Can stock 1g pistons hold 450whp?????

[91gvr4gsr]

ok i was just reading and im hearing stock 6 bolt rods can handle about 450whp and thats just were i want to be at .....but now i want to find out if the stock pistons will hold safely at that hp... if not will aftermarket pistons fit stock 6 bolt rods??/

 

[nlzn]

In reply to the above,

A lot is possible depending on the parts and the person assembling/driving/tuning.
I personally think you're playing with fire on stockers at that amount of power.

Remember, tuning IS insurance when combined with the proper parts

 

[blownturbotsi]

In reply to the above,

A lot is possible depending on the parts and the person assembling/driving/tuning.
I personally think you're playing with fire on stockers at that amount of power.

Remember, tuning IS insurance when combined with the proper parts

When you have someone like Wes Hess behind the car, you tend to make power.

The owner recently ran a 10.9 @ 135 if my memory serves me right. Still a full interior complete car.

 

[dsm-onster]

I wouldn't hesitate to take stock parts to that powerlevel. I've driven my car for years at that level with a stock bottem end. Survives the hot summer (goes from zero knock to about 3 counts on the scanmaster; not degrees retard in dsmlink) and denser aircharge of the winter (more cylinder pressure).

 

[91gvr4gsr]

I wouldn't hesitate to take stock parts to that powerlevel. I've driven my car for years at that level with a stock bottem end. Survives the hot summer (goes from zero knock to about 3 counts on the scanmaster; not degrees retard in dsmlink) and denser aircharge of the winter (more cylinder pressure).

ok i just got a set of 2g pistons on 1g rods ready to go........................now i need a set of piston rings were to get them from

 

[BkzProblem]

I know of a person that has ~580awhp actually on 2g pistons/1g rod combo. It can happen.

I never said that it CANT happen.. I said that it would not be SAFE to do it. dsm-monster knows a lot about dsms. thats why hes a wiseman.. he can afford to take his car to 450whp ant not worry because he knows what he is doing... aND THAT GOES FOR EVERYONE THAT DOES AMAZING FEETS WITH STOCK TURBOS ETC.... I would not suggest that you tell someone that doesnt know the limitations of stock 4g63's to run on stock internals. it is a risky task to make that power on stock internals and it would be ALOT SAFER to make 450whp on forged internals in case he does make a mistake....

 

[91gvr4gsr]

I never said that it CANT happen.. I said that it would not be SAFE to do it. dsm-monster knows a lot about dsms. thats why hes a wiseman.. he can afford to take his car to 450whp ant not worry because he knows what he is doing... aND THAT GOES FOR EVERYONE THAT DOES AMAZING FEETS WITH STOCK TURBOS ETC.... I would not suggest that you tell someone that doesnt know the limitations of stock 4g63's to run on stock internals. it is a risky task to make that power on stock internals and it would be ALOT SAFER to make 450whp on forged internals in case he does make a mistake....

your right ....but i have to start somewere and if i blow up ill try it again til i get it right .....

 

[dsm-onster]

I never said that it CANT happen.. I said that it would not be SAFE to do it. dsm-monster knows a lot about dsms. thats why hes a wiseman.. he can afford to take his car to 450whp ant not worry because he knows what he is doing... aND THAT GOES FOR EVERYONE THAT DOES AMAZING FEETS WITH STOCK TURBOS ETC.... I would not suggest that you tell someone that doesnt know the limitations of stock 4g63's to run on stock internals. it is a risky task to make that power on stock internals and it would be ALOT SAFER to make 450whp on forged internals in case he does make a mistake....

Here's the huge secret:

1. materials: Logger, proper maf, fuel control decent size FMIC, properly sized fuel system, properly sized turbo (50-trim, hx35, 20g, fp3052, gt3076r, etc), cam upgrade (the bigger the cam the more power you get at a lower boost: easier to tune). The bigger the turbo the easier to tune. Good flowing exhaust and intake (preturbo). There's not much more that you need. Run water injection if you want insurance, don't bother with forged internals.

