1G Camshaft Timing marks not lining up

[K4g63W]

So I took my Talon to a shop to get the timing belt replaced. After I left the idle was really choppy, almost sounded like aftermarket cams. My vacuum is also lower than it was before. I'm still a noob so I searched when i got it home and found that i can check the timing marks. I cranked the engine by hand and found that with the dowel pins lined up at 12 o' clock that the camshaft timing marks don't line up. I read that you might need to turn it six times before the markings line up. I'm not sure if that's just for lining it up when putting the belt on or what? Mine seem to be off by 2 teeth. The teeth never seem to line up even after rotating it fully 6 times.
I don't want to take it back to the shop because they already replaced the timing belt tensioner after I took it back the first time because it was making a weird sound after they installed the new belt. We went round and round about how it sounded fine to them. They seem really hesitant to admit any wrongdoing no matter what the problem is.
I just need verification that the teeth are off. I'd rather redo it myself and make sure the timing marks are all lined up so if anyone would be willing to lend a hand and show me what needs to be done i'd much appreciate it. I'm terrified that ill destroy my engine. I'd be happy to buy a case of beer and food. I live in Centennial Colorado. Thanks!

 

[KuckFatrina]

Those are way off! They probably didn't account for the exhaust cam rotating counter clockwise or messed up somewhere else along the line with the tensioner pulley. Download a service manual and follow it to the T and you will be golden. The vfaq also helps.

http://vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html

 

[My1GLaser]

Where is your crank timing mark at? Line it up to TDC first, then check your cam timing.

Turning it 6 times is just so that all the marks including oil pump line up.

I wouldn't take it back to that shop again either. It's an easy job and can be catastrophic when someone messes it up!

 

[Derail20T]

I agree with My1glaser, I don't think that I'd want that shop working on my car anymore, however they should fix it. You already paid for the service and it wasn't done properly, so you should either get your money back or they should fix it. I would bring it back there just to show them how far off the marks are off and take it from there.

 

[SrKegler]

I would have to see the crank mark. Cams will line up with just a slight turn. Exhaust will move down, intake will move up. Looks like they will be perfect.

 

[fredyvalles1995]

Take it back make them fix it or get your money back and take it to someone that really knows its doing.

 

[DSM1G90]

If you got the paperwork, take it to small claims court since they fubared the timing real bad.

Not every shop knows how to do 4G63 belts and similar - even the dealership service area gets the 4G63 confused with the 420A setup...

 

[K4g63W]

Ok, I'm a little confused. Ideally if I line up the crank with It's marks shouldn't both dowel pins be at 12 o' clock? It doesn't really look like it but the intake side is at 12 o' clock. Is it possible to see the timing marks without removing the lower T-belt cover? Like through the inner fender hole? I looked and I didn't think I could see them last time. I'll check again though. Thanks for all the replies and help

 

[TurboLaserRS]

You can't see the lower timing marks without removing the cover. If one cams dowel is at 12 and the other isn't, that's a problem. It looks like they are set 3 or so teeth off. To correct their timing you actually have to turn the cams toward eachother a bit past where they line up so that when the belt is on and you let go of them they 'relax' into the correct position of being lined up. (Sorry it's super late, I'm grasping for words atm.) I hope that makes sense to you.

 

[DSM1G90]

This is why we use clips to lock the belt on the cam sprockets since one will roll slightly forward and we need to get that one sprocket rolled back to mark before we put the belt over the sprockets to hold the two marks on the sprockets across from one another. When we get that far, we use clips, zip-ties, or similar to hold the belt in place over the sprockets. THEN, is when we tackle the rest of the belt layout.

The cam sprockets have a groove that one groove will face the other when the dowel pins are at the "12:00" position.

In the first pict, it's plain to see that the EXH cam is not aligned with the INT cam .. if one can see, this is a classic example of the EXH cam was not rolled back to meet the marks prior to laying the belt over the two sprockets...and why the usage of the two 17mm wrenches to hold the sprockets in place with the alignment grooves prior to laying the belt over the sprockets

Ya, you need to get the crank mark all aligned up exactly - no slight deviation - has to be exact.

DSM