Cant Decide which route to go...

[BorinquenEclips]

Hi I have a 95 GSX thats up on jackstands right now with bent valves. Its a project that I have been working on for a while and I really really miss driving my car! Right now im stuck with my Eclipse RS for now.

Anyways before the GSX i was planning on turboing the RS so I bought a t3/t4 50 trim turbo from a friend of mine for 50 bucks that needed to be rebuilt. I can send it to Blaast Performance and have it rebuilt for $150 so I figured it wasnt to bad.

But then I came across the GSX and obviously like everyone was saying, ditch the RS and get a real Eclipse! So I did and it only lasted me a month before I blew it . Now after researching throughout the forum on what route to go with the GSX I came across Holset and was immediatley sold. I signed up on the Cummins forums and immediatley found a Holset for $250 shipped. But I already have the T3/T4 turbo.

So my question is for you guys to convince me. Should I just stick with the T3/T4 50 trim and rebuild it and buy the manifold required for it and all other supporting mods??? OOOR should I go with Holset, send that to be rebuilt, install the BEP bolt on housing and with all other supporting mods???

My goal right now is to do a somewhat factory rebuild on the 7 bolt with 2g piston/ 1g rod combo, maybe some cams im not to sure yet, and then just open up the airflow a good bit( turbo back exhaust, FMIC, etc...). I want to get the car running and have close to 350whp.

I know for the goal I could just buy an Evo 3 16g but thats not where im stopping. My all time goal is to have this car at 500WHP! A 16g wont cut it. So while the car is being driven I have a 6 bolt block that will be built little by little till it is ready to be dropped in. As soon as I drop that in I will be looking for 500whp. So that is why I want to get the right turbo for my goal of 500hp first. I dont really feel like getting a turbo for 350hp now, and then buying another one to reach 500hp.

Sorry for just rambling on but I think I covered everything you guys need to know to help me out. All insight is appreciated. Feel free to flame my ideas .

 

[400hp93talon]

Well I dont know about the holset turbo really....but I'm pretty sure the 50 trim will never be able to get you to 500whp the 350whp is more reasonable for it I would think!!

 

[BorinquenEclips]

Well I dont know about the holset turbo really....but I'm pretty sure the 50 trim will never be able to get you to 500whp the 350whp is more reasonable for it I would think!!

See I don't know much about the T3/T4 turbo, and I have been researching about the Holset online for weeks now. If im right I think ill be close to maxing out the Holset but im not to sure Im just trying to see where to put the money, budgets not to much of a problem because the Holsets are pretty cheap to get and I already have the other turbo.

Any other insight?

 

[LTUDSM]

See I don't know much about the T3/T4 turbo, and I have been researching about the Holset online for weeks now. If im right I think ill be close to maxing out the Holset but im not to sure Im just trying to see where to put the money, budgets not to much of a problem because the Holsets are pretty cheap to get and I already have the other turbo.

Any other insight?

To reach 500whp with hx35 will be really hard.Couple of members did that. Shooting 500whp you should go with HX 40,because you will still have some more meet to go up in front with that hx40. HX 40's are a bit more expensive,but you can find a blown one for a really cheap ,and to rebuilt it, would be from 200 to 250$

 

[BorinquenEclips]

To reach 500whp with hx35 will be really hard.Couple of members did that. Shooting 500whp you should go with HX 40,because you will still have some more meet to go up in front with that hx40. HX 40's are a bit more expensive,but you can find a blown one for a really cheap ,and to rebuilt it, would be from 200 to 250$

I thought about the HX40 but I want relatively quick spool somewhere around 3500rpms or so and the HX40 seemed to kick in closer to 4000rpms maybe even after! I cant remember im going to have to read the holset threads again.

