Dipstick Dip Stick popped, popping, blow, blowing, blew out [Merged]

[scrcco]

I just installed a different head after my timing belt went. Everything is back together and the break-in period is over. Last night i revved past 5,000 rpm. for the first time and noticed it was struggling, I let off at 5,500. Then a riced-out Honda cruised by so i stepped on it, went to about 6,000 rpm's, now theres a huge cloud of smoke behind my car. I opened the hood to notice my dipstick shot up, and oil sprayed all over the underneath of my hood, then dripped all over the motor and exhaust. What could be the problem? I already replaced the PCV valve and does the same thing???

 

[willnatale]

I just got new valves and seals so after I do the pcv valve and the check valve I really hope its not rings I just put the motor back together.

 

[Calan]

I just put the motor back together.

New bottom end, or just the head?

If the bottom was rebuilt, how did you break it in? How many miles are on it?

 

[2slow4now]

+ ^ again on the check valve. They do work great. I used some of these hose clamp covers in a 6-an size to make it look good too. Hose Clamp Cover Included - Worm gear - Hose Clamps - SummitRacing.com

I got the Fragola ones in black to match up to my black hose and an fittings.

 

[willnatale]

The heads been rebuilt and honestly there is at most a mile on it I drove it around my block 4 times

I only did the head and there's about a mile on it I went around my block like 4 times

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

Since shipping on the check valve is a bit high for such a cheap part, buy a few of them and sell them on here in the classifieds for $3 shipped in an envelope. It will be cheaper for whoever buys them from you, and you'll actually make a small profit. Not to mention, they are useful to have laying around for other uses on a DSM also.

When I got mine I just ordered 10 for the hell of it since they were so cheap. I ended giving them all away, except one that I used and one I saved for a backup, to other random DSMers I would run into after explaining to them how important this little check valve is.

It really is THAT important, believe it or not.

 

[mattasi]

A brand new motor with nothing wrong at all can still push the dipstick out. Even with a perfect PCV valve it still happens. So the spring kit STM makes does help that, sure I agree, don't spend $55 bucks on that kit. Buy a spring and a hose clamp and do it for a couple bucks, it's not that hard to do. It is NOT a band-aid fix. And it will save oil from spraying everywhere, making a big fire hazzard.

The English Racing 1100hp race car has a spring on the dipstick to hold it down from spraying oil everywhere

 

[Calan]

It is NOT a band-aid fix. And it will save oil from spraying everywhere, making a big fire hazzard.

If you have to clamp down an OEM dipstick that is in good shape to keep it from popping out, then yes.... it IS a band-aid fix. Too much crankcase pressure is bad...even if you can't see it because you've prevented it from escaping from the dipstick tube. Just because the dipstick no longer pops doesn't mean you've fixed anything.

I agree that a spring or some type of clamp is a good idea for insurance against a fire, but it shouldn't be required. Measure the CC pressure and get it lowered to an acceptable level, and then use the spring or a clamp if you want as a safety device.

FWIW, here is the one I made for about $1.00, and IMO it's a lot cleaner than a big spring:

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OP... Notice that your thread has been merged into one that is 13 pages long with over 500 posts on the exact same subject? That is what I was referring to about the searching for answers comment.

 

[mattasi]

If you have to clamp down an OEM dipstick that is in good shape to keep it from popping out, then yes.... it IS a band-aid fix. Too much crankcase pressure is bad...even if you can't see it because you've prevented it from escaping from the dipstick tube. Just because the dipstick no longer pops doesn't mean you've fixed anything.

I agree that a spring or some type of clamp is a good idea for insurance against a fire, but it shouldn't be required. Measure the CC pressure and get it lowered to an acceptable level, and then use the spring or a clamp if you want as a safety device.

Ok then how do you lower the CC pressure on a brand new English Racing, perfect motor, with a RRE oil catch can setup. What is there to fix? If nothing is wrong then your saying that it will not push out my dipstick, I am saying that it will/does. This is normal for these motors. It's what DSMs do.

BTW I like your clamp set-up. Looks nicer than a spring with a hose clamp.

 

[Calan]

If nothing is wrong then your saying that it will not push out my dipstick, I am saying that it will/does. This is normal for these motors. It's what DSMs do.

If there is enough pressure to push out a dipstick (even a loose fitting one), then that is more than there should be...no matter who built the motor. Positive CC pressure bad; negative CC pressure good.

As to whether or not it should/can be "fixed", that is up to personal choice. I imagine anyone running 1000hp is rebuilding the engine often enough that they don't really care about 1 or 2 psi of CC pressure while under full boost. But for me personally, I want as little pressure building up as possible. To each his own.

