completely stock rebuild help needed

[grimscye]

Ok guys, I used the search feature but to no avail. So yeah, anyways here's what's up;
I have a 96 Eclipse RS, completely stock engine and drive train, and about a month ago it started knocking hard on my way home, got about 5 blocks from my house and the car died. I tried to start it again to get the last few blocks and nothing, just a single click from the starter. Now i have a replacement 420a shortblock from pick-n-pull to rebuild. All im looking to do is tear it apart, put all new gaskets, fluids and bearings.
I got the block torn down to block, oil pump, water pump and crank cap last night. now first question: the crank spins fine with no grinding or anything so do i have to pull the crank cap? or will it be fine?
second: will this kit i found work? - 96 99 Dodge Neon Avenger Chrysler Sebring Eagle Talon 2 0L DOHC re Ring Kit 420A | eBay
third: I'm pretty good when it comes to cars but I've never rebuilt a head before (replace the valve seals), I tried looking with the search but all i could find were questions no write-ups/how-to's. i even searched google but no luck.

Sorry for such a long post, but I figured it's better to get it all out in the open. Basically though its a good motor i'm just looking to replace all the gaskets and such.

Oh and i've used this site for info a lot but never really had a reason to join as all my questions were answered, this time i wasn't so lucky .

Anyways thanks in advance for the help guys

 

[GST with PSI]

Man, you really have a lot of what-ifs to answer for yourself. You are getting pretty deep in the weeds.

First, at the pick-and-pull, did you check the odometer of the car you pulled the motor out of? You are basically trying to figure out how many miles are on the motor you have. Was the oil pan clean (no metal shavings or anything glaringly bad) when you pulled it off your donor motor? How do the walls of the crankcase look? Sludge on them, or overall pretty clean?

Next, do you have all the proper tools to dissemble and reassemble a block? For example, do you have an accurate torque wrench for torquing the main and rod caps?

Read this http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/472640-ebay-gasket-set-mizumo-auto.html in regard to the Ebay kit you posted. I know it's not specifically a 420A thread, but the same principal applies. The bearings and piston rings will be fine, but the head gasket manufacturer isn't even listed in the auction. You definitely don't want to cheap out on a HG.

You could pull the main and rod caps and check all the tolerances. You could use Plasitgage, since not many people have a set of micrometers in their tool boxes. Depending on your tolerances, you may or may not want to replace bearings. If you do end up replacing bearings, you would likely want to have your crankshaft machined before throwing it back in the block.

Replacing valve seals is pretty straight forward, but you need to be able to remove the valve springs. I'd recommend a spring compressor, but there are other less innovative ways (and less effective) to remove them if you don't have one. Pretty sure you could rent one from Autozone or any chain parts store free.

Replacing gaskets is one thing, but rebuilding a short block entirely is pretty in depth. Not really difficult, but some knowledge is required, and attention to detail is paramount.

Lastly, you are going to get a lot of shit if you aren't good at using the search function. Some of the stuff you are asking is pretty basic, and has been covered many times over. Make sure you scour the forums here before posting up questions. Many of the members here aren't very tolerant of repetition. Take a look at the links provided, and post back if you have any more questions. Welcome to the forum, and good luck.

Read here before you start tearing things apart any further:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/450429-bogussvo-how-links-other-info.html


Not a 420A, but you get the idea:

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[jed344]

Just by spinning the bottom end by hand you will not hear any noise i would pull the caps and look at the crank and see and feel for any scrapes or gouges. As far as the head goes i always send it to a machine shop to have it decked new valve seals and checked out myself.

 

[grimscye]

Hey guys sorry I didn't reply, I had a lot on my plate and have even more now but thanks for the advice thus far. so what I did was, I had everything machined and checked; ordered that kit, and then went and bought felpro on the stuff that looked sketchy got it all built and switched it out following a guide I found on here for swapping the engine without the tranny and without removing the drive shafts/arms, whatever they're called...
anyways its 100% back together except for the fenders, bumper, the lights and the bottom motor mount/ cross member (waiting till I have it running to put all that on)
new problem though go to turn the key and all I get is a single click nothing else tried turning the engine by hand and it turns beautifully. I had the starter tested, and everything checks out. I try bypassing the solenoid and I get a single click then nothing, and it doesn't even click if I try to bypass it again...

I'm really lost on this one and I have to be moved by the 20th so I could really use some help here.
Thanks in advance, grim.

Also ive searched google and here as well as other forums and found nothing.

 

[BogusSVO]

Check Battery voltage (12.6v) then pull and clean all the grounds.

