Camshafts?

[mitsu29]

Ok as i was looking through the Cylinder Head Forum looking for advice on camshafts, actually not advice, a walkthrough on how they work, what they do etc.. when i noticed a topic that said " We need more Tech Articles" and man we do. Unfortunately i'm not the person to do that as i myself have a question about cams.

I have almost all the bolt-ons needed:

Buschur Racing Hi-Flow Catalytic Converter
Greddy SP Full Cat-Back Exhaust
Greddy TDO5H/18G Turbo Upgrade Kit
Greddy 24R FMIC
Greddy Turbo Timer
Greddy Type RS Blow off Valve
Greddy Upper IC Pipe Kit
Blitz BLM Boost Gauge
Injen Intake
ACT Streetlite Flywheel
ACT 2100 Clutch

So i was just wondering which cam gears/camshafts?? would be best to get. My car is a daily driver I heard the HKS Camgears were pretty good??

 

[Black_Bullet]

Thanks Dsm-onster this is all useful information that took awhile to soak in
but never the less it may help my final decision.
I am the type to only want to spend once and since theres no telling what decision could be made in the later future I guess it would make sense to gone and get the bigger cams and just use the cam gear to play around with the power band.
The fp2 mightve felt better on your car due to the 60-1 or even the 18g; a friends gsx w/ evo3 and fp2s was so linear that it just went fast but didnt have any violence to it like my car does now on stock cams... I am only on a e316g myself and chances are nil of me going 18g unless I found a insane deal otherwise for the money id just get a 20g as I like MHI quality or fp products.
Anyways I am awd so I am not so worried about breaking traction...
Actually if I break straight line awd traction I might smile because it means im making good torque.
I like the hard hitting feel, I could careless about how much faster I can go down the 1320 at this point as I know the car is already 120mph capable if I were to focas attention to that, but I planned more on autox which is another reason I am about quick spool, torquey hard hitting power band. I dont know how confident I am in trusting myself with playing with cam gears or timing belts ( Had a previous aggrivating timing belt install experience.) So far im still bought on just getting straight fp1s or trying this fp1, fp2 combo but there will be another 4 or 5 months before the cam order takes place so in the mean time there will be more thought in my final goal of the cars projected power and I will revisit this thread and other threads alike before I make my purchase.

 

[dsm-onster]

Thanks Dsm-onster this is all useful information that took awhile to soak in
but never the less it may help my final decision.
I am the type to only want to spend once and since theres no telling what decision could be made in the later future I guess it would make sense to gone and get the bigger cams and just use the cam gear to play around with the power band.
The fp2 mightve felt better on your car due to the 60-1 or even the 18g; a friends gsx w/ evo3 and fp2s was so linear that it just went fast but didnt have any violence to it like my car does now on stock cams... I am only on a e316g myself and chances are nil of me going 18g unless I found a insane deal otherwise for the money id just get a 20g as I like MHI quality or fp products.
Anyways I am awd so I am not so worried about breaking traction...
Actually if I break straight line awd traction I might smile because it means im making good torque.
I like the hard hitting feel, I could careless about how much faster I can go down the 1320 at this point as I know the car is already 120mph capable if I were to focas attention to that, but I planned more on autox which is another reason I am about quick spool, torquey hard hitting power band. I dont know how confident I am in trusting myself with playing with cam gears or timing belts ( Had a previous aggrivating timing belt install experience.) So far im still bought on just getting straight fp1s or trying this fp1, fp2 combo but there will be another 4 or 5 months before the cam order takes place so in the mean time there will be more thought in my final goal of the cars projected power and I will revisit this thread and other threads alike before I make my purchase.

Glad to help. The mention of the linear powerband was for the benefit of the original poster. Yea a hard hit puts a smile on anyone's face .

The 18g I had was identical to the evo3 16g except for the compresor wheel itself. An 18g doesn't ahve much more if any more up to than an evo3 16g w/ a restrictive evo3 16g turbine wheel and turbine housing. I think the turbine is restrictive for even an evo3 16g. SBR made very little more hp swapping from an evo3 16g to a tdo5h (unclipped) 20G. The turbine is just wound out completely by 400hp. The 18g felt better than the evo3 16g because of mildly retarding the FP2X exhaust cam slightly (to about the specs of FP3 cams). The power came on quicker and still held *decently* to redline. Something 264s and fp1s are known for w/ these smaller turbos (14b/16g/18g/20g).

but there will be another 4 or 5 months before the cam order takes place so in the mean time there will be more thought in my final goal of the cars projected power and I will revisit this thread and other threads alike before I make my purchase.