And...do you think people running these big dog race motors have ever actually taken the time to measure something as trivial as CC pressure? My bet is that they slap a couple of -10 or -12 lines on and run them to an open catch can, toss a spring on the dipstick, and get on down the track. Is that the best solution for us mortals though, or just what works for them?

A common problem in these forums (not aimed at you personally) is that people tend to give or follow advice because it works for Brent or Shep or Jeff or Curt or <insert other DSM monster here>...but there are SO many things about those cars that are beyond ordinary that it's usually like comparing apples to oranges. People with those types of cars and experience will never be in a forum asking about the best way to run a PCV setup or which BOV to use...but people can't seem to grasp that for some reason.

 

[mattasi]

If there is enough pressure to push out a dipstick (even a loose fitting one), then that is more than there should be...no matter who built the motor. Positive CC pressure bad; negative CC pressure good.

As to whether or not it should/can be "fixed", that is up to personal choice. I imagine anyone running 1000hp is rebuilding the engine often enough that they don't really care about 1 or 2 psi of CC pressure while under full boost. But for me personally, I want as little pressure building up as possible. To each his own.

And...do you think people running these big dog race motors have ever actually taken the time to measure something as trivial as CC pressure? My bet is that they slap a couple of -10 or -12 lines on and run them to an open catch can, toss a spring on the dipstick, and get on down the track. Is that the best solution for us mortals though, or just what works for them?

A common problem in these forums (not aimed at you personally) is that people tend to give or follow advice because it works for Brent or Shep or Jeff or Curt or <insert other DSM monster here>...but there are SO many things about those cars that are beyond ordinary that it's usually like comparing apples to oranges. People with those types of cars and experience will never be in a forum asking about the best way to run a PCV setup or which BOV to use...but people can't seem to grasp that for some reason.

I am not saying that crank case pressure is good. The english racing motor doesn't get rebuild often, they have literaly 1000's of runs with the same motor. They talk about it all the time. I think they call the car the "little auto" So what am i suppose to fix then if I wanted to, because you say to fix it is personal choice, but I don't see how that is when everything is perfect on my set-up.

As far as them taking the time to figure this stuff out, I wouldn't be surprized if they gave you a wealth of info on this topic. I would put money on that they have tested this before. (when this is what they do for a living)

And I don't feel as though your comment at the end was directed at me, because I didn't ask you how to run a PVC system or what BOV to use.

 

[Calan]

So what am i suppose to fix then if I wanted to, because you say to fix it is personal choice, but I don't see how that is when everything is perfect on my set-up.

Well if everything is "perfect" on your car, then there is nothing to fix and I have no idea why we are having this conversation.

On the other hand, if you have enough crankcase pressure to lift a dipstick, then everything is not "perfect" on your car and you could work on lowering the CC pressure if you wanted to, to improve seal life and prevent any potential issues with the turbo oil drain. Again, it's a personal choice; I don't really care if you have CC issues one way or the other.

I would put money on that they have tested this before.

If they measured negative pressure, I'd be interested in seeing the setup they used to do it. If they measured positive pressure, I'd be interested to know why they chose to live with it. Regardless, please point me to this test data that you are willing to bet money on; I'd love to see it.

(when this is what they do for a living)

I'm pretty sure the majority of their (and most similar shops') income comes from building and tuning high-performance cars, and selling parts...not optimizing DSMs for drivability or longevity.

 

[DSM1G90]

Oh-oh .. better watch out, or some mud slinging might happen and this thread is gonna get locked up.

Funny how nobody's ever mention of main seals being blown out from these dipsticks being locked down .. unless they got a sure fire way to create negative pressure in the crankcase which makes the clamping down of the dipstick unnecessary.

Why I mention main seals is simply due to a 90 Mitsu 1.8 with high mileage that I used to have a few years ago, totally blew out the front main seal, lost all my oil which soaked everything in sight-including that left front brake rotor and destroyed the motor while cruzing on the freeway at 75mph.

Guess what .. dipstick was almost out completely.

PCV valve was totally plugged.

Yes, it was a tired motor with major blowby in the first place, but didn't expect that PCV valve to plug up from the blowby vapors that quick.

 

[boost97gst]

Ill throw something into this: Im sure all know except me, but for those that dont, the autozone pcv's are complete shit. I tested a couple before i bought it luckily. You can blow through either side no problem. My oem original was far better.

 

[mattasi]

Well if everything is "perfect" on your car, then there is nothing to fix and I have no idea why we are having this conversation.