 

[grimscye]

voltage as it sits right now: 12.4

checked all grounds: no corrosion no rust all are good and tight

same results

 

[74runner]

Jafromobile's videos will help you understand a motor rebuild, check them out there are a lot



jafromobile - YouTube

 

[grimscye]

Jafromobile's videos will help you understand a motor rebuild, check them out there are a lot



jafromobile - YouTube

all very helpful stuff i watched a few vids but i didnt see anything pertaining to my current problem

 

[jayson427]

Check your starter relay. Can you jump the starter with a screw driver? See if it starts then.

 

[grimscye]

thats what i meant by bypassing the starter solenoid but thanks for the suggestion got anything else to try?

 

[jayson427]

I'm pretty sure the starter relay is underneath where the cd player would go in the dash. But what is exactly clicking? The relay on the firewall or what?

 

[zcox122]

Did you check fuses?

 

[grimscye]

Sorry the click I'm referring to is the starter popping out, as I said before the stater pops out but won't turn the engine, yet I can turn it by hand. And as per advice I checked the relay it's reading 70 ohms on two prongs and nothing on any other combination.
While I had the relay out I turned the key and nothing no pop no click nothing. I also checked the fuses all are good. The resistance between bat and starter on neg side is 1 ohm. But this is really making me mad and confusing me at the same time, I've never run into this problem before... What do y'all think?

 

[1G Eclipse94928]

Did you make sure you rewired everything correctly?

 

[grimscye]

Yes the only thing that's different is the cam sensor. I had to upgrade it to the new style with one from picknpull, unsure if its good or not have to check it, but that wouldn't make the starter pop out but not turn would it?

 

[zcox122]

Is your starter grounded properly? Try running a ground wire from one of your starter bolts to bat. Negative then try starting it ( good sized wire).

 

[grimscye]

Mine came with what looks like 4ga going from neg/initial grounding point to top starter bolt.
Today I took some jumper cables from neg post straight to body of the starter and same results so I'm assuming the grounds are good even tried swapping out the pc with a couple of spares I have, same result... Asked my brother bout it and he said you can have the volts but might not have the cranking amps so he wants to try jumping it. Any other suggestions to try I'd be grateful, Its so close yet so far

 

[zcox122]

Your brother is right. Thought I read you had tried a new battery . Probably another thread.

 

[grimscye]

Nope wasn't me . I got to thinking last night, do yall think the tc or the trans could be causing this?

 

[zcox122]

Is it a 5speed. If so the clutch safety switch might be unplugged or messed up.

 

[grimscye]

Sadly no its an auto

 

[grimscye]

Ok so I was talking to a buddy of mine about what the car is doing and he said I probably over tightened the bed plate (I guess is what it's called, the main bearing cap). What do y'all think? I mean I know too tight and too much friction can do that but, considering I don't know how accurate my torque wrench is, how possible is that

 

[GST with PSI]

Ok so I was talking to a buddy of mine about what the car is doing and he said I probably over tightened the bed plate (I guess is what it's called, the main bearing cap). What do y'all think? I mean I know too tight and too much friction can do that but, considering I don't know how accurate my torque wrench is, how possible is that

^I'd say very unlikely.

Break it down simply:

-Start with the battery. Is the static voltage good (close to 12.6 at rest)? If so, will the battery perform correctly under a load? The only way you can check this is to fully charge the battery, and load test it. Most parts chains will do this test free. Just make sure the battery is fully charged before you take it to the parts store, as they will sometimes test a dead battery giving you false test results.

-Ok, so you absolutely confirm your battery is good. Make sure your wiring to the starter is good. check the positive side (battery to starter terminal) and make sure there is not excessive resistance or a short to ground. Next, check the ground side, and make sure the starter has a good ground. People underestimate how important the ground side of the circuit is. Lastly, make sure the "S" terminal is getting power when the key is turned. Since it is clicking, I'll assume the "S" terminal is getting power, so be sure it is in fact getting 12v, and that the starter solenoid is working as it should.

-Is the starter good? Your local parts store will also test your starter for free. They will confirm the starter and starter solenoid are both working as they should.

I would bet the issue lies either with the power, or ground circuit supplying the starter. Do you know how to perform a voltage drop test? Here's a wiring diagram to aid in tracing circuits and troubleshooting.

If anything I've said is confusing, post your questions and we can clarify them.

 

[grimscye]

Thanks Gst sorry I forgot to post yesterday, but I found the problem.

So I was taking the battery out to try a brand new one, undid the pos terminal and it broke off. Took a closer look and it was horrible. Went and got a new terminal and put it on, then just for the he'll of it I turned the key and it turned over . Had my neighbor give me a jump and after 1 minute of cranking and pumping the gas it started!!!!

However it's now fluctuating between 1k and about 400 rpm and the trans is slipping bad. Any ideas?

 

[grimscye]

That was my first thought and I've triple checked that. I pulled the codes at Autozone and the was a high input voltage from the ect sensor, and a code about the trans.