Dynoed Today (AGP L2R)

[jdmawd]

i once heard of a guy that made 600 hp on a 17c turbo at 10 psi

Great numbers Larry and congrats to Dave also. Im not going to sit behind my computer, and make wise remarks about the numbers that you guys have put up. what other people have made, with other setups and turbo's is not relevant to this topic. Larry's 383 and Dave's 372 is damn impressive. Dave picked up 25whp with the increase of 1 psi im sure if this was a BAND WAGON TURBO thread. it would be all pats on the back, and high fives. those who criticize these guys, I ask *what have you done?* looks like bench racing at its finest congrats to Larry and Dave lets see the haters, go out and make 374/383 anything at any psi.??? exactly

 

[AWDLATIN]

I agree

 

[hostile]

Originally posted by GSX4LIFE
Its amazing how many haters there are out there There is nothing wrong with his turbo. There is nothing wrong with my turbo. Its not as easya s many of you think to put a car on a dyno and make 400whp. There are few people running big power on low psi. I was a little lower on boost(372whp at 25psi) But my car ahs cams and has been running great for awhile. And to everyone that is dissapointed with this turbo, I gained 25whp(thats wheel Horsepower) withonly 1psi increase from 24psi-25psi. But i guess thats not impressive at all

Isn't your car awd and his fwd. So of course it should be lower...

 

[CH152]

Makes me wanna to upgrade my turbo realy quicker here. 383 whp #@%#@%#@%#@%!!! Thats like well a lot compared to my killer T25. Whoop whoop, yeah i am going for the Big 16G from FP. Shew i only wish i had about 3 grand lying around here. But hey i am from kentucky what can you expect?

 

[jw]

Nice numbers Larry. I am sure there are 101 reasons why the car wasnt up to your expectation. Work on your issues first and slowly eliminate the problems you have. I am sure you will see better numbers when you fix the problems.

 

[Turbodenz]

congrates on the #'s larry i have a 98 gst and i realy like your set up and want to try to build my car around yours....hope you dont mind im slow at tunning so it might be awhile...so keep up the great job on your car and i hope you hit the magic 400whp or whatever you are looling for

 

[Phoenix_RsX]

Good numbers man. I know it wasn't what you were expecting, but good numbers anyway. it's killing me how these guys here are trying to talk smack. I'm guessing since AGP says you can get 550 hp, that all we gotta do is just throw it in and well have it. obviously ppl have been watching too much F+F. I'm still running stock, and I was able to pull 14.7 with prob only 160-170 whp......you're at 383whp.....I could only imagine what you'd run. Good job man, and if 400+whp is what you want, then I'm sure you'll get it. later

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
Larry,


Good numbers!

Looking at your graph, I think that you could definitely benefit from bigger cams and intake manifold...

At this point, you would have to shift around 6500-7000rpms. Which is pretty early for the rest of your mods.

Leon
RR

I agree.. I think I could definitely use a set of cams which will be my next investment when I do the engien swap from the GST to my GSX.. Im gonna pick up a set of HKS 264/272s

Id like to get a sheet metal intake manifold but I dont see the funds for that anywhere in my near future.

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by rubbersidedown
i dunno if you already answered this question larryd but i just don't feel like reading the entire thread... but where do you buy your pump gas from?

the pump gas is 93 or 94 octane and I get it from whatever gas station is closest at the time I need gas like Exon, Texaco, Sunoco, Amaco etc etc..

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by mrmadmax



I don't think 5 speed manual DSM trannys have a 1:1 gear ratio in any range...

larryd: Just out of curiosity, what are your cams set at (relative to the stock setting)? Are they Advanced? Retarded? How far? Did you check it with a degree wheel and dial indicator, or just rely on the marks? I haven't done any cam/dyno work on DSM's yet but I've done a bit on turbo ZX6R engines (I know, very different, but the same concepts), and I've found that you can make some significant gains on top end if you are willing to deal with a little bottom end lag. I also found that an over advanced intake cam can cause a knock in the midrange.

Anyway, just curious...

the cams are set at stock setting. I have a set of Crower cam gears on them only becuase I had the crower cams in the car at one point in time and I figured I would keep them for the future becuase I know cams were coming again someday.

I dont believe that Wes actually degrees the cams, I mean you really shouldnt have to since they are stock 90 cams should you??

The whole reason I got rid of my Crower cams in the first place was because I had NO bottom end power. I mean like I could barely get up hills from a dead stop. I wanted to eliminate things from my setup one by one until I got the car straightened out and Im back on the way up now.

