Crank starting point for timing belt on 7bolt

[bizie]

Can someone please reassure me that my timing is aligned correctly. It seems like I can either get it a tooth backward or a tooth forward but never where I want it. I can not get the indicator in the center of the V-notch. Here are my two starting points I can find.. I have don't successful timing jobs on a couple 6bolts but this 7bolt timing mark is unsettling.
I am guessing the 2nd pic is right because the other one is way off. The only problem with pic two is that once I pull the tensioner pin it goes even further forward. When I go a tooth back and pull the pin it seems like it never goes forward enough to align the v notch and front cover indicator. Can someone reassure me? Yes I have searched... I'm trying to save time. I've got a hr in searching and reading so far. I know someone can help expedite the process. Please!

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[pauleyman]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/how-to-remark-4g63-2-0l-cam-gears-for-2-4l-engines.364604/

 

[bizie]

I think this is the right way. I wouldn't mind a conformation. Either way, I am going on with the build. Finally!

 

[pauleyman]

Although that may be as close as you can get it is not right. You have 4g63 cams and gears correct? If that's the case you know what position they are supposed to be in. To be correct you would need 4g64 cam gears or adjustable cam gears. Even with adjustable gears you would still be off marks but you could adjust so that the cams are in correct position even when the marks would not be.

 

[bizie]

Yeah, 4g63 everything except the block. So do I run it like this? Or do I have to manually adjust it with a cam degree device and adjustable gears? Are you implying that I would be best off to get 4g64 cam gears with a 4g63 belt? Could you please be more clear and specific?

 

[pauleyman]

4g64 gears. 4g64 belt no matter what.

 

[bizie]

4g64 adjustable cam gears or stock?

This engine will or will not run properly?

The guy in the utube video didn't use it. He specifically stated he even had it but wasn't going to use it because he didn't have to. Did you watch that video? So you are disagreeing with the video then? I wouldn't argue with that. Just looking to clarify so others can give their opinion

 

[pauleyman]

If the marks don't line up and it's all 4g63 stuff then it's obviously not right. I watched the video and I wouldn't run it like that. I would think 4g64 cam gears would line everything up properly.

 

[bizie]

The bottom end is 4g64 +6mm in height. Cams, cam gears, tensioner and pulleys are from a 2g 4g63. How would 4g64 cams gears work with a 4g63 cam and head. The valves all open the same height and duration?

So the guy that built one said do it with 4g63 pulleys and the guy that hasn't says I need 4g64 stuff..

Whatever, I've always been a risk taker

 

[jim95redgsx]

Those pics in Post #27 look correct to me.

The 4G64 cam gears are identical to the 4G63 gears except that the timing marks are rotated 1/2 tooth clockwise. You could remark the 4G63 gears if you wanted the timing marks to line up.

I'm surprised that you installed the 4G63 timing belt with no problems. You really should be using the 4G64 belt.

Jim

 

[bizie]

The guy in the video said he didn't use a 4g64 belt. He said he bought one to use and didn't have to use it. Did I misunderstand?

 

[pauleyman]

Think about what we know here. The cams are not supposed to be in that position. Nothing you can do will get them in that position short of adjustable cam gears and even then you can't line the marks up on the gears if they're meant for a 4 G63. What you can do is get 4g64 cam gears. the difference should be the dowel pins are in a different location because the deck height is different. Remarking the gears won't change anything all you did was change relative position. The cams are supposed to open and close valves in relationship to the crank shaft position. The pictures you show are obviously not doing that.

 

[pauleyman]

As for using the 4g64 belt the difference would be the position of the eccentric pulley. If somebody has had to grind up something in order to make it fit and use a 4g63 belt then that makes sense that you would use a 4g64 belt which has a little bit more length.

 

[bizie]

Did you not hear Jim say that the cam gears are EXACTLY the same shape and size, the only difference is the marks are a half tooth advanced on 3g cams? Thus, making my half tooth advancement correct. I have read numerous threads on how this works. There is always someone in those threads that has not done it and assures that it can not be done. The engine is almost in, so if the timing ends up needing adjusted, then I will make a post.

