Coil On Plug [Merged 5-7]

[cwilcox]

But it cant do it AND do 4 channel sequential injection at the same time. its a one or the other deal.

 

[stevetford]

Yes, you are correct. The only way the E6K can do seq. inj on a 4cyl is if the motor was using a distributor. But for most people I know using the E6K on a DSM is using multipoint injection and they have enough outputs left over to have 4 ignition outputs.
I only wanted to clarify that so if someone was reading this post and have a Haltech in their car they will not be mislead into thinking that their E6K can not run this mod. Hell, they can even run batch firing and a DIS4 using only the 2 ign outputs avaliable. This will keep them wastespark but it can still be done.
Not trying to argue with you cwilcox, just wanted to make this clear.


Steve

 

[cwilcox]

gotcha..

 

[GrocMax]

Originally posted by stevetford
Yes, you are correct. The only way the E6K can do seq. inj on a 4cyl is if the motor was using a distributor. But for most people I know using the E6K on a DSM is using multipoint injection and they have enough outputs left over to have 4 ignition outputs.
I only wanted to clarify that so if someone was reading this post and have a Haltech in their car they will not be mislead into thinking that their E6K can not run this mod. Hell, they can even run batch firing and a DIS4 using only the 2 ign outputs avaliable. This will keep them wastespark but it can still be done.
Not trying to argue with you cwilcox, just wanted to make this clear.


Steve

This is not correct, you CAN run waste spark DIS and true sequential injection on a 4 cylinder, but it takes a rather special little ignition module that can be found in a junkyard, and some creative thinking.

 

[cwilcox]

Yeah he was wrong about waste spark and sequential inj. thats easy, the e6k has 6 channels.

I was talking about using 4 ign and 4 inj which the e6k doesnt have.

i suppose if you wanted to play around using the 2 ign outputs to make 4 outputs you could use a rotary igniter

 

[GrocMax]

Originally posted by cwilcox
Yeah he was wrong about waste spark and sequential inj. thats easy, the e6k has 6 channels.

Nope, only has five that can be used for ignition or injection.

 

[cwilcox]

when i ran my e6k, i have 4 inj channels with each running 2 injectors. and i used the ign 1 channel and dig out 1 channel for my 2 ign outputted to a dis-2 running mitsu coil pack firing with wastespark. 4 inj + 1ign + dig out1 is 6 channels, but i agree with you that it only has 5 dedicated channels but you can use a digout for the other channel.

 

[GrocMax]

Sorry, you only have 5 *logic* channels for injection and ignition (inj1/2, inj3/4, ign, DIG1 and DIG2), you CANNOT natively run sequential and waste spark w/o some trickery. You CAN enable extra drivers for the injector channels to handle the current, but that doesn't increase logic capacity. You CANNOT select sequential as injection mode after setting up a 2 channel DIS, or select anything other than distributor mode after selecting sequential injection mode after selecting 4 cylinder. Try it.

RTFE6KM

 

[awdmit]

I have a question,specifically for GrocMax or Hal, but if anyone knows the exact answer please answer. What is the exact dwell time you guys measured for the 1st gen guys. Also it is the ECM that controls the dwell time, correct. In other words the coils do not have built in smart ignitors. Lastly, it is a 12 volt signal on our cars not 5 volt, correct. I spoke with a tech guy on running a COP and he says if I can get him the info he thinks we can get something to work. Atleast one of my coil packs are failing and I need to fix it soon, I figure as with everything else it is time to upgrade. If nothing else I will try the LS1 coils that people are talking about.

 

[awdmit]

I know COP was discussed on DSMTalk, but I can't find it now. Can someone tell where it is. Also I have trying to register there for I don't know long. What is going on with them. I can't use the search function without being a member, genius.

 

[stevetford]

Originally posted by GrocMax


This is not correct, you CAN run waste spark DIS and true sequential injection on a 4 cylinder, but it takes a rather special little ignition module that can be found in a junkyard, and some creative thinking.