2. tuning: Don't run lean. Stay at 11:1 or richer. IF you get knock go richer until you see no knock. Don't add timing. Add boost 1 psi at a time. When you see light knock back off the boost a little, THEN go back and tweek timing, if you're setup allows, one degree at a time.


That's it. Anyone can do this now. So we all now have 550whp pistons that can take a daily beating at 450whp all year long. I don't see how you can make a mistake with that information. Just don't see the knock and still up the boost or timing; but what goof would do that?

. . . I am NOT remotely close to the best at *tuning* these motors. But the above gives you an idea that there's more to tuning than jsut timing, boost, and a/f ratio. Proper part selection is a given assumption when reading my earlier post. A conservative tune still yields your goal when you install the right parts that can be easily decided based on the wealth of data in just this one site. What works well at which HP level you choose can all be researched easily. These cars have been around for YEARS.

 

[BkzProblem]

Here's the huge secret:

1. materials: Logger, proper maf, fuel control decent size FMIC, properly sized fuel system, properly sized turbo (50-trim, hx35, 20g, fp3052, gt3076r, etc), cam upgrade (the bigger the cam the more power you get at a lower boost: easier to tune). The bigger the turbo the easier to tune. Good flowing exhaust and intake (preturbo). There's not much more that you need. Run water injection if you want insurance, don't bother with forged internals.

2. tuning: Don't run lean. Stay at 11:1 or richer. IF you get knock go richer until you see no knock. Don't add timing. Add boost 1 psi at a time. When you see light knock back off the boost a little, THEN go back and tweek timing, if you're setup allows, one degree at a time.


That's it. Anyone can do this now. So we all now have 550whp pistons that can take a daily beating at 450whp all year long. I don't see how you can make a mistake with that information. Just don't see the knock and still up the boost or timing; but what goof would do that?

. . . I am NOT remotely close to the best at *tuning* these motors. But the above gives you an idea that there's more to tuning than jsut timing, boost, and a/f ratio. Proper part selection is a given assumption when reading my earlier post. A conservative tune still yields your goal when you install the right parts that can be easily decided based on the wealth of data in just this one site. What works well at which HP level you choose can all be researched easily. These cars have been around for YEARS.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all... but there is a difference... you can give some people everything you know about tuning/cars and they can still blow up without experience... IT CAN BE DONE!!!! Yes we all know but, there is a difference in just knowing information and experience... Put it this way would you trust someone that just came out of medical school to perform a open heart surgery on you (god forbid) or would you rather someone that has done a few hundered of them sucsessfully??

 

[talonDSMerr]

That's a little obvious, but everyone has to start somewhere. If they have more knowledge of it, then they stand a better chance at accomplishing what they set off to do in the first place. Both good points, if you have an idea of what you want to do, try it yourself and save some money. If you want experienced hands tuning the car, you're going to have to pay a pretty penny.

 

[karl GSX]

thats y some of the people who have dsm sould have a honda because they dont know.

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm not disagreeing with you at all... but there is a difference... you can give some people everything you know about tuning/cars and they can still blow up without experience... IT CAN BE DONE!!!! Yes we all know but, there is a difference in just knowing information and experience... Put it this way would you trust someone that just came out of medical school to perform a open heart surgery on you (god forbid) or would you rather someone that has done a few hundered of them sucsessfully??

The only difference from experience and inexperience is the knowledge of the experience. I just gave it to you. Experience is only one teacher, and it usually is very tough. Yes, some only learn through experience. But you don't have to.

I would rather have someone who understands the latest techniques and has a steady hand. I don't want a 80 year old who has done it 4000 times with parkinson's and never held more than a scalpal. Further, a motor tune is infinismally less complicated than open heart surgery.

 

[karl GSX]

That's y some people that have dsm's sould have a honda u dont have to know anything about a motor or tuning because they don't make any power any way

 

[98gsxtuner]

when you guys tune do you do it yourself or where normally does it when you go get it dynoed do they do it or what.

 

[karl GSX]

what ecu do u have

 

[smokeyjpn221]

the 4g63 is a strong motor but not that strong

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

To the OP, Yes.
Cast pistons are "weak" because they cant take knock and abuse like forged stuff can, but forged internals for 4-500hp is like race gas for a tune you could use pump for....there's no need.

