420A Judder, shudder chatter, some sort vibration or rattle getting into first gear!!!

[Keola916]

I just got my clutch and flywheel replaced and I feel a shudder on my gas pedal when ever I start throttling in first gear from a stop. It only started after I got the parts replaced. How long does it take to break in a new clutch?

-thanks

 

[Keola916]

i need help, I recently replaced my whole clutch and the one that was taken out was an act clutch kit that was all in three peices (pressure plate, disc, flywheel). When I went to autozone to get a new kit the one I got was a whole assembly (ended up not being able to fit) and I was scrambling to find the right one and eventually found that the neon clutch kit bolted right in. But, I'm getting a judder now and I'm pretty sure that the reason why. If I put in the kit that comes as the whole assembly and is riveted together do I also need the Flexplate? Please help

-thanks

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[Keola916]

i need help, I recently replaced my whole clutch and the one that was taken out was an act clutch kit that was all in three peices (pressure plate, disc, flywheel). When I went to autozone to get a new kit the one I got was a whole assembly (ended up not being able to fit) and I was scrambling to find the right one and eventually found that the neon clutch kit bolted right in. But, I'm getting a judder now and I'm pretty sure that the reason why. If I put in the kit that comes as the whole assembly and is riveted together do I also need the Flexplate? Please help

-thanks

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Is that the right flexplate/flywheel even though it says it's for an auto?

 

[AWD-Tony]

Is this a 420a? Automatics use a flexplate, manual uses a flywheel.

 

[Keola916]

Is this a 420a? Automatics use a flexplate, manual uses a flywheel.

Yes it is a 420a, from what I have researched, I can't find an oem flywheel, but the flywheel that I put a pic of looks exactly like the one I'm seeing in videos but it says it for an auto

 

[Keola916]

Is this a 420a? Automatics use a flexplate, manual uses a flywheel.

If you ever replaced your clutch, what did it look like when it was taken out (clutch and flywheel)

 

[AWD-Tony]

Sorry, I’ve never worked on a 420a but a clutch job is usually the same. This is was my flywheel with typical wear. The pic you posted is a flexplate for automatic

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[Keola916]

Sorry, I’ve never worked on a 420a but a clutch job is usually the same. This is was my flywheel with typical wear. The pic you posted is a flexplate for automatic

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After doing a lot of research I figured it out. The original clutch that in my car is a modular clutch which is the one that is all riveted together and then bolted to a flexplate but mine was swapped to a non modular clutch which is the one that comes in 3 peices . Basically the reason that I'm doing all this research is because I just got it all replaced and I feel a judder and I'm trying to figure out why that happening. My clutch was replaced twice. That's what my pp looked like after around a 1000 miles. The pattern of the burn marks is what I'm feeling. Will this go away after the clutch it broken on or should I get all the parts to change it back to a modular clutch set up?

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[AWD-Tony]

It’s not going to go away. Was the first replacement clutch chattering also? If so, I’d pull the clutch and check the runout on the flywheel. Maybe you have an issue with the crank. But again, idk too much about the 420a and what clutch works and what doesn’t. @twicks69 may know more.

 

[Mech Addict]

Post a photo of the parts you originally removed. I’ve never heard of a clutch that mounts to a flexplate. Not to say it doesn’t exist, but would be unusual in the world of cardome.

 

[Mech Addict]

Yes, about the modular clutch, looks like you’re correct. Based on the photos, there would be no way to mount the modular clutch without the companion flexplate. It also looks like the flexplate holds the ring gear, so no way to crank without it.

 

[Mech Addict]

Interesting that the parts warehouses list two kinds of flexplate, though both show the application as auto trans. One is a conventional auto flex plate, and the other kind is this modular/ manual clutch flex plate, circular w/ ring gear.

 

[Keola916]

Interesting that the parts warehouses list two kinds of flexplate, though both show the application as auto trans. One is a conventional auto flex plate, and the other kind is this modular/ manual clutch flex plate, circular w/ ring gear.

I can use the auto flexplate In a 5 speed tho? It looks exactly the same

 

[Mech Addict]

I’m only making educated (and that’s a stretch) guesses. Usually the torque converter has the ring gear for starter on it, like the one in the attached photo. That application is a 96 eclipse 2.4 auto. You can see it has three holes that would seem to line up with the three-eared flex plate shown for this application. The circular “flex plate” shown for this same model car has a ring gear mounted to it, which would make no sense for use with an actual automatic torque converter. Seems worth a try to order a modular clutch kit and the circular flex plate if the place you order from will accept returns if the parts don’t fit. You may need some specific fasteners, especially for the flex plate to crank shaft. They need to be pretty strong.
If it were me, I’d try to get some advice from one of the vendors on DSMT and order from them (with fasteners!).

