Clutch engagement issues, trying to track down the answer

[mantega4g63]

Some history, the last owner said he installed a stage 3 6 puck clutch and new pressure plate/lightweight flywheel. All seemed well except for a stumble at start if i didn't give it enough rpms, I replaced the cv axle with a ripped boot and both roll stops with polyurethane because one was wrecked. the transaxle and driver side mount look fine but I have polyurethane ones of those as well, just in case i decide to replace. To the point - after getting everything in and driving around a little bit one day, the clutch started to basically fall out of adjustment it felt like. It had pressure in the system as it rises to the top still, but the engagement point of the clutch was the very bottom of the floor. My bushings in the pedal have always creaked and whined, when I press the clutch in I can hear a noise in that area. Me and my dad tested that there was pressure/fluid in the system, that the throwout bearing and slave cylinder were working, and he adjusted the clutch some. I've been trying to get this correctly adjusted since day one, i've seen a video but I'm not sure what is going on with my clutch now. It engages but I can't even feel it engaging, I just know where it does from memory. Anyone have a clue what is at fault? Some people have said clutch but my clutch is working, goes into all gears etc. some have said master cylinder, maybe the bleeder valve in it is bad or something? I've seen my slave cylinder bleeder valve leaking before, idk what to think

 

[ballzan]

Sou

Some history, the last owner said he installed a stage 3 6 puck clutch and new pressure plate/lightweight flywheel. All seemed well except for a stumble at start if i didn't give it enough rpms, I replaced the cv axle with a ripped boot and both roll stops with polyurethane because one was wrecked. the transaxle and driver side mount look fine but I have polyurethane ones of those as well, just in case i decide to replace. To the point - after getting everything in and driving around a little bit one day, the clutch started to basically fall out of adjustment it felt like. It had pressure in the system as it rises to the top still, but the engagement point of the clutch was the very bottom of the floor. My bushings in the pedal have always creaked and whined, when I press the clutch in I can hear a noise in that area. Me and my dad tested that there was pressure/fluid in the system, that the throwout bearing and slave cylinder were working, and he adjusted the clutch some. I've been trying to get this correctly adjusted since day one, i've seen a video but I'm not sure what is going on with my clutch now. It engages but I can't even feel it engaging, I just know where it does from memory. Anyone have a clue what is at fault? Some people have said clutch but my clutch is working, goes into all gears etc. some have said master cylinder, maybe the bleeder valve in it is bad or something? I've seen my slave cylinder bleeder valve leaking before, idk what to think

Sounds like the exact same problem I'm having. I would say try OEM master cylinder replacement and OEM Slave as well. I'm taking my to a deal to figure out my problem so ill let you know if that doesn't fix it.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Oem maybe, but did you adjust the clutch pedal maybe pull the transmission.

 

[Vet-Slayer]

I recommend that you pull the transaxle and check for leaks around the slave cylinder.You may have a release bearing issue.Check for proper installation of these parts.Have you bled the clutch system?

 

[Nekid]

Any disengagement issue, take a look at your fork in the rubber boot, it should be slightly towards the driver side of center.

 

[mantega4g63]

After driving it for a few miles today, the clutch was starting to catch a little better but after a while it was hard to get the shifter knob into the gears, it was becoming increasingly difficult. The car drove fine once into gears, i have to shove it into gear though

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Watch jack's video again and make sure the master is adjusted properly. How old is the disc?

 

[Twinturbo120]

You need to adjust the clutch pedal. If you have it improperly adjusted you can't get into gear right, like you said. Make sure it doesn't drag. Or else bye bye tranny. By that I mean rev the car to redline while in first gear. DON'T let go of the clutch. If the car moves you adjusted the pedal wrong. If you did it right, it won't move at ALL. Also make sure to bleed the slave, you might have some air.

 

[mantega4g63]

I bled the slave and we're trying to adjust it based off jacks video, and it seems my bleeder valve to the clutch master cylinder isnt functioning. My clutch pedal is soft and doesnt have a true release point. My slave cylinder wont compress, and we've been trying to adjust it. Any ideas?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I bled the slave and we're trying to adjust it based off jacks video, and it seems my bleeder valve to the clutch master cylinder isnt functioning. My clutch pedal is soft and doesnt have a true release point. My slave cylinder wont compress, and we've been trying to adjust it. Any ideas?