Only advice i can give that hasnt been given already is keep an eye on timing too....cast pistons dont like low timing....i cant give a good explanation why but they dont. Just have a good tune and youll be golden.

 

[need2boostpsi]

its all in the tune, like said before cast pistons don't like knock. you could have 600whp on stock internals and run for years at 0 knock or you can have 200whp and 43 counts of knock and have a blown motor in about a day. Im running close to 450whp est on link, my bottom end has 110,000 miles on it and is 19 years old.

 

[jrohner]

I'd be more worried about the rods, or crank.

Um... the cranks are used in cars with over 1000hp.

 

[karl GSX]

i mike 450hp and beat the car up every day and its my every day driver and have been making 450 4 a year now 4G63 s r storg but it comes down 2 the tuning

 

[karl GSX]

i make 450hp and beat the car up every day and its my every day driver and have been making 450 for a year now. 4G63 s r storg but it comes down 2 the tuning

 

[4pistons]

Horsepower doesn't break pistons or rods so stating a number is pointless. The two major factors in piston or rod failure is over revving and excessive cylinder pressure. Over revving causes MAJOR stress on both no matter at 150 horsepower or 550 horsepower. If you can keep the revs within design limits your HP number is almost unlimited.

When cylinder pressure (not BOOST pressure - that's completely different!) spikes from detonation it causes 'hammer blows' that can break a cast piston easily. Adding nitrous oxide (NOS, or any other brand) also spikes cylinder pressures to levels cast pistons can't handle.

To increase horsepower you need to burn more fuel at given RPMs or efficiently burn the same fuel volume at higher RPMs, or both. Increasing fuel creates higher cylinder pressures. Increasing RPMs takes you closer to over revving.

You could build a 500 HP 4G63 that peaks at 6000 RPM, or one that makes 350 HP at 9000 RPM. Which one do you think will last longer??

Can you see where the horsepower number is meaningless?

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[donniekak]

I see a lot of people posting questions about the 1g 2g piston difference. Well i just measured them. The 2g pistons top ringland is 6.5mm from the top of the piston, and the 2nd ring land is 5mm from the top ringland. On the 6-bolt piston the top ringland is 8.5mm from the top of the piston, and the second ringland is 4mm from the top ringland. From those measurements i would say that the 6-bolt piston is stronger. I've seen many different cars break off the top ringland, but never the gap between the 1st and 2nd rings. The only benifit i see to putting the 2g pistons in a 1g is the raised compression.

 

[TalonTime]

I'm getting just a tad off the topic. What power are you guys seeing with a stock head? I have a built bottom end but the top is stock. I just made 470whp and im looking to push it to 5ish whp. I have Ross pistons and Crower Rods. And the only thing in the head are FP stage2 cams. I was told from my tuner that I can make 600whp with a tune on race gas. What do you guys think is safe to make? And also what are you guys revving at with a stock head. My rev limit is set at 8400 and thats running 30psi. I know thats to high I was thinking more along the lines of 7500 rpm. Also down the line when I buy a rebuilt head I will be putting in Crower valve springs and retainers.

 

[toofast82]

Stock heads are capable of flowing enough to make quite a bit of power. If you're revving above 7500rpm, you need some valvetrain upgrades like springs and retainers made to handle the high rpm

 

[dsm-onster]

I see a lot of people posting questions about the 1g 2g piston difference. Well i just measured them. The 2g pistons top ringland is 6.5mm from the top of the piston, and the 2nd ring land is 5mm from the top ringland. On the 6-bolt piston the top ringland is 8.5mm from the top of the piston, and the second ringland is 4mm from the top ringland. From those measurements i would say that the 6-bolt piston is stronger. I've seen many different cars break off the top ringland, but never the gap between the 1st and 2nd rings. The only benifit i see to putting the 2g pistons in a 1g is the raised compression.

I've cracked 8 1g pistons between the 1st and 2nd ringland . From the piston crown to the first ringland was fine in all cases.