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by NJGSX96
First off, nice numbers Larry. Glad to see the car is finally coming around. Next up is you need to tune that beast a little better on pump. 270 is respectable, but is lackin somewhere. You'll get it though. Stick with it!

Second of all, this board just pisses me off sometimes... regarding the people who say people are "hatin' on AGP and their turbos", you have it all wrong. No offense to anyone here, but this board is filled with the most AGP wh0res I have ever seen. So many people say nothing but rave things how the L2R will support 500HP+, how it is equivalent to a Green, how it is better than a 50trim, so on and so forth. People come on this board and are bombarded with all this info from people who don't even own the stupid turbo and then see a dyno sheet that says 383WHP, so they wonder what's up. They are expecting that 400+WHP pull from the dyno, the pull that translates to 550BHP. From all over, they hear of people running Greens like Andre who dynos over 400WHP on pump. They know of people dynoing 397WHP on their 50trims, they hear about the good ol' 20G laying down 350-400+WHP all the time. They come here and it is pro-AGP and names are thrown around of turbos that the L2R is better than so when they see 383, they expected more. That is why you get the "There must be something wrong with the turbo". What no one does is take the time to explain, even though this board was started to help out everyone, from newb to expert.

Now, AGP does make a great turbo. They seem like a great bunch of guys, they are willing to help and they stand by there products. I want to make sure no one reads this post as the guy bashing AGP becuase I am not. I know people running their turbos and they love them.

To the people who want to know what's up with the turbo, you need to understand something.... First, when you see AGP post that the turbo can support XX amount of HP (and this goes for all vendors) or some guys cut and pastes numbers from the AGP website of what a turbo can do, this means that with ALL the supporting mods and the car in an excellent, almost perfect, state of tune, that number is possible. They usually also say BHP, which is really meant to be from the crank. WHP, what you get from the dyno, is after drivetrain loss. HP numbers at the crank would be more. So if a car is putting down 400WHP, it is pushing more like 460-480HP at the crank, due to the loss of power going through the drivetrain. So you need to pay attention to the designation, whether it be whel HP or not. Second, Larry has had a lot of trouble with his car and pretty much started over. It is tuned OK, is running stock cams, but has some ways to go to be considered "maxxed out" or tuned excellent. However, 383WHP is a hell of a pull and a hell of a number to lay down. With some more tuning he WILL see over 400WHP. Add another set of cams, like the crowers he had, an intake, etc and tune that setup, the number will only go up. Building a car is much more complicated than slapping on parts and hitting the dyno. You need to pick the right parts, install everything properly, have your car running and maintained perfect, tuned perfect. There is a lot more too it than most think and that is why you get comments of "maybe the turbo is bad".

Sorry for the rant. I'll get off my soapbox now.

thankyou for the good post..

This is how I see it. I am not one of the members on the board who hypes the L2R and says it is the god send of turbos. I got it because my Big28 blew up and I wanted to step up to something bigger/better and it was between this and the Green. Im happy with my choice regardless.

I dont know what the people on this site are really expecting to see out of my setup, my personal goal was to hit 350whp, once i got there I was giving it all I got to try and get 400whp. Granted I had to run 28psi to get there but something that no one asked about was my timing. I only had 17 deg of timing advance from 6-8k on that run which is where the max power was made, im sure if I could have backed off the boost a couple lbs and icnreased the timing a couple degrees I would have made the same if not more power on less boost. Its all in tuning and its a lengthy lengthy thing.

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by TSi92


Hmmm One of my friends Luke Reeder (LilGSX96) dynoed over 350 on a SMALL 16G. 375 on a big 16G is very possible.

Honestly I'm not impressed with your numbers. Sure it's close to 400 whp, but for all that hype about the AGP turbos I was expecting more like 500+ whp at that much boost pressure, maybe your stock 1G cams is the bottleneck but then again I've seen some impressive numbers out of stock cams with smaller turbos. I've seen 20g's pull off those same numbers you got with less boost.

what hype.. who gives a crap about what anyone says about any turbo or its capabilities.. why cant people just be happy for me that I actually got 383whp my first time to the dyno, i was pretty damn happy..

and Ill give you that people can make the power on the 16G but its not a common occurance. That turbo is maxing out around that power, I still have stock cams, a boost leak, a 1g intake manifold, and im barely tuned.

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by AWDLATIN


Words out of my own mouth. Great post. LARRYD, what are you using to tune your car? DSMLINK, EMS? Nonetheless, very impressive numbers. Let us know what you have on pump. I'm sure sooner or later you'll be getting those numbers on less PSI.

yes im working with the DSMlink.. I am still having all sorts of trouble getting the baseline fuel settings and injector dead time set with the DSMlink. This is part of my problem.