. . .very wise. You'll be happy because you know you've done the most research you can. And came to the best decision based on where you're at in the "learning curve".

 

[mitsu29]

Yes you can mix & match FP1's & FP2's (well atleast you could last time I checked) & they are both direct drop ins. If you don't plan on getting larger then the evoIII, & you don't have to worry about emissions, I would opt for the FP1/FP2 combo (1 intake, 2 exhaust). This seems to give good mid range gains but also gives abit more top end compared to the straight up FP1's.

I ran my FP1X cams with the evoIII & they made a tonn of power/torque in the 4000 to 5500 range & yes they hit nice & hard at spool up. These are more agressive then the std FP 1 cams & have the same lift as the FP2's but also have an increased ramp rate so you need aftermarket springs.

To the OP, being fwd, yes your right a 272 combo would be a better route to go as far as trying to prevent anymore traction loss. The HKS cams as well are just a drop in install. Like most of the other cams for our cars, if you want every single HP/Ftlb out of the cams, adjustable cams gears will get you this but for the typical gains you'd see in an average power street car, the gains aren't going to be worth the cost of the dyno time & gears. As for the 272's in general, you may lose abit say in the 3000-5000 range, then you will start to see where the cams shine over the factory units as you move up through the 5000's till redline.

Daren-P: Thank you, i liked how you answered both my question and that other person's question. Your response was VERY informative

DSM-Onster: Your response was also very informative, you and daren know your shit!!!

You two have solidified my decision to go with the HKS 272s( or FP2 equivalents, that im still deciding, but definetly going the '272 route). Also, i like the information you two gave me about the cam gears. Now i know that they are really not that neccessary due to the amount of 'work' to get them show you the power. BUT also now im a lot more informed about the camshaft and cam gear parts and how they work and intertwine with each other.

Now, i am getting cam gears and only because, when i buy all this stuff, i will not be putting them on until, i have all the right supporting parts, which then means i have to, at some point, hit the tuning shop, of which i found out about a good one from my friend who recently turboed and tuned his SR20 in that same shop and yes he does use DSMLink, so it would make sense to get the cam gear out of the way while im getting the car tuned anyways.

Anyways thanks all for the information you guys are what make this website such a pleasant and awesome place to get ALL my DSM needs

a lil FYI, my next and final mods should be;

Walbro 190 Fuel Pump (bought)
FIC 600-700CC Fuel Injectors
Aeromotive AFPR (bought )
Greddy FMIC 24r FMIC
Blitz BLM EGT Gauge (bought)
HKS Camshafts
X brand Cam Gears ( got to see which one, not sure which is a good one )
Greddy Manual Boost Controller or the Hallman Manual Boost Controller

and i think that would finish my car finally ? anywhoo, once i get those parts in, thats when i tow the car to the dyno!! wish me luck

 

[Black_Bullet]

Daren-P: Thank you, i liked how you answered both my question and that other person's question. Your response was VERY informative

DSM-Onster: Your response was also very informative, you and daren know your shit!!!

You two have solidified my decision to go with the HKS 272s( or FP2 equivalents, that im still deciding, but definetly going the '272 route). Also, i like the information you two gave me about the cam gears. Now i know that they are really not that neccessary due to the amount of 'work' to get them show you the power. BUT also now im a lot more informed about the camshaft and cam gear parts and how they work and intertwine with each other.

Now, i am getting cam gears and only because, when i buy all this stuff, i will not be putting them on until, i have all the right supporting parts, which then means i have to, at some point, hit the tuning shop, of which i found out about a good one from my friend who recently turboed and tuned his SR20 in that same shop and yes he does use DSMLink, so it would make sense to get the cam gear out of the way while im getting the car tuned anyways.

Anyways thanks all for the information you guys are what make this website such a pleasant and awesome place to get ALL my DSM needs

a lil FYI, my next and final mods should be;

Walbro 190 Fuel Pump (bought)
FIC 600-700CC Fuel Injectors
Aeromotive AFPR (bought )
Greddy FMIC 24r FMIC
Blitz BLM EGT Gauge (bought)
HKS Camshafts
X brand Cam Gears ( got to see which one, not sure which is a good one )
Greddy Manual Boost Controller or the Hallman Manual Boost Controller

and i think that would finish my car finally ? anywhoo, once i get those parts in, thats when i tow the car to the dyno!! wish me luck

Yea there are some very knowledgable helpful ppl on this site... More so than any other dsm site ive been a member on. Im surprised Dsmonster isnt a wise man yet looking at his member status...
Anyways unless theres something odd about your tune you technically dont have to change your tune to drop cams in. Your 100% right about waiting to do everything at once and going to the dyno to do everything. If your going to be tuning with dsmlink ( you said your friend has dsmlink for his sr20 240 ) or a chipped ecu and have means of controling fuel completely id go with larger injectors than 600-700cc especially since you can get your self a nice set of 850s from http://www.fuelinjectorclinic.com/cart/mitsubishi.htm for around 280 bucks. Just make sure you rewire that 190lph... Other than that Good luck on your project.