Screw the master rod all the way in (not past the threads though obviously). Now try to depress the slave.
If you can now depress the slave, start adjusting the rod out until you're happy.

If the pedal is soft you may need to re-bleed.

 

[Spyderman7]

From what you have been saying sounds like the master cyl is bad.Replace it and post back..

 

[mantega4g63]

From what you have been saying sounds like the master cyl is bad.Replace it and post back..

Went and got a master + slave today, will update tomorrow ty

 

[HighpsiaddicT]

adjust the pedal and bleed the system

 

[2GSXR]

I would definitely try bleeding the hydraulic clutch line. Any air bubbles inside can cause inconsistent engagement of the clutch which is what your issue sounds like to me. If you install the master and slave cylinders you'd need to bleed the system anyways. You could also remove the inspection cover on your transmission and look for any signs of extreme wear etc. Hope that solves your issue.

 

[mantega4g63]

I've already bled the system and tried to adjust it, the slave cylinder wasn't self-adjusting so I'm guessing the bleeder screw in the master cylinder to reservoir is faulty or something to do with the master cylinder. Might as well replace the slave cylinder, when I got the car and changed the gear oil it was so black you could only assume it had never been replaced

/e sorry didn't even pay attention to them trolling for posts

 

[mantega4g63]

My slave cylinder won't self adjust no matter how I adjust the clutch. I replaced the slave and master cylinder, bled the system, and adjusted the clutch all the way out. My car won't engage, is it a bad pressure plate?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

No, no, start with adjusting the clutch rod all the way in. Your slave will never depress properly if the master is at full extension.
A bad pressure plate will not cause your slave cylinder not to retract when the bleeder valve is unobstructed in the master.

 

[mantega4g63]

No, no, start with adjusting the clutch rod all the way in. Your slave will never depress properly if the master is at full extension.
A bad pressure plate will not cause your slave cylinder not to retract when the bleeder valve is unobstructed in the master.

How do I know when it's all the way in? Like when it's literally ALL the way in the thread? I would need pliers to turn the rod

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Your last post indicates to me that you have not adjusted the master cylinder rod at all; you need to do this.

I have no problem using my fingers to adjust the rod but you may use pliers if you wish.
You will know it's all the way in by using your eyes to look at how many threads have been threaded "in" compared to how many threads are still left to go. It's not even important that the rod gets screwed all the way in, either. You just want to screw the rod in a significant amount to uncover the bleeder in the master cylinder.
You will know you have completed this task effectively when you can depress your clutch fork into the slave cylinder by hand. If you cannot, then continue to screw the master rod in, until you can. Again, mind the threads, it's not the end of the world, but I don't like having to re-thread the rod into the clevis.

Moving forward from this, you will now want to adjust the rod out to achieve complete disengagement while still being able to manipulate the slave by hand. It's a balancing act but usually takes only 10minutes to do.


Oh, and sorry, I meant to get to this last week.

 

[Lou98GSX]

i would say to adjust the rod until there is a little play on top off the clutch pedal . i bet you have a lot of play in it now that is why your clutch grabs right away .

 

[mantega4g63]

Your last post indicates to me that you have not adjusted the master cylinder rod at all; you need to do this.

I have no problem using my fingers to adjust the rod but you may use pliers if you wish.
You will know it's all the way in by using your eyes to look at how many threads have been threaded "in" compared to how many threads are still left to go. It's not even important that the rod gets screwed all the way in, either. You just want to screw the rod in a significant amount to uncover the bleeder in the master cylinder.
You will know you have completed this task effectively when you can depress your clutch fork into the slave cylinder by hand. If you cannot, then continue to screw the master rod in, until you can. Again, mind the threads, it's not the end of the world, but I don't like having to re-thread the rod into the clevis.

Moving forward from this, you will now want to adjust the rod out to achieve complete disengagement while still being able to manipulate the slave by hand. It's a balancing act but usually takes only 10minutes to do.


