Change Rings With Head On?

[habitatguy187]

So I came across someone said in a 3 year old thread about being able to change piston rings just by taking off the oil pan, unbolting the rods from the crank, and pulling them out. Is this true? Is it possible to get them out without taking the crank out? Is it possible to hone the cylinder walls from the bottom?


My motor isn't horrible but I have a lot of crankcase pressure and I've narrowed it down to rings. My lowest compression cylinder when I tested last summer was 138, but it's gotten much worse since then I'm sure. I didn't start it all winter and now when the car is just idling there's lots of air coming out of the valve cover breather (yes my pcv system is hooked up correctly). I'm on a super budget and if I can't do this easier and cheaply (under $100) then I'll just hold off for now, but I'd really like to get them changed out and have some decent compression for once.

 

[viperlp01]

No it is not possible. When you try to pull the piston out is hits the block part of the girdle. Also I don't think you could get them back in.

 

[Dewayne Waldron]

That would be a complete pain in the ass. You would have to drop the crank to get the pistons out without removing the head. It's either or and with the engine still in the car the head would be the simplest to pull to get to them. Though you'll still have to drop the oil pan and you'll be under there anyway's.

 

[donniekak]

The pistons wont fit past the bearing journal cast into the block. Beside that, you have to remove the oil pump, transmission, fylwheel, and rear main seal to remove the crank.

 

[habitatguy187]

Thanks for the answers guys. I have another stupid question:

If I pull the head can I get away with just changing the piston rings, a hone, and a headgasket or is there more that I NEED to replace while I'm at it?

 

[viperlp01]

Ya you are fine.. You might wanna do a timing belt while it is off.

 

[habitatguy187]

Ya you are fine.. You might wanna do a timing belt while it is off.

Great news!

Timing belt and related parts were done about 6k ago. I did a lot of searching and got so many different answers, but I figured for a budget I could just replace the hg and rings, that's really good to hear. I'd like to do new pistons and rods but in reality I've already spent too much money on this fwd car.



The plan is to mark the t-belt in two places on each cam gear and pull the head off with the intake and exhaust mani still on it, leave the block in the car, and do everything else from there. I'll be digging out my haynes tomorrow and going over stuff but if anyone has any advice/tips I'm open to hear them. Thanks

 

[toofast82]

I don't see how you would compress the rings when attempting to install pistons with the head on, ?

Since your current engine must run somewhat good since you recently trapped 110mph, but personally I'd probably try and source another shortblock and have the necessary machine work needed and build a fresh one with all new bearings, rings, etc.
Then when you are done, just swap the engines and there should be very minimal downtime

 

[habitatguy187]

I don't see how you would compress the rings when attempting to install pistons with the head on, ?

I know newb question right? I've done clutch changes and motor swaps but I've never actually taken a motor apart. Most I've done is take off the valve cover . I'm extremely new to what needs to be done but I learn quick.

Since your current engine must run somewhat good since you recently trapped 110mph, but personally I'd probably try and source another shortblock and have the necessary machine work needed and build a fresh one with all new bearings, rings, etc.
Then when you are done, just swap the engines and there should be very minimal downtime

A buddy has one sitting in my garage that needs rebuilt but he won't budge on it, even if I core mine to him. And I'd really like to do it right and do it once but I lost my job recently and it's not possible right now. This winter for sure if I don't get an awd before then.


As for it running somewhat good ..... It always starts and it doesn't smoke much at all, but the crankcase pressure is through the roof even at idle, with the pcv and crankcase breather tube hooked up to the intake. I drilled two extra holes in my valve cover just so I would stop shooting oil from my oil cap and dipstick. The dipstick still pops out a little every now and then, but I can live with that. Also my little 5 gallon air compressor can't even hold air past 10psi when doing a boost leak test because it all escapes out the valve cover breather, it's really horrible. I'm really surprised the car runs as well as it does.

I'm probably pushing my poor bastard 20g around 30psi just to make it hold 22 since so much is escaping out the crankcase. I'm betting a fresh set of rings would be a whole world of difference.

 

[toofast82]

I know newb question right? I've done clutch changes and motor swaps but I've never actually taken a motor apart. Most I've done is take off the valve cover . I'm extremely new to what needs to be done but I learn quick.

You could always buy a jdm engine for a little over $1k, if you're going to be on a tight budget and looking for something with a little less blowby
Plus, i'm sure you could sell some of your current engine parts and make quite a bit of money back.

 

[habitatguy187]

Toofast is there a reason you recommend going this route? Is the way I'm wanting to do it going to cause reliability problems down the road? Like I said as long as I get through the season I wouldn't mind doing a full bottom-end rebuild this winter, but if changing the rings and hg now will cause problems before then I'll just scratch the idea.

 

[jrohner]

If money is tight right now, I would just leave it alone. My 2g has had under 120psi of compression for a long time, and I haven't had any issues.

Usually the cheap way and the right way are not the same. Save up and have the whole engine gone through, or look for a deal on one. Sometimes there's deals on built engines online because someone spends all their money on the engine, and then remember that they have bills to pay.

 

[toofast82]

Toofast is there a reason you recommend going this route? Is the way I'm wanting to do it going to cause reliability problems down the road? Like I said as long as I get through the season I wouldn't mind doing a full bottom-end rebuild this winter, but if changing the rings and hg now will cause problems before then I'll just scratch the idea.

jrohner basically said above what I was thinking

 

[Red Alert]

Hahn Racecraft did this with that black neon that set all those records way back in the day. They took it into the 10's IIRC before finally pulling the motor for a proper rebuild.

 

[habitatguy187]

Hahn Racecraft did this with that black neon that set all those records way back in the day. They took it into the 10's IIRC before finally pulling the motor for a proper rebuild.

Did what exactly? Just rings and hg?

 

[Red Alert]

Did what exactly? Just rings and hg?

Sorry for the late reply, I forgot I posted in this thread!

No headgasket, they pulled everything out the bottom, and swapped to billet rods and forged pistons, and shoved it back in...

 

[brian9397gsx]

i like to see a link to that.

 

[Cassera]

Ya you are fine.. You might wanna do a timing belt while it is off.

Timing belt AND a balance shaft belt while its off.

 

[viperlp01]

Or a balance shaft delete while it is out

 

[Red Alert]

i like to see a link to that.

I did a quick look on the website, and they no longer have the step by step progress of the black neon. This pic says a little bit about what I was talking about.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

And, perhaps even more amazing, its engine is still mostly stock, with the exception of forged pistons and billet connecting rods. The completely stock cylinder head has never been disassembled in 45,000 miles of use!

That's all I can find...

 

[TFFC]

Why not just pull the head off? A head gasket isn't that expensive, or run it till you get proper funds, Do it once, and do it right!