 

[mitsu29]

( you said your friend has dsmlink for his sr20 240 )

I meant say that the shop that my friend went to has tuned with DSMLink before sorry about that run on scrambled sentence. He has a turbo'd SR-20DE with the Apexi

 

[daren_p]

Jojo, looks like you will be/have DSMLink? If so figure out the largest size injector you ever think you'll need, then get two steps larger . It seems goals always change in the future & DSMLink can control most injectors (1000+ cc), like stock. Injectors are basically the same price as you go up in size, so might as well buy once. I thought 750's would be more then I ever needed, I've already seen 85%+ IDC before I was running meth & still see close to 80% IDC & not close to maxing the current setup out. I tell everyone, if your using DSMLink, go 850 min & personally I'd go 950 or 1000cc, just to be on the safe side.


As for just dropping in the cams & going, that usually isn't the case as far as the tune goes. If you have a poor tune, you'll probably get away with it but if you have a better/more aggressive tune, the increased cylinder pressure from the cams will more then likely cause some knock, so you will need to tweek your tune abit.

 

[mitsu29]

Jojo, looks like you will be/have DSMLink?

Of course i was gonna go with the Greddy E-Manage BUT this is one of those rare times where I 'budged' from what i wanted because the product offers MUCH more than what my beloved Greddy does, which i'm very cool with. Also i like that fact that with the DSMLink as time goes by and i learn the way it works i myself can 'tune' my car which i m all for

I thought 750's would be more then I ever needed,

I think the 750cc will meet my needs, i mean im not out to set any records or anything of the sort, im out to make some power, and i think the 750cc will more than get me there. In case your wondering here are my plans:

Buschur Racing 2.5" Downpipe
Buschur Racing Hi-Flow Catalytic Converter
Greddy SP Full Cat-Back Exhaust
Greddy TDO5H/18G Turbo Upgrade Kit
Greddy 24R FMIC
Greddy Turbo Timer
Greddy Type RS Blow off Valve
Greddy Upper IC Pipe Kit
Blitz BLM Boost Gauge
Injen Intake
ACT Streetlite Flywheel
ACT 2100 Clutch
Walbro 190LpH Fuel Pump
Aeromotive AFPR Kit
FIC 750cc Fuel Injectors
Blitz BLM EGT Gauge (bought)
HKS Camshafts
X brand Cam Gears ( got to see which one, not sure which is a good one )
Greddy Manual Boost Controller or the Hallman Manual Boost Controller

With all those mods im hoping to get to 300HP to the wheels hopefully my setup can achieve that

 

[daren_p]

Wow must be a big Greddy fan, Im sorry I can say the same (but thats another story ) Looks like your headed in the right direction & your 300whp goal should defently be achieveable with your mod list & a descent tune. Probably would hit that around the 20 psi mark on pump gas (or maybe slightly less boost, buddy with similar mod list made 303 whp @ 20 psi or slightly less & that was on an evoIII & without cams)

Couple things on your list, does your upper IC pipe have to be greddy? Dejontool & other companies make pipes & they may be cheeper then the greddy. Plus I believe the greddy is 2.25" & some of the other versions can probably be had in 2.5". Also does the Greddy come with a new throttlebody elbow, like some of the other kits do?

For the clutch I would recommend the CenterForce Dual Friction over the ACT 2100. RRE tested the pressure plate to 2500 lbs, combined with the segmented friction surface, it offers abit more holding power vs the 2100 & is just as easy if not easier on the thrust bearing. Pedal effort is pretty much like stock. This is what I run & as long as you break it in properly (some don't & have issues), its a great clutch. Has been holding up for 2 summers so far, with 300+ whp & a couple times at the track.

You don't need to get an aftermarket FPR with the 190 pump. If your set on getting an adjustable FPR, then may as well get the 255HP pump as they cost the same & you won't out grow it if your plans change.

