Coil On Plug [Merged 5-7]

[4g63mightymax]

I disagree,
A waste spark system means that the spark plug fires on the exhaust stroke along with right before the power stroke........You can still have 4 coils and have a waste spark system. It depends how the system is set up. Our cars would work fine on a normal non-waste spark setup, but it would probably have higher emissions....and it would have to use at least 4 coils....
We need to find out what COP setup that buscher uses and how its wired.....anybody know?
anywho, just my .02
jeremy

 

[CraigB]

That's nice

Waste spark is when one coil is used for 2 cylinders 1 plug will have a positive charge one will have a negative charge that is waste spark.

 

[GVR-4]

Found this on an automechanics webite:

A waste spark is the spark that occurs 360° from the “normal” spark that fires the fuel mixture. Remember the “normal” spark occurs every 720° (2 turns of the crank shaft).

 

[CraigB]

http://www.autolite.com/framer.cgi?page=http://www.autolite.com/products/dis.htm

 

[CraigB]

The reason it was named waste spark was because it used the negative charge (unconventional per autolite) to fire the plug. Not because it fires on the exhaust stroke.

 

[Taboo]

Originally posted by CraigB
The reason it was named waste spark was because it used the negative charge (unconventional per autolite) to fire the plug. Not because it fires on the exhaust stroke.

This is incorrect. You're referring to dual-polarity (4+2 convetional/3+1 unconventional) system which still doesn't define the ignition as wasted spark system. Any conventional, unconventional or dual-polarity system can be wasted spark (if the ECU has only one ignition driver per two cylinders).
http://www.taboospeedshop.com/ignition.htm

 

[CraigB]

Defined by who just yourself?

 

[Taboo]

Nope.
http://web.mm.rmit.edu.au/Web_Page/ME478_Lecture_Notes_files/Lecture_11.pdf

 

[CraigB]

I guess it depends on who you talk to I have been to many factory training classes have never heard anything different. It is always a twin post coil for 2 cylinders.

http://www.hitman.hm/ignition_guide.htm

 

[CraigB]

Here is the cop system I have used for a few weeks with no problems.



http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4290800785&idx=1

 

[GVR-4]

Still looks like you got a mess o' wires to me. That's why I want COP: NO plug wires. Like the Buschur set up.

 

[CraigB]

I only have 2 plug wires. The reason I wanted to do this is because I going to replace my intake manifold. The new one does not have a place to mount the coil. Plus the plug wires are really short less voltage drop than the stock wires.

 

[venom42]

I talked to a friend that used to be a Nissan tech, but he did not know if the VQ30 and VQ35 used a waste spark system. I am going to try and get in touch with one other guy I know this week, so who knows.

 

[marshall]

SR20DET and VG30's are not waste spark, so chances are VQ's aren't either...anyways, why would any factory COP system be waste spark? it wouldn't make sense...

marshall

 

[BatmanGSX]

CraigB, you are a dummy. One coil sends a spark to two cylinders at the same time, there is no "possitive negative" crap going on. Coil A fires the 1 and 4 cylinders and coil B fires 2 and 3. When 1 is on its compression stroke 4 is on its exhaust stroke. The coil doesn't know which cylinder is firing, it just fires when the ignitor tells it to. One tower sends a spark down one wire that lights off cylinder 1 and the other tower sends a spark down the other wire to cylinder 4, that spark is "wasted" during the exhaust stroke. Hence the name, "wasted spark". Spend fifteen seconds looking at the stock ignition system, it will all make sense.

And just for clarification, for the 50 times I saw it, the coil does not fire on the power stroke, it fires on the compression stroke. Anyone remember timing advance?

I looked into individual coils but in the end I realized there was abselutely no advantage (other than a cosmetic one) while retaining the wasted spark system.

 

[CraigB]

Look at this diagram you are the dumb one.
http://www.autolite.com/framer.cgi?page=http://www.autolite.com/products/dis.htm

 

[hostile]

Man craig your being hard headed. It is called waste spark because it wastes the spark.

During the first two engine revolutions, the OEM computer will trigger two coils simultaneously before the cam sensor signal is detected. One of these coils will ignite in a cylinder in a compression cycle. The other coil will spark in a cylinder in an exhaust cycle, which is called a waste spark.

http://www.dualcurve.com/56531.htm

 

[stevetford]

Where in the hell is this post going? I thought this was originally about converting our cars over to a coil on plug setup.???????

 

[hostile]

Thought you guys would like to check this out

http://www.ignitionsolutions.com/products/direct.shtml

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[GVR-4]

Yeah, I've seen that and at least one other company. But the question is are they designed for a waste spark system?

dp

 

[venom42]

It says on their site that it is compatible with waste spark systems.

 

[GrocMax]

Originally posted by BatmanGSX
CraigB, you are a dummy. One coil sends a spark to two cylinders at the same time, there is no "possitive negative" crap going on. Coil A fires the 1 and 4 cylinders and coil B fires 2 and 3. When 1 is on its compression stroke 4 is on its exhaust stroke. The coil doesn't know which cylinder is firing, it just fires when the ignitor tells it to. One tower sends a spark down one wire that lights off cylinder 1 and the other tower sends a spark down the other wire to cylinder 4, that spark is "wasted" during the exhaust stroke. Hence the name, "wasted spark". Spend fifteen seconds looking at the stock ignition system, it will all make sense.

Well, join him in the 'dummy club' buddy, since this is DC electricity we are talking about here, and one wire feeds two plugs, one will fire positive one will fire negative simultaneously. This is what Dummy #1 was referring to, it appears.

Open mouth, insert foot

 

[CraigB]

Do any of you guys have any type of coil on plug set ups on your cars? I guess I'm the only dummy that has one working. Taboo has a pretty good diagram of our ignition systems on his site. Maybe some of you should look at it before you post something you know nothing about.

 

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by GrocMax


Well, join him in the 'dummy club' buddy, since this is DC electricity we are talking about here, and one wire feeds two plugs, one will fire positive one will fire negative simultaneously. This is what Dummy #1 was referring to, it appears.

Open mouth, insert foot

We always knew I was a dummy. I just want to recruit new members for my club.

Regardless, one plug firing negative and one firing possitive is a biproduct of the system, not what gave it its name.

And there is a diagram in my manual, thanks, CraigB.

 

[Taboo]

The 4G63 uses direct fire, dual polarity, wasted spark ignition system. Direct fire ignition is defined by the lack of distributor. Dual polarity is defined by one coil per two cylinders. Wasted spark is defined by one ignition driver per two cylinders (= firing once per each revolution of the crank, "wasting" one spark in one of the cylinders while at BDC in the process). Dual polarity system does not necessarily needs to be wasted spark (if the ECU has one ignition driver per cylinder) and wasted spark system does not necessarily needs to be dual polarity (if one ignition coil per cylinder is used).