Couple wierd power issues in 90 tsi w/ 92 tsi harness

[Momar]

I swapped the engine out of a 92 tsi fwd into a 90 awd shell that I aquired. I also swapped the engine harness so that I could retain the 92 electronics and used the 92 cluster. The car runs fine. Most stuff seems to work.

The problems I am having are that the power windows have power all the time, and I get no power to the cooling fan relay on the turn on side(this should be on with key). I am not even positive that these are related, or not. What I am trying to find is a wire pinout for c67 because it is the only thing I had ro repin. I just matched the wire colors. Is one of these for the power windows? I can fix these issues by rewiring them individually, but if it is just a pinout issue I woiuld like to do it that way. My other concern is if it could be a problem with the ignition switch?

Any suggestions for testing, or a pinout for c67 would be great. I looked through the service manual, but cant find a pinout that shows what ll is in the connector.

Thanks

Well, I did some testing on the power window side of things. I have constant power at the fuse under dash, under hood fusible link, and relay. I unplugged the c67 connector under the dash and it has power constantly on the blue/red wire on the dash side of the harness that I did not replace or repin. Does this indicate a faulty ignition switch, or why am I getting power all of the time?

 

[19Eclipse90]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/325295-dash-harness-talon-tsi.html#post152666380
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/electrical-tech/406669-cant-find-were-clip-goes-help.html#post152641868

Interesting issue. The radiator fan motor relay is on the same power circuit as the power windows meaning (if I read this correctly) if you have constant power to the windows, your cooling fan should always have power as well. I'm not the best at electrical stuff, but I'll have a go. If I'm in error or I miss something, hopefully someone points it out. It all makes sense to me.

The fact that the blue w/ red wire has power points to a bad ignition switch. The fact that your cooling fan doesn't work may just be a blown thermosensor or bad fan motor. If you see voltage at the green w/ black wire on the cooling fan plug, you can be pretty confident the ignition switch is bad. The fan will kick on at 185 degrees Fahrenheit and kick off at 172 Fahrenheit. So at operating temperature, you should see continuity across the green w/ black wire and the black wire. If you get no reading, the thermosensor is bad. If you do get a reading, the fan motor is bad.

 

[Momar]

I will look at the diagrams some more here in a minuite. The fans work if I jumper the connection where the relay plugs in. Pretty sure that I am getting ground on the activation side of the relay from the switch in radiator. The other pin I believe is supposed to be key on power. I dont get any power ever to that pin of the relay so even when the thermistor grounds the relay it has no power to activate.

One thing I can say is that the radiator and engine and egnine harness were all out of my 92. Everything funcioned properly in there. So I think the problem is in where the power comes from on the body harness.

How hard are the ignition switches to change in these cars? It sounds like that is def a problem since I always have power to my windows. I figure that if it is bad that I want to replace it and see where that leaves me.

 

[19Eclipse90]

Again, interesting.

The fan relay won't activate and the fan motor won't run if the fan's thermosensor isn't activated. A coil in the relay pulls it closed allowing the fan to run, but does nothing if the thermosensor fails to close. If you can jump the fan motor by bypassing the relay, then the thermosensor or relay is faulty. Once again, that's how I read it. Edit: Or a bad/failure to ground.

But I agree it would be worth getting the ignition switch replaced. Make sure you undo the negative battery terminal before messing with anything.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-exterior-interior/133662-how-remove-ignition.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/electrical-tech/392656-ignition-switch.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/361348-how-remove-ignition-switch.html

 

[Momar]

The switch grounds the control side of the switch. On the other side of the coil there is power that is supposed to be key on. When the thermister closes and grounds one, and the key is on and powers the other side of the coil. You have to have both to power the coil(power and ground). I only get the ground from the thermistor. When this recieves power and ground it closes the switch on the other 2 terminals. This supplys the actual power to the fan. If I just connect those 2 terminals like the relay would when it recieves power and ground to the control side it the fan comes on. I just am not getting the key on power that should be there.

 

[19Eclipse90]

I think we're on the same page.

For those following along, here's what we are talking about. So we're clear, you aren't getting key "ON" power at 1 (and, by consequence, at the power side of the thermistor) in the cooling diagram, correct? If that is the case, I'm dumbfounded. The key "ON" power that runs to the fan relay is the same key "ON" power that runs to the power windows. That suggests an issue with wiring in the cooling circuit, I believe. Man I hate electrical stuff.

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[Momar]

Yes. Exactly. I am not recieving key on power at 1 on the relay. Power windows which should recieve the same power are recieving power all the time even with key off.

Took the car out driving a bit today. Most I have drove it since I swapped the engine in it. I also noticed that it almost felt like the power to the engine would cut out every once in a while but not real often. I am really suspecting an ignition switch problem. I think I am going to take the ignition switch off of the car the engine is out of and see if that fixes any or all of my problems.

 

[Momar]

Didnt get a chance to swap the ignition switch yet, but I did talk to a friend of mine who has a lot of experience with car electronics, and he said that it wouldnt suprise him if the ignition switch was going out and a previous owner wired power to the windows when they stopped working. I will see what happens with the new ignition switch hopefully within the next couple days.

 

[19Eclipse90]

All sounds reasonable to me. Let us know what happens!

 

[Momar]

Swapped the ignitoin switch today. No change. Now I am not sure exactly where to go....

 

[19Eclipse90]

Check the wiring between the fan relay and the ignition switch. The power windows still have power all the time as well?

 

[Momar]

Yes. Power windows still work all the time. I wish I knew where the splice was where the circuit branches off to go to the windows and the cooling circuit. The problem has to be I kind of wonder if the problem is there since the 2 should have power at the same time, but one has power all the time and the other never does.

Also I had mentioned a problem with the engine cutting out. I found a ground to the firewall loose. It grounded a couple wires out of the harness. Going to tighten that up and see if that makes a difference with that problem.

 

[Momar]

I got the problem fixed with the car cutting out. It was either a loose connection at the ecu or that the chassis the ecu needed grounded. I noticed that it made the car start acting right by moving the ecu once. I mounted it and made sure everything is tight and it stopped doing that.

According to the first diagram it looks like the 2 circuits split right after the ignition switch and the power windows go through the fuse block and the fan runs to the relay. This would mean that that splice should be right under the dash near the ignition switch and fuse block right? If so I guess that tells me where I need to look for something wrong. I just hate working under the dash.

 

[19Eclipse90]

Glad to hear you fixed the cutting out issue. I'd imagine the same for the location of the splice and definitely agree with you on working under the dash.

At this point, I'm all emotional support. You seem to be getting things done without much guidance so kudos. Let us know what you find out about that fan circuit.

 

[Momar]

Well thanks for your help. This is not my daily driver, and I can turn the fan on by jumpering the relay so I may not get to crawling around under the dash real quick, but I will let you know. This car is kind of a toy car/project so I just like to work on it as is convenient.