The Greddy MBC is very expensive & doubt its better then any other MBC out there. I run a Joe P IL MBC. Its very small & inline, no tools to adjust it, holds boost like it should & was less then $50. (I origionally ran a Greddy EBC & since it spent more time getting repaired at the factory, then it did on my car, I bought the Joe P for backup. Well Im still running the Joe P & the Greddy EBC is long gone)

 

[Black_Bullet]

I think the 750cc will meet my needs, i mean im not out to set any records or anything of the sort, im out to make some power, and i think the 750cc will more than get me there. In case your wondering here are my plans:

Buschur Racing 2.5" Downpipe
Buschur Racing Hi-Flow Catalytic Converter
Greddy SP Full Cat-Back Exhaust
Greddy TDO5H/18G Turbo Upgrade Kit
Greddy 24R FMIC
Greddy Turbo Timer
Greddy Type RS Blow off Valve
Greddy Upper IC Pipe Kit
Blitz BLM Boost Gauge
Injen Intake
ACT Streetlite Flywheel
ACT 2100 Clutch
Walbro 190LpH Fuel Pump
Aeromotive AFPR Kit
FIC 750cc Fuel Injectors
Blitz BLM EGT Gauge (bought)
HKS Camshafts
X brand Cam Gears ( got to see which one, not sure which is a good one )
Greddy Manual Boost Controller or the Hallman Manual Boost Controller

With all those mods im hoping to get to 300HP to the wheels hopefully my setup can achieve that

Like Daren said 300 shouldnt be a problem... My opinion id get a walbro 255lph
( same theory stated as with going big the first time with the injectors, might as well for the fuel pump also.. ) I like the idea of over kill!!!! For example, I dont plan on going beyond a 50 trim/ 20g set up, which im sure i wont even leave my evo3 set up for at least another year and I opted for some 850cc FICs and I run 47.6 base fuel pressure.. Overkill...( Its all tuned in, it can help rid over run issues and increase your injector flow causing them to act like even bigger injectors. ) I dont recommend raising fuel pressure to everyone though btw...
I personally like the FP cams better than the HKS cams but there both tried and proven.
Cam gears arent needed unless your doing like Dsmonster was saying.
Personally i wouldnt waist time and money on a act 2100 and id go straight for the 2600... ( Back on the theory of leaving more room to grow.. ) The 2100 will slip on you when your pushing beyond 350 lbs/ft of torque and launching and road racing and etc.. ( somewhat depending on how much you let it cool and what disc you run... )
Greddy is ok, but i dont praise them as much but there turbo products are decent.
I wouldnt get a 18g unless you completely found one for cheap, id go straight to the tdoh6 20g if your staying MHI...

For the clutch I would recommend the CenterForce Dual Friction over the ACT 2100. RRE tested the pressure plate to 2500 lbs, combined with the segmented friction surface, it offers abit more holding power vs the 2100 & is just as easy if not easier on the thrust bearing. Pedal effort is pretty much like stock. This is what I run & as long as you break it in properly (some don't & have issues), its a great clutch. Has been holding up for 2 summers so far, with 300+ whp & a couple times at the track.

The Greddy MBC is very expensive & doubt its better then any other MBC out there. I run a Joe P IL MBC. Its very small & inline, no tools to adjust it, holds boost like it should & was less then $50. (I origionally ran a Greddy EBC & since it spent more time getting repaired at the factory, then it did on my car, I bought the Joe P for backup. Well Im still running the Joe P & the Greddy EBC is long gone)

I use the Joe p MBC also and it works great, i dont get any spike or anything.
I didnt have good experience with the Center force Dual friction clutch... That was my first clutch upgrade ever and perhaps I didnt break it in competely correct but I just didnt like the pedal pressure or feel or even like the way the car launched with it... I perfered the stiff act2600 over it with a street disc... I currently run a half kevlar/ceramic disc with southbend 2200 pressure plate and its perfect for my current set up, very streetable and can be launched repeatedly without slipping with my maxed out pump gas evo3 tune...

 

[daren_p]

Looks like the Greddy pipe kit doesn't come with a replacement TB elbow & they charge way to much for it. If it were me, I'd just pick up one of the pipe kits from punishment racing. Complete upper & lower pipes & onsale for $119 this week!

http://www.punishment-racing.com/intercoolerpiping.html


Do you already have your heart set on that turbo as well? I'm sure being a Greddy kit, they'll charge way to much for it?

One other thing that comes to mind, what are you planning to run for your intercooler setup? If you plan on going with a FMIC, alot of them (well the better designed ones) are short route & come with their own pipes, so buying a stock route upper IC pipe is kinda a waste of money. The kits that do use the stock pipe route, such as the Greddy FMIC kit, aren't the best choice. If you do go FMIC defently don't buy the Greddy kit, it is WAY over priced & there are MUCH better options out there nowadays (the kit was fine 10 years ago, but alot has changed) & for alot less money.