 

[LTUDSM]

I thought about the HX40 but I want relatively quick spool somewhere around 3500rpms or so and the HX40 seemed to kick in closer to 4000rpms maybe even after! I cant remember im going to have to read the holset threads again.

you said ,that you will be upgrading cams. So Bigger cams and SMIM would give the HX40 better spool

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Go with a HX35 for that. 52 lb/min can do 500whp while reaching about 20 psi at 3500 rpm or you could go for the HX35-40 hybrid turbo that can do 600whp while reaching about 20 psi at 4000 rpm.

I mean you can't beat the Holset turbo unless you're willing to pay over double the price with for a Borg Warner or FP turbo that will spool slower and meet your target of 500whp.

you said ,that you will be upgrading cams. So Bigger cams and SMIM would give the HX40 better spool

No it won't. Having a SMIM and bigger cams with definitely slow the spool speed down in the lower end. It will only give it more top end power.

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

Go with the HX40. I personally would go with a garrett r35 for 500whp. I think you would be pretty good with a 20g as well though, I don't know if it would make 500whp or not, but it will definitely get close. I plan on going with an 18g in low 20's on boost for around 400whp.

 

[JusMX141]

Anyways before the GSX i was planning on turboing the RS so I bought a t3/t4 50 trim turbo from a friend of mine for 50 bucks that needed to be rebuilt.

Not a bad deal on the turbo as long as it's rebuildable, but a 50-trim is far too large for a stock RS application. There are better turbo choices that would provide more airflow at the low boost level that you'll be limited to without being too laggy.

I came across Holset and was immediatley sold. I signed up on the Cummins forums and immediatley found a Holset for $250 shipped. But I already have the T3/T4 turbo.

Glad you bought into the Holset (I'm guessing HX35?)....but $250's basically what they sell for these days. You got a deal, but not a smoking deal.

Should I just stick with the T3/T4 50 trim and rebuild it and buy the manifold required for it and all other supporting mods??? OOOR should I go with Holset, send that to be rebuilt, install the BEP bolt on housing and with all other supporting mods???

Which car are we talking about putting which turbo on here?

 

[ricktb]

sounds like your getting a bit ambitious with your goals, despite having serious engine work to do... focus on the engine and slap the rest together for now and you'll be back on the road sooner.. You can always sell your turbo later and buy a better one suited for your goals. A dsm on jackstands is no fun at all!!

 

[BorinquenEclips]

Which car are we talking about putting which turbo on here?

Sorry bout that the turbo is for the GSX. The T3/T4 was supposed to be for my RS but now im not even paying any more attention to the RS. All mods are for the GSX .

Anyways yes I am talking about an HX35 that apparently has no play at all but im going with worst case senario. I dont know something about the pricing and the potential out of Holset turbos just got me into them. What I was looking for is a turbo with the potential of making 500whp that would also spool quickly. The Holset seems to do it better than other turbos. So far im still leaning towards just selling the T3/T4 and buying the Holset HX35. I will research the HX40 as well but I will need something to convince me to get an HX40. The only thing I dont like about them is that I have to wait till 4000rpms to feel the boost.

Let me just say one thing that before the GSX I have NEVER driven a turbo car before, I have only been in my friends turboed cars. So I feel that I could be over exaggerating when I say itll take forever for the turbo to kick in if I have to wait till 4000rpms. I was only able to drive the GSX a month since I got a little boost happy with a heavy foot

 

[1gDSM4g63]

The Holset turbo is probably the fastest spooling turbo for what your goals are in power. If you cannot handle this turbo lag go to a stroker setup or I suggest you move on to another more expensive car to get the best of both worlds. No matter what choice you make on a DSM with a Holset you're walking a fine line with your expect situation. It'll take a superb build and tuning to be able to put that down.

 

[IgotBoost91]

Well how did you blow up the gsx?

 

[BorinquenEclips]

The Holset turbo is probably the fastest spooling turbo for what your goals are in power. If you cannot handle this turbo lag go to a stroker setup or I suggest you move on to another more expensive car to get the best of both worlds. No matter what choice you make on a DSM with a Holset you're walking a fine line with your expect situation. It'll take a superb build and tuning to be able to put that down.

