pressure, maybe your stock 1G cams is the bottleneck but then again I've seen some impressive numbers out of stock cams with smaller turbos. I've seen 20g's pull off those same numbers you got with less boost.

 

[95GST]

I think the numbers are great after all the trouble that you had and stock cams is respectable.

those of you who think the numbers aren't great.. what do you run on what turbo?

Do you mind posting the logs of your dyno on pump and race gas somewhere.. let's see what's going on.

Is the pump gas 93 octane or 91?

 

[AWDLATIN]

Originally posted by NJGSX96
First off, nice numbers Larry. Glad to see the car is finally coming around. Next up is you need to tune that beast a little better on pump. 270 is respectable, but is lackin somewhere. You'll get it though. Stick with it!

Second of all, this board just pisses me off sometimes... regarding the people who say people are "hatin' on AGP and their turbos", you have it all wrong. No offense to anyone here, but this board is filled with the most AGP wh0res I have ever seen. So many people say nothing but rave things how the L2R will support 500HP+, how it is equivalent to a Green, how it is better than a 50trim, so on and so forth. People come on this board and are bombarded with all this info from people who don't even own the stupid turbo and then see a dyno sheet that says 383WHP, so they wonder what's up. They are expecting that 400+WHP pull from the dyno, the pull that translates to 550BHP. From all over, they hear of people running Greens like Andre who dynos over 400WHP on pump. They know of people dynoing 397WHP on their 50trims, they hear about the good ol' 20G laying down 350-400+WHP all the time. They come here and it is pro-AGP and names are thrown around of turbos that the L2R is better than so when they see 383, they expected more. That is why you get the "There must be something wrong with the turbo". What no one does is take the time to explain, even though this board was started to help out everyone, from newb to expert.

Now, AGP does make a great turbo. They seem like a great bunch of guys, they are willing to help and they stand by there products. I want to make sure no one reads this post as the guy bashing AGP becuase I am not. I know people running their turbos and they love them.

To the people who want to know what's up with the turbo, you need to understand something.... First, when you see AGP post that the turbo can support XX amount of HP (and this goes for all vendors) or some guys cut and pastes numbers from the AGP website of what a turbo can do, this means that with ALL the supporting mods and the car in an excellent, almost perfect, state of tune, that number is possible. They usually also say BHP, which is really meant to be from the crank. WHP, what you get from the dyno, is after drivetrain loss. HP numbers at the crank would be more. So if a car is putting down 400WHP, it is pushing more like 460-480HP at the crank, due to the loss of power going through the drivetrain. So you need to pay attention to the designation, whether it be whel HP or not. Second, Larry has had a lot of trouble with his car and pretty much started over. It is tuned OK, is running stock cams, but has some ways to go to be considered "maxxed out" or tuned excellent. However, 383WHP is a hell of a pull and a hell of a number to lay down. With some more tuning he WILL see over 400WHP. Add another set of cams, like the crowers he had, an intake, etc and tune that setup, the number will only go up. Building a car is much more complicated than slapping on parts and hitting the dyno. You need to pick the right parts, install everything properly, have your car running and maintained perfect, tuned perfect. There is a lot more too it than most think and that is why you get comments of "maybe the turbo is bad".

Sorry for the rant. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Words out of my own mouth. Great post. LARRYD, what are you using to tune your car? DSMLINK, EMS? Nonetheless, very impressive numbers. Let us know what you have on pump. I'm sure sooner or later you'll be getting those numbers on less PSI.

 

[AWDLATIN]

Originally posted by TSi92


Hmmm One of my friends Luke Reeder (LilGSX96) dynoed over 350 on a SMALL 16G. 375 on a big 16G is very possible.

This is true. Mike W. from RRE pumped out 350 with his race car on a big16. That car was still laying the smack down on porsches.

R.I.P.<---RRE's race car.

 

[AWDLATIN]

Originally posted by TSi92
Honestly I'm not impressed with your numbers. Sure it's close to 400 whp, but for all that hype about the AGP turbos I was expecting more like 500+ whp at that much boost pressure, maybe your stock 1G cams is the bottleneck but then again I've seen some impressive numbers out of stock cams with smaller turbos. I've seen 20g's pull off those same numbers you got with less boost.

Well...give him more time. There is Plenty of room to work with.