On the other hand, if you have enough crankcase pressure to lift a dipstick, then everything is not "perfect" on your car and you could work on lowering the CC pressure if you wanted to, to improve seal life and prevent any potential issues with the turbo oil drain. Again, it's a personal choice; I don't really care if you have CC issues one way or the other.

Sad to hear you say that you don't care about if I have a problem or not. I am trying to figure it out, by bouncing things off of you, I always look up to you Calan. I don't know you personaly, but I do respect your advise. Dang, happy friday...

Oh and we are having this conversation because I said that the spring isn't a band aid fix, I am saying it is necessary because these motors love to push out dipsticks making a fire hazzard. Then you said it is a band aid fix. Then I am telling you that I have no choice on CC pressure because my setup (as far as I know) is perfect. So then I asked you what you would change out on my car since you say it is a choice? Then you say you don't care...

If they measured negative pressure, I'd be interested in seeing the setup they used to do it. If they measured positive pressure, I'd be interested to know why they chose to live with it. Regardless, please point me to this test data that you are willing to bet money on; I'd love to see it.

If you go back and read what I said, I said that "I wouldn't be surprized if they gave you a wealth of info on this topic. I would put money on that they have tested this before." I didn't say I had data to show you, and that they did test it, I said I wouldn't be surprized...

I'm pretty sure the majority of their (and most similar shops') income comes from building and tuning high-performance cars, and selling parts...not optimizing DSMs for drivability or longevity.

My info on the dipstick is from them, I talked with them to make my car last longer. Sure they didn't just come out and tell me things about the dipstick and CC pressure. You the customer needs to ask the questions to get what you personaly want from your motor. You the customer has to think about the drivability or longevity, thats what I am here doing, I hope that is understood.

Oh-oh .. better watch out, or some mud slinging might happen and this thread is gonna get locked up.

It's not going to get locked up . I am not here to argue.

 

[NHerron]

Hey Calan, just a quick question here . I read your article on the 4G63T PCV system, and I plan on measuring cc pressure with a map sensor. Have you succeeded in tapping off of the OEM oil fill cap? I have that black plastic one that says Motorad on it with the alignment arrows. It looks like the stock ones I have seen in the junk yards anyway. Also, what range MAP sensor did you use? I was thinking 2bar

My build has about 150 miles on it so far with stock boost Evo16G using Motoman method for break-in. Im curious how long it takes the rings to break in. I figure if cc positive pressure goes down progressively over time, the rings are still breaking in even after 150 miles. I should have set this up before the engine was built to really know if Motoman works but sadly, I did not. I'm satisfied so far because the dipstick is so worn it just kinda sits there but hasn't flown out yet. 2.3l stroker, stock boost but I've ran it HARD up to 7k (7500rpm is my set revlimit)

Thanks

 

[Calan]

Oh-oh .. better watch out, or some mud slinging might happen and this thread is gonna get locked up.

Nah... just some good discussion going on.

Ill throw something into this: Im sure all know except me, but for those that dont, the autozone pcv's are complete shit. I tested a couple before i bought it luckily. You can blow through either side no problem. My oem original was far better.

Even brand new OEM valves leak... which is why the US Plastics check valve is recommended.

Sad to hear you say that you don't care about if I have a problem or not. I am trying to figure it out, by bouncing things off of you, I always look up to you Calan. I don't know you personaly, but I do respect your advise. Dang, happy friday...

Ok, that may have come out a bit wrong. I'm always happy to help people where I can, but at the end of the day it's not going to cause me any loss of sleep if someone doesn't heed other's advice and still has issues with their car. (That's a generalization; not aimed at this discussion in particular).

What I was getting from your posts was that your motor is "perfect" and nothing could be done about the CC pressure, and you were challenging me to explain that impossibility. At that point I lost patience, and is what prompted the comment. I apologize if I totally misinterpreted that.

...these motors love to push out dipsticks making a fire hazzard.

Only if something is wrong, like a worn dipstick or excessive CC pressure. It's not natural for the dipstick to pop; if it does, something is wrong...period.

Then I am telling you that I have no choice on CC pressure because my setup (as far as I know) is perfect.

The "I have no choice" is what confuses me, because there are always ways to resolve issues like this, starting with actually measuring the CC pressure to see what you are dealing with.

Hey Calan, just a quick question here . I read your article on the 4G63T PCV system, and I plan on measuring cc pressure with a map sensor. Have you succeeded in tapping off of the OEM oil fill cap? I have that black plastic one that says Motorad on it with the alignment arrows. It looks like the stock ones I have seen in the junk yards anyway. Also, what range MAP sensor did you use? I was thinking 2bar

I haven't measured from the oil cap, but it should work just fine. I use a tapped fitting where the factory VC breather port is for logging CC pressure, and a tap on my turbo intake for measuring the pull at that point. I use a 2 bar sensor (-14.7 to 15 psi) and log CC pressure in ECMLink for testing purposes.

