ECMlink Car bit the dust, log attached. What happened?

[livedsm4g63]

Sounds like the car jumped timing.
Very odd to see all rockers off, but nothing amazes me anymore. Its what happens when you stay around DSM far too long.
What could have caused this? If timing is jumped for a longer period then a few teeth. (Multiple rotations of the cam)
This would point to a faulty tensioner or an improper install of one near the edge of its travel.

 

[Vegas Smith]

Mods won't be happy, but it's worth it. This ones for you:

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[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Hey guys, you all are great. When the time comes, I will get the front cover off before I do anything and get a good gander and a few pictures.
Thanks and when I get back to the car, we can all reminis about all that happened!
Love my DSM family, always supportive!
Happy DSM'ing y'all!!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Love it Vegas. I really love it. Put the smile on my face.....thanks man!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Ok, for all of you that were trying to help me out, I popped the hood today and looked twice at what I was seeing.
Here is the problem that killed the car. I don't know when I will have time to fix her, but at least all of you now know, like I do.
Shit happens!
It's kinda sad.
The crank bolt was finger tight/loose.

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[ChessmoDSM]

sorry man that really stinks!!

 

[19gsx91]

That sucks Marty.. it looks like we're both getting bit by some bad DSM luck.. maybe it's because you and I brag the most about daily driving our DSMs

 

[ChessmoDSM]

I will buy both of your cars for parts!!! .. joking of course, can't wait to see both of these choice rides back on the road as time and funds allow..

 

[Murdertalon]

Oh you mean the main crank bolt.. I was like the crank pulley has 4 bolts.. and then realized the main crank bolt in the center holds the timing belt sprocket in place too. Hopefully It will just need a new/ reworked head and be right again. I put my suspension together yesterday and I was putting the tires on when I realized I didn't put the lower sway bar back on one side.. had to take tire back off and put it right. Then managed to lose both cotter pins to the tie rod ends I had just replaced. I drove the car a couple miles without the cotter pins in and the whole time was worried about that.

I wonder if any other DSM guys are in your area and wouldn't mind giving a hand pulling it apart?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Thanks all of you! The only DSMer's I have in my area are my sons, 25 and 19, and both have been around these for years with me. The oldest has his own 97 TSI AUTO and the youngest has helped me with my build and tunes with me all the time. They have lives too, but are willing to chip in and just pull it all out and do it inside somewhere. It needs a better clutch anyway so might as well. Hope it's not years before it is running again because I loved choo chooin around muscle all the time. That should get me motivated but I don't have a shop, just a shade tree mechanic. When it comes back it will be even more of a monster (changes in store).
I think I bought another 90 last night, dirt cheap needing the engine reassembled, but I won't find out until later.
Thanks my supportive forum family!!!
Marty

 

[bastarddsm]

Hate to be a bearer of bad news, but you'll probably need a crank too. Usually when that comes loose it wears the crank snout, and it'll never stay tight again.

When put them together i smear a light coat of red loctite on the inside of the timing pulley, helps lock it in there. But it has to be light and controlled, if it oozes out into the axial faces it can cause issues. It will "take up some slack" and after it runs a while it can turn the loctite to powder and then you loose the clamp load on the bolt, and it is now loose.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Yeah, I will definitely have to check the snout. My son is buddies with John Whalen and he told my son to tell me, get the biggest baddest impact, some red locktite and lock that bi*** on. I think those were his exact words .
Thanks Kurt, I hate to check it but will have to. 3k miles on a Eagle crank.... Nice tip sir!

 

[bastarddsm]

Don't listen to John whalen on that. That is wrong you end up warping the washer and it breaks the register where the damper rides. Red loctite and torque to spec. If any part is questionable replace ir

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Thank you again!
Do you think I can tell by feel or do we have a spec for the snout diameter?

Hell, I have a good stock crank, I will grab it and a micrometer.

 

[SasaniFab]

Wow....this is the reason I go over my car before taking it out everytime. People think im crazy.....that sucks man, its usually something so stupid...

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Thanks for the condolences, call it stupid call it just DSM luck. I'm not surprised anymore, I've had so many things just snap or out of the blue happen. Oil filter came loose during a pull once, ruined that turbo in about a week. At 7k+ oil pressure lite comes on, I hit the key but of course the dam turbo was cruising at 100,000 rpm's with no oil. Inducer nut came of on me once, Justin hadn't even seen that happen on a left hand thread. Snapped a shaft or 2. Crazy shit. But you just HAVE to take a breath, save up some mula and take a few weeks to freshen it up. Whats new
Sounds about normal to me unfortunately. I'm down to my 92 auto car which is LAME compaired to the 90 BUT it drives and is dependable for a dsm. (Starter went out yesterday, jeeze)
I am trying to smile thru this all, there are other things that are far more important in the short term right now.
I'm gonna keep this posted as I rebuild but the only way I could find my own post was to Google search for it .
Thanks guys!
Any more comments are welcome!

