Destroyed Valves???

[dsm-junkie]

In a dohc 4g63 head, with cams, rockers, and lifters installed, all 16 valves are never closed at the same time.

That would result in poor compression in one of the cylinders correct?? That doesn't sound like correct information???

 

[bryanwheat]

That would result in poor compression in one of the cylinders correct?? That doesn't sound like correct information???

The information is correct, there will always be valves open with the cam's in.

 

[huafist]

The information is correct, there will always be valves open with the cam's in.

I think he's thinking you're saying there will always be valves open in a particular cylinder.

dsm-junkie, what they're saying is that with the cams in, you will always have valves open in one cylinder - this is true with any engine. However, there is a period for each cylinder when that cylinder's camshaft lobe(s) are on the base circle that results in all of that particular cylinder's valves are closed, resulting in the compression stroke and part of the power stroke. It simply happens at a different time for each cylinder during the 720* of a crankshaft cycle.

 

[dsm-junkie]

I think he's thinking you're saying there will always be valves open in a particular cylinder.

dsm-junkie, what they're saying is that with the cams in, you will always have valves open in one cylinder - this is true with any engine. However, there is a period for each cylinder when that cylinder's camshaft lobe(s) are on the base circle that results in all of that particular cylinder's valves are closed, resulting in the compression stroke and part of the power stroke. It simply happens at a different time for each cylinder during the 720* of a crankshaft cycle.

Sounds good!! So with my dowel pin facing on my intake cam the intake valves of cylinder 3 were open! So then those should be open since cylinder 3 pistons will be bottomed out correct??? Am I saying that correct?? Also do my lifters looked collapsed enough???

 

[goldeninja20]

if your camshafts are installed your valves should be open spin your camshaft,it the valve does not move then i would start to get concerned

This is true. Unless your lifters bleed out all the oil and are not putting pressure on. When you put the head back together, with the lifters blead, The valves will not sick open at all. If the Lifters are not blead then the valve will stick open a hair with the cams in. Just be aware because i thought i had a problem, when in the end i just had to bleed the lifters. This is for those who are not sure why valves may be open.

 

[dsm-junkie]

This is true. Unless your lifters bleed out all the oil and are not putting pressure on. When you put the head back together, with the lifters blead, The valves will not sick open at all. If the Lifters are not blead then the valve will stick open a hair with the cams in. Just be aware because i thought i had a problem, when in the end i just had to bleed the lifters. This is for those who are not sure why valves may be open.

Thanks for the help!! So can the head be be torqued down with some of the valves open?? Or should I just completely bleed out the lifters??? Can a wiseman please share some knowledge? :hell yeah: Or bryanwheat & NHerron??

 

[bryanwheat]

Sounds good!! So with my dowel pin facing on my intake cam the intake valves of cylinder 3 were open! So then those should be open since cylinder 3 pistons will be bottomed out correct??? Am I saying that correct?? Also do my lifters looked collapsed enough???

Just turn the cam and they will close.

 

[NHerron]

Even with lifters properly bled, there will always be *some* valves open. This is because the lifter EVEN AT IT'S LOWEST point is still HIGH enough to TEETER the valves open BUT ONLY when the cam LOBE is facing down (like a see-saw or teeter totter)

If it helps take the rocker arms out and turn the camshaft and imagine things moving

Obviously what you're seeing, the valve is not opening at it's maximum. When oil is run through the engine, it will fill the lifters up and eventually the valves will start to open more and more with time.

 

[dsm-junkie]

Just turn the cam and they will close.

Even with lifters properly bled, there will always be *some* valves open. This is because the lifter EVEN AT IT'S LOWEST point is still HIGH enough to TEETER the valves open BUT ONLY when the cam LOBE is facing down (like a see-saw or teeter totter)

If it helps take the rocker arms out and turn the camshaft and imagine things moving

Obviously what you're seeing, the valve is not opening at it's maximum. When oil is run through the engine, it will fill the lifters up and eventually the valves will start to open more and more with time.

Great!!! Thanks a lot guys!!! So I guess I'm all set and ready to get this motor assembled!! I will chime in after I get the head all put together one last time to make sure I did everything correct!! Thank you all for all the help!!! DSM community is the best community out there!!!

 

[huafist]

Sounds good!! So with my dowel pin facing on my intake cam the intake valves of cylinder 3 were open! So then those should be open since cylinder 3 pistons will be bottomed out correct??? Am I saying that correct?? Also do my lifters looked collapsed enough???

This is correct ; that means that while #1 is completing the compression stroke (approaching TDC with all valves closed), #3 is completing the intake stroke (intake valves opens with the piston approaching BDC), while #2 is on the power stroke, and #4 is on the exhaust stroke (exhaust valves open with piston approaching TDC).

 

[dsm-junkie]

Alright guys! I didn't want to start a whole new thread! So I decided to ask on this one! When I pulled the motor from my car I noticed that there was a piece of the harness that looked like it was completely cut from the harness! So I removed the wire loom and then noticed that they were ground wires! They are both black wires but one has a yellow stripe and the other has a red stripe! Heres a picture of them! I can't find out where there they connected to on both ends? Someone please point me in the right direction! I also can't find anywhere on the harness that looks like it was cut! Its confusing! Also I wanted to know where the bigger wire in the pic was supposed to go! I know one side goes to the tranny but where does the other side go? Thanks guys!!

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[bryanwheat]

One of the cut wires is the power wire to the starter and one is the ground that bolts on to the bellhousing. I assume that they replaced the cables and just cut the ends off because the one on the left is an aftermarket cable.

 

[dsm-junkie]

One of the cut wires is the power wire to the starter and one is the ground that bolts on to the bellhousing. I assume that they replaced the cables and just cut the ends off because the one on the left is an aftermarket cable.