Yup Im learning and im getting coached by my dsm friend that lives in my neighboorhood along with other friends that have turboed cars along with reading on here and on DSMTalk. As far as lag if my car were FWD, probably, especially for that amount of power. But for an AWD i keep hearing that their top end is hurt because of all the power lost before it gets to the ground. Its not that I cant handle the lag, if its going to get me to my power goal then ill get it. Im just looking for a fun turbo you know? Does that make sense?

Edit: It jumped a couple teeth on the timing belt and bent all the intake valves on the GSX, thats how I blew it.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Holset range of spooling at 3500-4000 rpm is not consider laggy and you'll get loads of top end power. That's where all the fun comes in because it'll just put you in the back of your seat. Mind you that we're not saying it'll start spool at 3500-4000 rpm we're saying it'll be a the 20 psi mark in that range. It's just simply a trade off of more power more lag whereas less lag equal less power and the Holset is the best if you're looking for the power with the least amount of lag.

It you're looking for on the line drag car setup then go to a stroker with a Holset. That'll be a torque monster. If it's just a fun daily driving car just learn to play with the gears assume that is a manual.

 

[BorinquenEclips]

Yea its manual, and I have been reading about other peoples builds with the HX40 and it seems like they are pretty happy with their set-ups. I may just go that route but im indecisive if you havent noticed. Im actually more of a Road Racing guy than Straight Line racing. I would like to hit the drag strip a couple a times just to see what I can do.

As far as doing a stroker I have been looking into the 2.2l stroker. Since I already have a 6 bolt block I really dont feel like going out and looking for a 4g64 block do destroke it to a 2.2 so I was looking into doing the 6 bolt with a 94mm crank, stroker pistons, and custom 153mm rods (to keep from shaving the block that extra 3mm) but this is a big MAYBE because I have not looked into the pricing yet and im expecting it to be expensive. If not ill just go with a built 2.0.

The HX40 is actually looking pretty good to me right now. Ill keep reading the Holset threads (man these threads are long!!) but I think i can live sacraficing an extra 500rpms for the top end fun. Thanks for the help guys any more insight is appreciated!

Edit: Sorry ricktb i just noticed your reply. The reason I am looking for power now is because its not my daily driver yet. Since I have the RS to drive i dont have to stop my life to get my car running. Since i have something else to drive i feel like its a perfect time to pull the motor and do a little extra to it since I have something else to drive you know what i mean? But your absolutely right a DSM on jackstands is not fun at all. Heck my RS gets on jackstands pretty often to! It just doesnt want to stop leaking oil . I gave up on that.

 

[Cassera]

I would just do the stroker and put a huge turbo (assuming all supporting mods are there including headstuds) Maybe even bigger than a hx40. If you were to stroke it, you would have a lot more torque to get you off the line faster, so turbo lag doesnt really play a big factor in stroked engines because they naturally have the torque to get you off the line and have the power in lower rpm. So I would say go with a turbo that WILL give you lag with a stroker so this way you still get off the line fast with the stroker and you have great topend from that huge turbo.

With that setup I would get some decent cams like hks272's, dual valve springs/retainers with a Sheet Metal Intake Manifold so you can up the rev a little bit to give that huge turbo some room to work with.

Does anybody agree with me? This is what I plan on doing.

 

[JusMX141]

What I was looking for is a turbo with the potential of making 500whp that would also spool quickly.

Let me just say one thing that before the GSX I have NEVER driven a turbo car before

Um, no offense but do you have any idea what type of investment of time and money it takes to build / maintain / operate a 500whp car let alone keep it driving in a straight line?

I've seen way too many of the cliche' "how to run 10's or make 500whp even though I've never owned a turbo car before" threads lately....this one is just added to the collection. Most of you guys don't even know what 300whp feels like, and you're trying to make 500.

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But for an AWD i keep hearing that their top end is hurt because of all the power lost before it gets to the ground.