 

[pauleyman]

I saw what Jim wrote. Let's look at facts here. We know when a cam should start to open and close a valve relative to crank position. Since you are using 4g63 gears that will not happen at stock positions. Jim stated 4g64 cam gears are marked differently. We will take that as fact. What we do not know is if the dowel positions are the same relative to the marks or possibly 4g64 cams are doweled differently. We do know your 4g63 cams are meant to be straight up when crank is at tdc and they are not and can't be with your current setup. So....the question remains will 4g64 gears allow this or not. I'm done here. I wrote facts. Take my observations as you see fit.

 

[bizie]

Everything worked fine with the timing. However I am having a new electrical issue.

I got a solid 250 miles out of the stroker build and then my ignition module came loose and left the car dead. I reconnected it and redid some wiring for my gauges and now every time I get on my car I blow the ignition fuse and it leaves me dead in the water. I can sit still and Rev all the way to the redline but as soon as I drive and put a high load on the engine I blow the ignition fuse. I've been checking for grounding hots for two days. Nothing. I noticed that if I give the throttle a little rough and let off of it then my air fuel gauge goes then a few seconds later it regains its brightness. I have it connected to my red line ignition power line from my ecu. Along with my apexi tuner. Before I did this swap I was having a low voltage issue but it would go away when I tried the car, I was thinking my alt was going bad. Well I just put a new OEM in there and it's still doing the same thing. Gauges are often dim, sometimes light up for a sec and then dim out, until I rev high, then they light up great, but if I rev low and steady the af gauge will go dim. Normally I would just deal with this issue but I can't even drive my car. I can put around fine and great but as soon as I load the car I blow my 30amp ignition fuse. Is there anything that could cause this besides a grounding positive? All my plugs are tight and all of my wires are covered, or seem to be. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Making a post in electrical help also. Thanks.

 

[dexterholland04]

I know you resolved this issue, but I would like to add something for anyone reading this in the future. I would recommend the Jay Racing timing tool kit. The cam timing block tool makes lining up the cam gears a breeze. I've done timing on many 6 and 7 bolt motors using this kit, and it has never let me down. I know Extreme PSI also makes a kit, and it looks like it would work just as well.

1) Now, assuming that your cams are not at or near TDC: with the timing belt off, I rotate the crank CCW (oooooooohhh, I know...half a turn won't hurt anything) just until I know the cylinders are all at their midpoint. A screwdriver in the spark cover helps gauge this.

2) This allows the you to rotate the cams to TDC without fear of hitting the pistons with the valves. Install the cam block once the cam gears are at TDC (timing marks aligned, with the cam dowel pins in the 12 o'clock position), install the belt on the gears and zip tie it on. You might need to move the gears ever so slightly with the block in it to get the belt on properly, so an extra set of hands is helpful.

3) Now, you can rotate the crank CW again and align the crank timing mark. Also align the oil pump timing mark (not wholly-necessary if you don't have balance shafts). You'll have to follow the VFAQ on how to ensure that the oil pump gear is in proper time (it involves sticking a screwdriver in a hole). I remember another way involving which direction the gear rotated when released from the 12 o'clock position...but I cannot remember which direction it is and do not want to provide incorrect information.

4) Slide the belt around the idler and tensioner pulleys, and around the oil pump and finally around the crank sprocket. Note: You MAY need to move the crank a TINY bit to get everything to line up. It will be completely obvious if something doesn't line up with the crank/oil pump pulleys.

5) Set your tensioner pre-load as per VFAQ. You'll need an 11/64" drill bit to gauge the distance between the tensioner arm and tensioner body. The spec is 0.15-0.18".

6) Pull the grenade pin, rotate it ~6 times and then check to see that you can still fit the drill bit in between the tensioner arm and tensioner body. If it fits snug, then you're good. If not, then repeat step 5.

I hope this points you (and everyone else in the future) in the right direction.