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[Keola916]

I've been having this problem for so long now.
I have a 2g Talon ESI (420a) and I've spent so much dam money and time for this one problem. I'll try to describe this as much as i can in words because a video can't seem to pick up the sound nor what I'm feeling.

Basically when I'm going from a stop in first, giving it some throttle and letting off the clutch (like a normal person) i feel some sort of judder, very slight shake, shudder, or heavy vibration (don't exactly have the words to explain it) when I'm fully off the clutch and start to give it throttle to go. When I keep the RPM's at 2000 and slowly very let off the clutch it's completely fine but, if I wanna do a pull or just drive normally out of first it will make that feeling/sound.

I've now replaced the clutch 3 times and even changing my clutch back to a modular clutch (swapped to a non modular), all mounts, front hubs and driver CV axle (which is the side I feel it). As you can see on the pictures, the clutch and pressure plate seem to be mating a little to much and burning but only on the outer edge (that clutch came out after maybe 5k miles).

I'm 99% positive that is what I'm feeling/hearing because the burn pattern is the same "pattern" of the sound/feel (sounds idiotic but trust me). Can someone point me in the right direction to what is causing this because I've spent too much money and time on this.

This Talon only has 79,500 original miles on it and overall is in a 8-9/10 condition besides this one f%#<}ng problem, I'm really not trying sell the car. If you need any more info just let me know, I'll do anything at this point to figure it out.

-thanks, no really THANKS!!

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Another thing that might be important to note is that i first started to experience this when I changed the clutch when I first got the car.

The clutch that I pulled out was from ACT along with an ACT Pressure Plate and flywheel. I put in a Dodge Neon clutch kit from autozone since that's the only non modular clutch kit that can be used when changing the clutch to a non modular system. I never have experienced this problem before I did that. Most recently I even swapped the clutch back to its non modular system which is how it comes oem.

Another thing I was reading up on was some thing contaminating the surface. What fluids would be able to do this and from where?

What's even more weird is that for instance if I'm in a situation where I'm slowly stopping for a red light and it turns green and would need to go, I put it back into first, (which is the only gear that has this problem) let off the clutch normally, and go, it will be completely fine. The problem only occurs when getting into first from a dead stop.

 

[Kryndon]

I had this exact same problem when I put on a new comp stage 2 clutch diisc and plate. Before that my flywheel was machined incorrectly and the step was too shallow and uneven. The first 1000 miles or so the car was making horrid juddering/clattering sounds from a standstill. After the clutch finally blew up on me I took it apart andd saw the outer edge was much more worn just like in your picture, and the flywheel had become concave. After machining (resurfacing) both flywheel and pressure plate faces, and installing a new friction disc and confirming FULL contact between all faces, all sounds, judders and issues related to a bad clutch went away.

So I strongly suggest you take your flywheel to get machined to the proper step height, check for warpage in all 3 components and then assemble and test drive. It is NORMAL for most NEW clutch kits to make a noise or vibrate slightly when getting broken in, but in your case the problem is clearly visible: uneven contact surfaces. It causes the disc to jump around and twist between both flywheel and PP.

 

[Keola916]

I had this exact same problem when I put on a new comp stage 2 clutch diisc and plate. Before that my flywheel was machined incorrectly and the step was too shallow and uneven. The first 1000 miles or so the car was making horrid juddering/clattering sounds from a standstill. After the clutch finally blew up on me I took it apart andd saw the outer edge was much more worn just like in your picture, and the flywheel had become concave. After machining (resurfacing) both flywheel and pressure plate faces, and installing a new friction disc and confirming FULL contact between all faces, all sounds, judders and issues related to a bad clutch went away.

So I strongly suggest you take your flywheel to get machined to the proper step height, check for warpage in all 3 components and then assemble and test drive. It is NORMAL for most NEW clutch kits to make a noise or vibrate slightly when getting broken in, but in your case the problem is clearly visible: uneven contact surfaces. It causes the disc to jump around and twist between both flywheel and PP.

I just put in the oem modular clutch (flexplate (for starter gears) and the "mod" clutch (flywheel, disc, and pp all riveted into one assembly)) in and it literally still does the same shit. It's literally a completely different clutch setup. Do you think adjusting the rod that connects the pedal and master maybe might get rid of it? When I first bought the car it had an act clutch kit and had no issues, it's when I put a "everyday" clutch from autozone in that it started. I even tried the oriellys clutch and same shit. Now I have a completely different clutch set up and still the same thing. I'm thinking that it was adjusted when the act clutch kit was put In and might have to be readjusted to use a regular clutch and not a performance clutch. Let me know what you think about this.

-thanks