Im curious how long it takes the rings to break in.

The general consensus is that most metal-to-metal wear on new parts is going to happen at start up and within the first 20 miles or so (once everything is at full temperature), and that is in line with what I've observed over the years.

I'm satisfied so far because the dipstick is so worn it just kinda sits there but hasn't flown out yet. 2.3l stroker, stock boost but I've ran it HARD up to 7k (7500rpm is my set revlimit)

Sounds like a fun car. I would still clamp the dipstick down for safety as we've been discussing, but measure the CC pressure periodically to make sure it is staying at 0 psi or less.

 

[NHerron]

I'm on my phone so it's a major PITA to quote anything.

I appreciate the insight. I have a new flashy oil cap that I'll use so I'll have that OEM one as a spare. I haven't looked real hard at it but at one point I got the idea the plastic might be thick enough for a NPT barb fitting. But like you mentioned, surely tapping off the VC vent would be easier. I also thought about tapping the actual block where the cross drilling is for the radiator side balance shaft. If that makes sense. By the way, since the block would be the very source of the blowby, did you ever think about running an hose for CCV? I'd have to dig up my deep thoughts on how it would work, but since the bearing race can be used as a basis for a baffle, why not? I think its a little cramped in that area for an hose but I think it might be possible. Not sure if it would be worth it, however.

Excuse my ignorance but I have heard rings take several hundred miles and also as little as 20 miles for breakin, via Motoman website. Honestly, with all the hooplah I couldn't tell anyone with firm belief how long the rings take to seat. I really dislike some of the ole wivestales, just because one has good proof and the other ALSO has good proof, and can't pick a side! Haha I hope you know what I mean by that

A tad off subject, but I remember talking to you about what a good breakin oil I could use. Well everything went great and I just got done with the first oil change (I know, a little late being 100 miles) and I used the Napa filter. Well I took the filter apart for close inspection with approximately 100 miles of filtering on it. Since i got really clear pictures of the pleats, I'll be posting a thread with the results. I should have it up in a couple days at most if you wanna drop some thoughts! Thanks again!

 

[DSM1G90]

What FRAMS and cheap, recycled, straight weight, non detergent oils are good for ... getting the motor broke in in a quick since you're doing oil changes real fast ..

 

[steve]

While I'm tempted to go cheap on the filter when I first start up because it's not going to be there long, it seems to me that is the time when the best filter you get. You're most likely to have trash in the oil and you want to catch it before it gets embedded somewhere.

 

[mike orlando]

A spring from the finger hole to the part that bolts to the block is a cheap simple solution that avoids bending any parts.

 

[ErikTande]

I just bought a 1990 GSX and had this problem, glad to see I'm not the only one. Time for a new dipstick and a tune.

 

[ErikTande]

Or... actually fix the problem instead of putting a $55 band-aid on it.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/366890-4g63t-pcv-system.html

I have the problem of my dipstick popping up. Car is completely stock. I need 2 catch cans and 1 check valve to fix this right?

Thanks for the help.

I was going to get 2 of these:

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

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and

order a couple of these (so I have spares)

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[Arnie]

Why does my 420A DD oil stick pop out? Non Turbo. I always get a check oil sign and then I go to check the oil and notice the stick pops out. This has been happening recently and yes I have a few oil leaks.

 

[Jafro]

Well, it's not a good thing, I'll tell you that.

Most likely it's a clogged PCV valve, but it could be worn out rings or valve stem seals. Every time a cylinder goes boom, something's not keeping all the boom in. The boom is ending up in your crankcase and it's more of a boom than your breather system can vent, so it makes a vent by pushing up your dipstick. Replace the PCV valve, and if that doesn't cure it, do a compression test and your answers will be found.

 

[Arnie]

Well, it's not a good thing, I'll tell you that.

Most likely it's a clogged PCV valve, but it could be worn out rings or valve stem seals. Every time a cylinder goes boom, something's not keeping all the boom in. The boom is ending up in your crankcase and it's more of a boom than your breather system can vent, so it makes a vent by pushing up your dipstick. Replace the PCV valve, and if that doesn't cure it, do a compression test and your answers will be found.

Omg it's you! Lol! My bro Mike loves you, and he always watches your videos today we were watching how you put a tranny in. We were having a bit of trouble putting on his 1g awd tranny.

Anyways, thank you for the information and advice. Tomorrow I shall do a compression check and the following.

Thank you Jafro!

-Arnie