 

[mitsu29]

One other thing that comes to mind, what are you planning to run for your intercooler setup? If you plan on going with a FMIC, alot of them (well the better designed ones) are short route & come with their own pipes, so buying a stock route upper IC pipe is kinda a waste of money. The kits that do use the stock pipe route, such as the Greddy FMIC kit, aren't the best choice. If you do go FMIC defently don't buy the Greddy kit, it is WAY over priced & there are MUCH better options out there nowadays (the kit was fine 10 years ago, but alot has changed) & for alot less money.

Normally i would agree, but my bro gets a 30-40% discount at our local performance parts store ( which happen to order from OptionsAUto as well ) and i already got most of the parts on that list i listed, its mainly the fuel system that i need now. ALso i got my Greddy turbo for $1600 and it came with the Upper IC piping so i jumped on that deal.

As for the clutch, ive heard good things from the Centerforce clutches, but ACT is located right here in Lancaster, and my friend works there so i can get the ACT for a pretty good price. I've been lucky so far in terms of parts, but its funny, all the "expensive" parts i ve bought for like less than half their price BUT ive been shafted on A LOT of the 'smaller, inexpensive' parts but they add up like, Prothane Motor Mounts/Fuel Rails/EGT-Boost Gauges/etc i ve had to pay FULL price plus shipping and these are the parts that have ended up hurting my wallet the most funny how the universe works sometimes

Really the intercooler is the only thing that i wouldn't want to go with Greddy with, because i know there are cheaper better alternatives, it just sucks id have to reroute the piping as i already have the upper intercooler pipes to match the greddy kit.

Also as a side note, i dont really know why im so enamoured with Greddy, i mean i guess its because i had such a good experience with them with my exhaust system, which was my first mod that i like them so much. I get compliments all the time about how my car 'sounds'. I guess first impressions really do last and affect how you think of something/someone

ALso yeah i m torn between the Hallman Pro MBC and the Greddy. If my bro's discount can get the Greddy one down to the Hallmans price then yeah id get that one, if not then Hallman all the way Ive heard good things about the Joe one too, so id probably look into that one as well thanks for the feedback all

 

[Black_Bullet]

coming back to this thread as I had a question on cams.
I was told by a wiseman on a local Tampa site ( Tom he has a Vr4, I believe hes the one that had like 400whp on a evo3.) ANyways that doesnt matter but what does is that he thinks you could run Fp1x cams on stock head. I told him that my redline is set at 8k and the engine wont ever see more than that and if running fp1x to 8k for any negligable amount of time would pose a problem on stock head and he said he thinks id be ok to do that. Im not going to just jump and get fp1x and valve float my engine due to someones thoughts and opinions even if they are correct which i have no reason to not believe his information he is very knowledgeable in the dsm world, I know there are ppl who've taken 8.5-9 k on stock head with regular fp1s and 272s including the guy who gave me the idea of fp1x's on stock head. Maybe it would be risky even if it did work but was hopeing anyone else could chime in on that notion ?

 

[meliketoball]

Try out Brian Crower. HKS is like 300 for one side whereas BC is 300 for exhaust and intake. Check out this vid of the 272: http://youtube.com/watch?v=S3rM0IZe3hM&mode=related&search=
mmmmmmonterkilll.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Thanks but i want information on running Fp1x cams on a stock head....
Any takes on that question? Daren P you run fp1x correct?
Perhaps Im going to contact Robert at Fp i suppose.

 

[daren_p]

Jay, you are correct that lots have run both the standard FP1's & 2's past the stock redline, on a stock top end without any issues. I wouldn't have any problem recommending this setup to anyone (unless of course it's a high milage top end, which I would recommend freshening up first) but not to sure about the X series. The faster ramp rate is the issue here & not to sure how stock springs will hold up. I had heard from another owner of the 1X cams that Robert told him stock springs (of course lower milage/good condition) are okay if you don't plan to rev past the stock 7500 redline but if you do, an aftermarket set of springs is required. Personally, I wouldn't take the chance, a set of aftermarket springs & retainers are so cheep now that its worth the extra insurance & it works out being a lot cheeper in the long run if you do happen to float a valve. I do know that Robert recommended to shim the valve springs (no matter which aftermarket single) for the 1x cams just for that bit extra pressure, think he recommended like .030"

 

[Black_Bullet]