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by jdmawd
i once heard of a guy that made 600 hp on a 17c turbo at 10 psi

Great numbers Larry and congrats to Dave also. Im not going to sit behind my computer, and make wise remarks about the numbers that you guys have put up. what other people have made, with other setups and turbo's is not relevant to this topic. Larry's 383 and Dave's 372 is damn impressive. Dave picked up 25whp with the increase of 1 psi im sure if this was a BAND WAGON TURBO thread. it would be all pats on the back, and high fives. those who criticize these guys, I ask *what have you done?* looks like bench racing at its finest congrats to Larry and Dave lets see the haters, go out and make 374/383 anything at any psi.??? exactly

exactly. you know I could care less of joe schmoe comes on here and says I put down 400whp with my T25.. Ill say damn man thats awesome.. but the fact that everyone thinks i should be making some insane # are just talking out their a**es.. Unless you have this setup and you know the amount of work that goes into tuning something like this I think you should keep all your negative comments to yourself.

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by hostile



Isn't your car awd and his fwd. So of course it should be lower...

it was a FWD dyno, they convereted the AWD cars to FWD so the #s would be damned close.

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by Phoenix_RsX
Good numbers man. I know it wasn't what you were expecting, but good numbers anyway. it's killing me how these guys here are trying to talk smack. I'm guessing since AGP says you can get 550 hp, that all we gotta do is just throw it in and well have it. obviously ppl have been watching too much F+F. I'm still running stock, and I was able to pull 14.7 with prob only 160-170 whp......you're at 383whp.....I could only imagine what you'd run. Good job man, and if 400+whp is what you want, then I'm sure you'll get it. later

Actually I was expecting about that believe it or not. I dont know why everyone and their brother thinks I was goign to make more then that but I know both Dave and I were happy with our results. I would like 400whp with a little less boost, will I get there YES..

The fact that AGPs site says 550hp, thats crank hp.. 550-15% drivetrain loss is 467.5 whp.. I made 383whp which is around 450 crank hp assuming the same drivetrain loss. the 550bhp is also assuming you can flow the 54lbs/min of air flow with every available mod including cams, intake manifold etc etc etc with a perfect tune. Considering I was only flowing 44lbs/min of air flow Id say I did pretty good. If I was able to et another 10lbs/min out of the setup Id hit 450 whp easily.

 

[larryd]

if you want to see the DSMlink log in HTML ive uploaded it to my webserver at http://www.newcelica.org/larryd/log/12072002.htm

thanks to all the people who helped me out, made suggestions or just gave me props..

to all the nay sayers.. when you run 383whp come talk to me..

 

[turbotalon92]

Great job Larry, you are right there with my numbers, with a lot less. I hope to get some better tuning and see some bigger numbers myself.
Check out my gallery if you want to compare dyno sheets and mods. You are doing great

Chris

 

[candela]

WOW!!! What a car..... very nice Chris!

 

[larryd]

very nice chris.. I love your car

 

[Dannyboy1201]

WOW Larry dammm man GREAT numbers. You got my Respect

 

[sleeper142]

Originally posted by larryd


what hype.. who gives a crap about what anyone says about any turbo or its capabilities.. why cant people just be happy for me that I actually got 383whp my first time to the dyno, i was pretty damn happy..

and Ill give you that people can make the power on the 16G but its not a common occurance. That turbo is maxing out around that power, I still have stock cams, a boost leak, a 1g intake manifold, and im barely tuned.

350+ seems like quite a bit for any 16'gd car, however i recently dynoed on my big 16g, and managed 313 hp and 335 tq. In my opinion that was quite low. Although people tell me thats about average. I have also recently been having the same knocking issues that larryd has been having, i have not had the chance to take alook at them yet. i dynoed at 25 psi on my turbo, and im running almost teh same setup larryd except with hks 264/272 cams. after 7k the boost dropped down to 22 or so. however i just purchased a green turbo, and will be gettin a 272 intake cam and some 720's as well, hopefully with some good tuning ill see #'s in the 400+ range. congrats on your dyno larry, with the knockin problems that you were having that is still amazing that you pulled that off with no knock i for one am pretty frustrated with my knocking problems, so i know how you feel.
good luck to you

 

[NJGSX96]

Not sure if you mentioned this or someone else asked, but did they plug in the wideband? What did your O2s look like?

 

[herostar]

good job larry, are you going to tune it befor/after you swap it?

 

[tsitalon1]

Larry, I don't know if you thought of this but there was no airflow for cooling across your Ic when you did the dyno runs.. Place a Large fan in front of the Ic and try again on pump gas... good luck,
James