Ride in a fast AWD car and you'll forget everything you've heard. Keep in mind what small amount of top end pull an AWD may lose in drivetrain loss it gains tenfold in launching ability.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

The OP probably doesn't want go as far as that.

My goal right now is to do a somewhat factory rebuild on the 7 bolt with 2g piston/ 1g rod combo, maybe some cams im not to sure yet, and then just open up the airflow a good bit( turbo back exhaust, FMIC, etc...).

And if you do a stroker with a bigger turbo than the HX40 I would go for bigger cams than an HKS 272 with Kiggly springs.

I've seen way too many of the cliche' "how to run 10's or make 500whp even though I've never owned a turbo car before" threads lately....this one is just added to the collection. Most of you guys don't even know what 300whp feels like, and you're trying to make 500.

That's exactly true, people have no idea what 200 more whp came do. It's a completely wild ride which I doubt newbs can handle. Plus it's not that easy on a stock block. It will require a lot more money that you had expect. It requires a well built block that can handle the power, turbo, fuel systems, tuning device, transmission, etc... It's not just a simple slap-on turbo that will make this happen.

 

[BorinquenEclips]

Um, no offense but do you have any idea what type of investment of time and money it takes to build / maintain / operate a 500whp car let alone keep it driving in a straight line?

I've seen way too many of the cliche' "how to run 10's or make 500whp even though I've never owned a turbo car before" threads lately....this one is just added to the collection. Most of you guys don't even know what 300whp feels like, and you're trying to make 500.

I knew someone was going to say something about that. Let me just say I have been in 500whp cars before. My closest friends have a 505whp CRX and a 564whp 240sx. Of course none of those are AWD DSMs but they are powerful cars.

Now in the beginning of the thread I stated I was looking for close to 350hp first for now. The 500hp is what I want to GROW to. The thread is not about getting to 500hp, its about what turbo I should pick that I could later on crank up to help me reach 500hp. 350hp is the first goal, 500hp is the last and final goal.

I just want to clearify the question was what turbo would be good for me to crank up later. By no means am I shooting for 500hp now! The goal is 350 with a turbo that I can turn up to 500hp later. I understand the fact that the motor must be built, thats why I said I was going to build a 6 bolt on the side while I drive the car.

 

[Cassera]

I just want to clearify the question was what turbo would be good for me to crank up later. By no means am I shooting for 500hp now! The goal is 350 with a turbo that I can turn up to 500hp later. I understand the fact that the motor must be built, thats why I said I was going to build a 6 bolt on the side while I drive the car.

I'd say it's a throwup between an FP Green and an FP red. The fp red isnt really designed for 350hp, it is designed for more, I would say an fp green because you can always do some porting work to it and upgrade it to handle 400+hp while also doing great at 350hp. This is assuming you don't go stroker.

I just like Forced Performance turbos, I havent really looked into Holset turbos.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

I just want to clearify the question was what turbo would be good for me to crank up later. By no means am I shooting for 500hp now! The goal is 350 with a turbo that I can turn up to 500hp later. I understand the fact that the motor must be built, thats why I said I was going to build a 6 bolt on the side while I drive the car.

Sorry, I was just skim through the first post and didn't notice the specifics, but you seem to be a conceptual guy that most certainly knows how to go about this.

 

[BorinquenEclips]

Thanks, but you guys are absolutely right though i need to slow down 500hp is a lot for just now learning what 20psi feels like. But its just I want to catch up to my friends CRX and 240's so bad!

 

[JusMX141]

But its just I want to catch up to my friends CRX and 240's so bad!

Race the CRX in the 1/8th mile from a dig. You'll win in stock form.

 

[BorinquenEclips]

So Ive actually convinced myself to go with an HX40 instead of the HX35. The only confusing thing is every post talks about T3 and T4 setups. Is there no housing for the HX40 that will bolt up to the factory style housing, or do you get more gains buy going T3 or T4? Seems like a lot of people have had a lot of success with the HX40 and I havent found a post where someone complained about it.