Jay, you are correct that lots have run both the standard FP1's & 2's past the stock redline, on a stock top end without any issues. I wouldn't have any problem recommending this setup to anyone (unless of course it's a high milage top end, which I would recommend freshening up first) but not to sure about the X series. The faster ramp rate is the issue here & not to sure how stock springs will hold up. I had heard from another owner of the 1X cams that Robert told him stock springs (of course lower milage/good condition) are okay if you don't plan to rev past the stock 7500 redline but if you do, an aftermarket set of springs is required. Personally, I wouldn't take the chance, a set of aftermarket springs & retainers are so cheep now that its worth the extra insurance & it works out being a lot cheeper in the long run if you do happen to float a valve. I do know that Robert recommended to shim the valve springs (no matter which aftermarket single) for the 1x cams just for that bit extra pressure, think he recommended like .030"

Do you feel like getting the fp1x would be worth the trouble of upgrading in the head.
From your own words, what exactly are the distinct benefits of having the Fp "X" ramp rate. My head was rebuilt about 12k ago with 3rd revision lifters and minor valve bowl porting but thats all...

 

[daren_p]

Do you feel like getting the fp1x would be worth the trouble of upgrading in the head.
From your own words, what exactly are the distinct benefits of having the Fp "X" ramp rate. My head was rebuilt about 12k ago with 3rd revision lifters and minor valve bowl porting but thats all...

While I do think these cams do a really good job of what they are supposed to do, are they worth the extra vs the standard FP1 cams?, that I'm not sure of as I've never run the std. 1's to compare. I can say these cams create a tonn of extra cylinder pressure & I'd say a good amount more then your standard FP1 or 264 upgrade, which is why these are more likely to knock. But more cylinder pressure means more power, so this is a good thing. Personally if you are going to run straight pump gas, I probably wouldn't recommend these as like I said create so much additional cylinder pressure. When I ran straight pump I wasn't all that happy as I had to reduce the boost about 3 psi & pull up to 4 deg timing to keep knock under control. Now if you add something like meth injection or race gas in the mix, I would say these are a great cam. I now run meth injection & even with a small M5 nozzle I've been able to up the boost back & add most of the timing back in.

Basically if you want a cam that works well on straight pump, I'd go with the standard FP1 route. Now if your looking for a cam that creates even more power gains, & plan on running meth or race gas, then I would recommend the 1X's. I normally run 22psi on the street, but just found out this past weekend at the track, my car pulls like a freight train with a little Octane booster added to run 25-26 psi

 

[Black_Bullet]

While I do think these cams do a really good job of what they are supposed to do, are they worth the extra vs the standard FP1 cams?, that I'm not sure of as I've never run the std. 1's to compare. I can say these cams create a tonn of extra cylinder pressure & I'd say a good amount more then your standard FP1 or 264 upgrade, which is why these are more likely to knock. But more cylinder pressure means more power, so this is a good thing. Personally if you are going to run straight pump gas, I probably wouldn't recommend these as like I said create so much additional cylinder pressure. When I ran straight pump I wasn't all that happy as I had to reduce the boost about 3 psi & pull up to 4 deg timing to keep knock under control. Now if you add something like meth injection or race gas in the mix, I would say these are a great cam. I now run meth injection & even with a small M5 nozzle I've been able to up the boost back & add most of the timing back in.

Basically if you want a cam that works well on straight pump, I'd go with the standard FP1 route. Now if your looking for a cam that creates even more power gains, & plan on running meth or race gas, then I would recommend the 1X's. I normally run 22psi on the street, but just found out this past weekend at the track, my car pulls like a freight train with a little Octane booster added to run 25-26 psi

Im sure any dsm with a decent tune; cams, supporting mods and a 50trim on the engine would pull like a freight train at 26psi Didnt think that octane stuff worked enough to make a significant difference.
But i understand what you mean about having more cylinder pressure i suppose since its opening and closing at a such faster rate there more going into it per revolution of the cam
Im not going to make this a race gas car, if i were going to run enough boost/timing or get cams that required race gas to really have fun with them id just gone and get fp2x and probably have a BB fp3052 on the car or something in that case but since im not looking to go that far then ill take your advice on just sticking with the regular fp1s.
Im sure the std fp1s with my evo3 set up should still do plenty fine, ive also heard fp1s are better than the 264/272 combo on a 16g car... Thanks for the response ive learned a little here...