 

[SasaniFab]

I have strange habits with my car, I always kneel down and grab the m8 crank pulley bolts and try to spin them. I check the torque on the adj cam gears bolts. Then I check the oil level, gently squeeze the coolant hose as im super paranoid about loosing coolant. Maybe its because ive done so much dumb ass shit....Like forgetting to put axles nuts on my civic. I remembered quickly when my entire lca assembly gave out and the car landed on the rotors.

 

[sacrileger]

Thank you ALL. At the least a picture of the valve cover off and maybe a short video today. Pictures for sure. Dad is in the hospital so priorities are not on the beast but 5 min's to take the VC off and let me and all of you friends of mine know what I see. I do really appreciate you all. I thought maybe my tuning did something to the motor but all signs point to mechanical failure of some sort.
Pics after 3pm.....

I'd like to know if yours is worse than what I dealt with here:
https://tinyurl.com/ybyx3r5x

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Nope, but the little curly shavings you had were from milling the head. I got lucky and found a few on my HG when I was test fitting everything so I took my head to the compressed air and you wouldn't believe how much material I got out. I kept rolling the head around over my head to get some more out. I spent a good 15 mins with 120 psi blowing out all the passages until I was satisfied there were no more. I haven't taken the head off yet but all of my valves are still in the head, just bent so they won't close all the way. No rockers with broken rollers. How did that happen? Forget to bleed the lifters??
I can only speculate that I need 16 valves and machine work, maybe. New belt since I am there and a good HG so, right there is some money. I want to upgrade to bigger cams too and a heavier clutch or twin before I get it back out for Muscle Car taming. Cha Ching, but as always, you gotta pay to play!

 

[sacrileger]

Nope, but the little curly shavings you had were from milling the head. I got lucky and found a few on my HG when I was test fitting everything so I took my head to the compressed air and you wouldn't believe how much material I got out. I kept rolling the head around over my head to get some more out. I spent a good 15 mins with 120 psi blowing out all the passages until I was satisfied there were no more. I haven't taken the head off yet but all of my valves are still in the head, just bent so they won't close all the way. No rockers with broken rollers. How did that happen? Forget to bleed the lifters??
I can only speculate that I need 16 valves and machine work, maybe. New belt since I am there and a good HG so, right there is some money. I want to upgrade to bigger cams too and a heavier clutch or twin before I get it back out for Muscle Car taming. Cha Ching, but as always, you gotta pay to play!

It was a donor car I bought for $400 from somebody who thought the engine is just about to die. And he was right. But for the wrong reason. I did think the timing was off but there was this liquid dripping out of the tailpipe so I thought it was a cracked intake manifold, the coolant was getting into the cylinders. So I wanted to make sure it was not condensation or simply water that somebody sprayed in while watering their lawn and as I was waiting for the engine to warm up at idle speed, the cam belt jumped a few teeth and the rest is history. The impact of the cylinder head into the intake valve put a hole into the cylinder and the stem of the valve crushed one roller. I was surprised the cam survived. I am running the cams now. The car is back on the road. I bought a used 2g engine for less than $100, took pistons out of it, put new rings on, installed the 2g head on the 1g block and it's all good again. Here's the 1g 7bolt engine with 2g head on it:

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I spoke to the original owner recently and told him what eventually happened with the motor. He said he changed the cam belt himself but did not replace the silent shaft belt so he figured the short belt snapped. I told him that was not the case. The case was that he did not set the timing correctly and by the time I got to it it jumped on me and destroyed the head and one cylinder. He said the engine ran fine for at least 10K miles and then suddenly it started running really rough. I asked how he set the hydraulic auto tensioner? He said, "What's that?". And then it was clear. The auto tensioner was fully extended and once the belt stretched, there was not anything to take out the slack.
Speaking of shavings and other garbage in engine internals. Here we are, obsessing over every little detail, worrying about being a couple 1000's off, porting heads for better and more oil flow and meanwhile, there's chunks of metal right from the factory (or machine shop) blocking the passages internally. My bet is that if these metal shavings are in heads, they are also in the block. I wonder how many engines fail because there are obstructions blocking proper oil/coolant flow. I am shocked more water or oil pumps dont fail due metal/alum chips left after milling.