Great! So I'm assuming that the one with the red stripe is the power? Also the where does the cut end of the the wires lead to??

Well I took a second look at my battery cables and I 'm guessing the factory lines to the starter were chopped off and replaced with the big ground wire in the earlier picture and this wire!! So basically I can toss them!

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Now Im rally stuck with my oil feed line for the turbo! I know that it connects to the oil filter housing but now I am using a 6 bolt oil filter housing! So basically where would I put it in on the 6 bolt oil filter housing?? Will I have to get the connector? Also if you guys can help me identify what goes where on the oil filter housing! Thanks for all the help guys!


Heres my oil feed line!

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And heres my housing!

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[NHerron]

This should cover most questions about the OFH
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/409331-6-bolt-swap-90-ofh-turbo-feed.html

Number 3 is your oil pressure switch for the dash light

I am almost 100% the threads are 3/8BSP, not NPT. So you would need a 3/8BSP to 4an fitting.

 

[dsm-junkie]

This should cover most questions about the OFH
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/409331-6-bolt-swap-90-ofh-turbo-feed.html

Number 3 is your oil pressure switch for the dash light

I am almost 100% the threads are 3/8BSP, not NPT. So you would need a 3/8BSP to 4an fitting.

Great thanks a lot!

So basically this is what I'm gonna need?

Garrett T3 T4 Turbo Oil Feed Line Pipe Kit on DSM 1G 2G Garrett Turbocharger | eBay

 

[NHerron]

That looks like it would work fine. Do you still have all the old fittings for the turbo? Its still the T-25 correct? That kit would take forever to receive by the way try to find something in the US haha.

This place you might find oddball fittings at
McMaster-Carr

 

[dsm-junkie]

That looks like it would work fine. Do you still have all the old fittings for the turbo? Its still the T-25 correct? That kit would take forever to receive by the way try to find something in the US haha.

This place you might find oddball fittings at
McMaster-Carr

I actually have a Greddy 18G I think my best bet would be to plug up the oil cooler lines on the OFH and just find a fitting to screw into the OFH for the oil feed line that I already have!!

Alright guys!! I finally got my head totally assembled!! Its been a while but i've been busy with life! So someone please tell me that this is correct!!! The head is fully assembled and all of the camshaft caps have been torqued to spec! Now with the dowel pins on the gears facing up and the timing marks lined up the intake valves in cylinder #3 are slightly open! All other intake valves are closed! Next the exhaust valves in cylinder #2 are slightly open! All other exhaust valves are closed! Please tell me that this is normal when dowel pins are facing up and timing marks are lined up! Basically is this head ready to be timed with the crank with no issues??? Thanks guys!

 

[huafist]

This is normal. Bolt it on, line all the marks up, and enjoy.

 

[dsm-junkie]

Well guys! I'm extremely happy to say that I assembled the head and torqued the head down to the short block and did the timing belt job! It was successful!! All marks are lined up even after 15 rotations! No snags or hold ups!! This motor is ready to be finished and dropped back in!! Now on to a couple more mix ups!


I can't figure out which water pipe to use! The top one is from my old 7 bolt and the bottom one is from a 6 bolt! If it matters I might not use an oil cooler depending if I can get a water cooled oil filter housing! The 7 bolt bracket is also bigger so it does not line up to where it bolts to the block!

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Also my 6 bolt lower timing cover does not clear the 7 bolt motor mount bracket? Will I ned to fabricate it in order to make it fit? I thought the 7 bolt cover has different mounting points?

 

[bryanwheat]

Well guys! I'm extremely happy to say that I assembled the head and torqued the head down to the short block and did the timing belt job! It was successful!! All marks are lined up even after 15 rotations! No snags or hold ups!! This motor is ready to be finished and dropped back in!! Now on to a couple more mix ups!


I can't figure out which water pipe to use! The top one is from my old 7 bolt and the bottom one is from a 6 bolt! If it matters I might not use an oil cooler depending if I can get a water cooled oil filter housing! The 7 bolt bracket is also bigger so it does not line up to where it bolts to the block!

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Also my 6 bolt lower timing cover does not clear the 7 bolt motor mount bracket? Will I ned to fabricate it in order to make it fit? I thought the 7 bolt cover has different mounting points?

For the water pipe it depends on what thermostat housing you are running. For a 1g housing use the 1g pipe, for a 2g housing use the 2g pipe. And you will have to trim the timing cover around the mount to get it to fit.

 

[dsm-junkie]

For the water pipe it depends on what thermostat housing you are running. For a 1g housing use the 1g pipe, for a 2g housing use the 2g pipe. And you will have to trim the timing cover around the mount to get it to fit.

Great Thanks!! So I'm using the 2g thermostat housing so I will be using the 2g pipe! ....Will I just trim the bracket that keeps the pipe mounted to the block?

 

[bryanwheat]

Great Thanks!! So I'm using the 2g thermostat housing so I will be using the 2g pipe! ....Will I just trim the bracket that keeps the pipe mounted to the block?

They bolt to the block in the same place so no. Just install it into the water pump, bolt it on to the block and install the thermostat housing.

 

[dsm-junkie]

They bolt to the block in the same place so no. Just install it into the water pump, bolt it on to the block and install the thermostat housing.

Great!! So the outlet that is coming off of the right side of the water pipe, is that intended for the water cooler on the oil filter housing???

 

[bryanwheat]

Great!! So the outlet that is coming off of the right side of the water pipe, is that intended for the water cooler on the oil filter housing???

That is correct it connects to the oil cooler with a rubber hose.

 

[dsm-junkie]

That is correct it connects to the oil cooler with a rubber hose.

So what if I decided to not use an oil cooler for a while? Or an external oil cooler???