 

[daren_p]

Im sure any dsm with a decent tune; cams, supporting mods and a 50trim on the engine would pull like a freight train at 26psi Didnt think that octane stuff worked enough to make a significant difference.
But i understand what you mean about having more cylinder pressure i suppose since its opening and closing at a such faster rate there more going into it per revolution of the cam
Im not going to make this a race gas car, if i were going to run enough boost/timing or get cams that required race gas to really have fun with them id just gone and get fp2x and probably have a BB fp3052 on the car or something in that case but since im not looking to go that far then ill take your advice on just sticking with the regular fp1s.
Im sure the std fp1s with my evo3 set up should still do plenty fine, ive also heard fp1s are better than the 264/272 combo on a 16g car... Thanks for the response ive learned a little here...

You are correct, most octane booster is useless. Most claim to add say 10 octane points but what they don't tell you is 10 octane point is equal to 1 octane, so you've just spent the money to up your 94 octane to 95. The stuff I use from time to time is by NOS & is their offroad racing formula. It actually adds up to 60 octane point or 6 octane, so it actually does make a noticeable difference & allows a few more psi or more timing, etc. It is one of the more expensive ones at $15 a bottle (CDN)

Do you ever plan on meth injection? If so, then yes these cams work great with meth. If not, then your right stick to the std version. As for the FP1's vs the HKS 264/272 I believe the FP's offer more lift then the HKS cams. So as for performance the FP's will net you more gains in the 4000-5500 range, while the 264/272 combo will make less power in this area. Now even though they have less lift, the 264/272 combo may make abit more power in the 5500-6500 range. Depending on where you want the power band, you can always go a FP1/FP2 combo. Which should lose abit on the lower end rpms vs the FP1's but will gain abit more in the mid/high end, though not as much top end as straight up FP2's.

 

[spooln4fun]

Just subscribing, this is a very informative thread. THanks to mitsu29 for starting this as i was thinking of this myself yesterday. Glad this was started

 

[Black_Bullet]

You are correct, most octane booster is useless. Most claim to add say 10 octane points but what they don't tell you is 10 octane point is equal to 1 octane, so you've just spent the money to up your 94 octane to 95. The stuff I use from time to time is by NOS & is their offroad racing formula. It actually adds up to 60 octane point or 6 octane, so it actually does make a noticeable difference & allows a few more psi or more timing, etc. It is one of the more expensive ones at $15 a bottle (CDN)

Do you ever plan on meth injection? If so, then yes these cams work great with meth. If not, then your right stick to the std version. As for the FP1's vs the HKS 264/272 I believe the FP's offer more lift then the HKS cams. So as for performance the FP's will net you more gains in the 4000-5500 range, while the 264/272 combo will make less power in this area. Now even though they have less lift, the 264/272 combo may make abit more power in the 5500-6500 range. Depending on where you want the power band, you can always go a FP1/FP2 combo. Which should lose abit on the lower end rpms vs the FP1's but will gain abit more in the mid/high end, though not as much top end as straight up FP2's.

True, well guess now all there is to decied is if im going for straight fp1s or fp1/fp2 combo.

 

[mitsu29]

Just subscribing, this is a very informative thread. THanks to mitsu29 for starting this as i was thinking of this myself yesterday. Glad this was started

Cool thanks, glad this thread turned into a very informative one

Also, i mistyped one of my mods, i do have the Walbro 255LpH Fuel Pump, i confused myself because i was only gonna get the 190 for so long it got stuck in my head

 

[mitsu29]