Oh, and sorry, I meant to get to this last week.

I have a bad clutch fork or bad throwout bearing which is why my clutch is having disengagement issues. Which would be culprit do you guys think? It engages flawlessly when driving, but when disengaging I sometimes get chatter, and it doesn't take much to get the clutch out

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I honestly can't tell which way the wind is blowing in this thread. You're bouncing all over the place it seems and you're keeping your hand in close so we can't see all the cards. I want to help but I'm having problems understanding your level of competency. One minute it's an ordeal to turn the master rod with pliers and the next it's a cake-walk to get the clutch out.

Your symptoms are curious, and as a first step I wanted to establish that your hydraulics are in fact functioning properly.

Again, going forward..
If you know you have a bad TOB or a bad clutch fork (I'm not sure how, based on your posts), and you don't think it's too much trouble to pull the transmission....

So then just go do it. Right?

 

[mantega4g63]

I honestly can't tell which way the wind is blowing in this thread. You're bouncing all over the place it seems and you're keeping your hand in close so we can't see all the cards.
If you know you have a bad TOB and a bad clutch fork (I'm not sure how, based on your posts), and you don't think it's a big deal to pull the transmission....


So then just go do it. Right?

?
Obviously when my clutch wasn't disengaging properly I'm going to jump down the master cylinder/slave cylinders throat, i'm going to point at everything EXCEPT the clutch/pressure plate.
Replaced both of those, slave cylinder did turn out to be faulty, but after adjusting the clutch switch out and the adjustment rod on the slave cylinder from all the way in to all the way with no response from the slave cylinder, I'd have to assume it's the clutch fork or throwout bearing. I can see in the tranny, my pressure plate doesn't even have a spec of dirt on it. I'm not saying it's not one of the two, but my clutch is engaging just fine. It's when it's disengaging. I took it to a mechanic who has owned a few of these cars, and that's the best guess he's come up with (can't tell until we pull the tranny)

It's all over the place because I can't see inside the engine/tranny to know what's going on with the clutch. It was rough getting into gears, then I adjusted the clutch and it's smoother. But no matter what, the release point of the clutch is shady, it's like I have to dump it either way. There is no way to smoothly release the clutch. If I do it at lower rpms, it chatters. The best guess I can take is the clutch fork isn't properly engaging the tob, or the tob is in backwards or something. Do YOU have any input on what it is? That is the purpose of this thread


And sorry, I've never dropped a tranny. I've helped my dad pull a motor to do a clutch on a honda, I have SOME competence but the adjustment rod was confusing as #### to me because no matter how I adjusted it, the slave cylinder wouldn't give me a response to let me know I was doing it right

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I completely understand. If I were upside down in my car turning a rod looking for something to happen... that hasn't happened yet..

My experiences tell me that the TOB and the fork will be some of the last things to looks at, much like your first instincts as well. We need to backtrack and go back to the hydraulics.
There is nothing inside the transmission that will typically prevent proper hydraulic operation. So from that we can predict that it is not the clutch, the pressure plate, the fork, the pivot ball or the TOB that is preventing the expected behavior.

That leaves only a few things: air in the lines, faulty seal on one or more of the cylinders and improper adjustment. I can't treat this issue as anything other than a hydraulic issue until I'm confident that the hydraulics are operating properly. ..but that's not to say that your pivot ball hasn't worn a hole through the fork and your TOB is nothing but a twisted hunk of scrap metal.


If we were fast forwarding a bit, I might be considering a mangled up TOB. Does it make noise? Does the clutch only chatter when disengaging? After searching around a little it sounds like the people who get chatter during DISengagement do, in fact, have something gone awry inside the transmission ranging from input shafts to pilot bearings to TOB's. But it still remains true that none of these would inhibit the bleeder function of the master.

 

[mantega4g63]

It pretty much feels like the fork is only half ass pressing against the tob to pressure plate. The lines have been pressure bled a few times, i get nothing but drips. Both cylinders are new (not oem but i cant imagine blowing a seal in under 50 miles of driving) and i cant properly adjust the clutch because the slave cylinder wont self adjust. Im sure im forgetting some important info...