I apologize, I was wrong. It took me about 5 times of rereading to actually figure it out Haltech claims that if an optional ignition toggle is used sequential injection with waste spark is possible. Again, I am sorry to create such a ruckus.
GrocMax, is this special little ignition module the same as the ignition toggle that Haltech is talking about?
Thanks guy's for setting me straight


Steve

 

[GVR-4]

So does that mean COP isn't possible without standalone or a jumper wire? I was really looking forward to getting rid of the plug wires.

dp

 

[cwilcox]

Originally posted by GVR-4
So does that mean COP isn't possible without standalone or a jumper wire? I was really looking forward to getting rid of the plug wires.

dp

it is totally possible with a stock ecu but know you will still have a setup that is waste spark but has individual coils. Your 1/4 and 2/3 coils with still fire everytime just like with the stock system. this may give you some extra spark. The true individual sequential setup is 4 coils, 1 per cylinder, with 4 ign channels, so coil 1 fires only when cyl 1 comes up, and the same for the other 3 instead coil 1 and 4 firing when cyl 1 or cy 4 come up.

 

[GVR-4]

Forgive my ignorance, but is there some drawback to having the plug fire on the exhaust stroke? (That is what you mean isn't it?)

Also, Hal's link isn't working. So where do I get the plans? I really want to do this mod, but obviously need to do more research (read: learn more). This post is cool though.

Thanks,

dp

 

[GRNDSM]

Originally posted by GVR-4
Forgive my ignorance, but is there some drawback to having the plug fire on the exhaust stroke? (That is what you mean isn't it?)

Well, stock coils do it, so if that is bad, were are not changing anything.

Leon
RR

 

[cwilcox]

It just never lets your coils have any cool down time, but it does work fine.

 

[GVR-4]

Originally posted by GrocMax
Its simple- you need a coil designed for the rather high factory dwell times, otherwise they will overheat.

Didn't we discuss this Hal? Those Chrysler COP ignition systems I don't ever recall seeing even 50% of the dwell time, normally used on this Mitsubishi application, off the DRB-III scanner and scope. They were never intended for more than 2-2.5ms dwell. THEY WILL OVERHEAT AND FAIL.

You sure 'bout that, cwilcox? Sounds like everyone's still having trouble with the coils, since the ones from the 300m aren't waste spark. And where can I find the plans?

dp

 

[cwilcox]

Originally posted by GVR-4


You sure 'bout that, cwilcox? Sounds like everyone's still having trouble with the coils, since the ones from the 300m aren't waste spark. And where can I find the plans?

dp

im not sure if these coils will work, but a cop in waste spark will work if the coils were designed to be fired as often as your wastespark will (double the normal rate of a traditional sequential cop setup)

 

[GVR-4]

Right on.

 

[hose101772]

if im not off in the head-i believe 300zx has 3 channel ign.so i would think the turbo has the same.they have coil on plug setup-could be the same part number for all i know.if thats the case-300zx,zx tt,or j30 should have the coils we need for such a project.nissan techs speak up-

 

[venom42]

Does the Z not run the same COP as the Maximas?

 

[hose101772]

i think any vg30det has the same coil set up.so yea,a 92 up SE maxima would have the same coils.standard vg30 has distributor-maxima-truck-quest.95 up maximas have completely different engine,so im not sure about that models firing cycle-probably not a wasted spark setup. the reason of converting to a coil on plug ignition, as questioned why a few post earlier,simply to do away with high tension wires-plug wires have a very high impedence, losing deliverable voltage-if youre losing the wires youre losing the loss that comes with them.

 

[venom42]

The Maximas that had the VG30 did not run COP? I know the VQ30 and VQ35 Maximas all ran COP. I know some Nissan Techs, so I will try and find out if they have a waste spark system.

 

[GVR-4]

Nobody out there knows why the Bushcur COP works or how it's different? Somebody posted that it's waste spark, so what coils do they use on that set up?

"I will try and find out if they have a waste spark system."

Thanks venom.

dp

 

[CraigB]

If you have four coils it is not a waste spark system.