Oh yeah, does anyone know where i can buy some new "side door side skirts" the ones that go on the actual doors? i would go to mitsubishi but im dont want to get raped for just sideskirts.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Cam Specs & Effects
Understanding cam specs and their affects will help you select the best cam for your specific engine. The four important camshaft specs to understand are duration, centerline, separation and lift.
DURATION
Duration refers to how long a valve is opened in relation to crankshaft rotation. This open valve time period is expressed in degrees of crankshaft rotation. So, a cam specification of 220 degrees duration simply means the cam holds the valve open for 22 0 degrees of crankshaft rotation.
As strange as this may sounds, more duration can be helpful in high RPM engines but not low RPM engines. The extra degrees of open valve time in high RPM engines gives the air flow a little more time to get into (or out of) the cylinder in spite of the pi ston's stroke. However, at lower RPMs, more duration can cause less power because the valves will be open at the wrong time in relation to the piston's stroke up or down in the cylinder.
CENTERLINE
The cam's centerline specification is used to tie the valve timing to the crankshaft's rotation. This spec is expressed as the number of degrees the crankshaft must rotate from top dead center until the cam has rotated to the peak (or centerline) of the lobe.
The centerline spec and the duration spec can be used to calculate when the valves open and close in relation to the crankshaft's rotation. When the valves open (or close) relative to the crankshaft's rotation is known as valve events or valve timing. Some cam manufacturers will provide valve event information and others only p rovide duration and centerline information. If your cam manufacturer doesn't provide valve event information, a software program such as Cam Shop can calculate this info for you.
Understanding the effects of valve events or valve timing is the real secret to understanding engine performance. For the engine to run at its peak performance, the valves must open and close at the correct time in relation to the piston's position and the crankshaft's speed. For more information on this subject see the Valve Timing & Performance page.
LIFT
The final cam spec to understand is lift. While duration refers to how long the valve is opened, cam lift is used to determine how wide the valve is opened.
If the valves are not opened wide enough, they will cause a restriction for the air trying to enter or exit the cylinder. However, opening the valve past a certain point will not increase the flow to (or from) the cylinder. A good way to demonstrate this is with the garden hose in your back yard. When you first start to turn the water on, the flow increases but after a turn or so, opening the valve more has no effect on how fast the water comes out of the hose.
It is necessary to understand a large amount of science to understand how the flow is related to how wide the valve is opened and how this affects the engine's power. However, the simplest and easiest way to see how the lift affects engine power is with a software program like Engine Shop or Engine Analyzer.
Valve Timing & Performance
If racing is your thing, or you are an automotive hobbyist, then you are most likely not afraid of swapping cams in your engine. However, the trick to making your car faster is not just replacing the cam, but replacing it with the "right" camshaft. This is where your understanding of valve timing becomes crucial in selecting the proper cam. To help you better understand valve timing, this page will cov er blow down overlap and the ram effect.
BLOW DOWN
On the power stroke, the combustion pushes the piston down in the cylinder. During this stroke, it is necessary to open the exhaust valve before the piston gets to the bottom of the cylinder. This will allow the excess pressure in the cylinder to "vent out" just before the piston reaches the bottom of the stroke. The term "Blow Down" is used to describe this event.
Timing the exhaust valve in this manner assures no pressure is left in the cylinder to push against the piston on the exhaust stroke. Otherwise, there could be 20 PSI (or so) pushing against the piston as it starts up the cylinder. This would require some of your engine's power just to push the exhaust out of the cylinder!
High RPM engines need to have the exhaust valve open sooner so the pressure has a better chance to exit the cylinder. However, at lower RPMs, opening the exhaust valve too soon means you didn't take full advantage of the power stroke. The Engine Analyzer Pro software is a good program to use for experimenting with blow down because you can quickly try different valve timing and see the cylinder pressure on your computer screen.
OVERLAP
As the engine cycles, there is a period when both the intake and exhaust valves are open at the same time. This valve timing is known as "overlap." Think of this as the exhaust and intake cycles overlapping each other.
The valves are timed so the intake valve opens slightly before the piston reaches top dead center (TDC) on the exhaust stroke. Likewise, the exhaust valve is timed to close just after the piston starts down on the intake stroke.
The objective of overlap is for the exhaust gas which is already running down the exhaust pipe, to create an effect like a siphon and pull a fresh mixture into the combustion chamber. Otherwise, a small amount of burned gasses would remain in the combustion chamber and dilute the incoming mixture on the intake stroke. This valve timing is a product of the cam's duration and separation specs. For more information on these cam specs see the Cam Specs & Effects page.
The science involved with overlap is quite complex. Pressures, runner lengths, temperature, and many other aspects influence how well the overlap effect works. The advantage to using software like Engine Analyzer Pro is that the software does all of the calculations for you. Simply enter a different duration and separation in the computer and the software will show you whether or not to expect more power from your engine.
RAM EFFECT
When the piston reaches the bottom of the cylinder on the intake stroke, the intake valve doesn't immediately close at this point. The intake valve remains open even though the piston is starting up the cylinder on the compression stroke. The expression "ram effect" is used to describe this event.
Timing the intake valve in this manner allows an additional amount of fresh mixture to be rammed into the cylinder. The effect is very similar to water hammer in plumbing. What happens is that during the intake stroke the fresh mixture is running fast enough down the intake manifold and into the cylinder that it can not instantly stop when the piston stops at the bottom of the intake stroke. Just like the water hammer effect, the incoming mixture is rammed into the cylinder even though the piston may be starting up on the compression stroke.
High RPM engines can have the intake valve remain open longer to take advantage of this ram effect. However, at low RPMs, the ram effect is not strong enough and the piston will start to push the fresh mixture back out of the cylinder. Of all the different valve timing effects, this one can have the greatest impact on your engine's performance. By advancing or retarding the cam or trying a different camshaft in the Engine Shop stroke up or down in the cylinder.

 

[dsm-onster]

Great thorough post, laserspeeddemon!