Build Your Own Koni Coilovers

[jtmcinder]

Pay attention to that last sentence. As it is impossible for him to ever admit that anything I ever did has any value, he has to squeeze in a little dig.

Your search skills need work. Or maybe you only see what you want to. Here's a few examples.

One other point to make here for completeness. As much as I like the GC sleeves that you can get for Konis, do not under any circumstances use those little black upper shock bushings that they include with their upper plate. Those things are small and rock-hard and will bend your shock shaft faster than you can say "I should have listened to Dennis for once." I lost a Koni to those before switching to RRE pillowballs.

I don't know of any vendor who will assemble a Koni/GC/HyperCo system for you; not even RRE ever did this. Dennis Grant used to do it and he was on here the other day, so maybe he could be talked into doing it again. He can probably source pillowballs, too, plus he'd use 2.25" springs and Koni sleeves, instead of 2.5" springs and GC sleeves, which is slightly better, due to lower weight. More generally - and people who have been around a while better sit down for this - if anyone would put this system together right, it would be Dennis. Why doesn't someone (other than me; see previous dashed-out comment) ask him?

Yep. The place inside the sleeve that sits on the ring on the shock is in difference locations for GC vs Koni sleeves. If you go the GC route, as I did, no machining of the shock body is required. Also, you can get hats for 2.5" springs that fit the shaft of a Koni from a couple of place (or, at least you could several years ago), including RRE, so the 2.5" option is pretty much the same in ease of gathering the required parts to build the coilover. I didn't even consider 2.25" springs when I built mine, but only because I didn't even think of this option. That's the only difference between a "Cinder" set-up and a "DG50" set-up. In retrospect, I'd say that Dennis' way is better, but if you tell him that, I'll claim that someone hacked my account and created this post.

You get the idea. In contrast, I've never seen you admit anything in return or admit an error. I guess that must be because you're perfect, eh?

Oh, and with regard to your stand-offs. That's not a shortened Koni, is it? In any event, if you shorten your upper arms, as I did, which is a very good way to add camber and sharpen the bump-camber curve, then you'll have more travel before the upper arm hits, so you'll need more room above the shock, especially if you're not a total pinhead and run no bumpstop. You have tried shortened upper arms, yes?

 

[DG-FNR]

DG, where do you recommend we buy the pillowball mounts and remaining parts to piece together this set up? I have a new set of Koni's sitting in my garage.

Per the web page, Magnus, or have a local machine shop make them according to the drawings provided.

BTW, those aren't "pillowballs", they are "spherical bearing housings". A "pillowball" is a ball bearing designed to support a rotating shaft, commonly used in farming or HVAC applications where a shaft is driven by an electric motor with or without V-belts. Not the same thing at all.

Those shocks in the picture are not shortened, as clearly there is no need.

Similarily, there is no need to increase an overly steep bump camber curve by shortening an already too short upper control arm. If you keep the ride height reasonable (which you have to do with wide tires anyway) you can stay in the happy part of the camber curve, but lower too much - or do something asinine like shorten the UCA - and you quickly get to a part of the curve where the rapid change in camber angle makes for a very unhappy contact patch.

Ideally the UCA would be much longer - like a Corvette - but there's no room to package it. Mitsu resorted to the virtual ball joint design to get decent steering characteristics in such a confined space.

Caveat "wiseman"!

DG

 

[jtmcinder]

Those shocks in the picture are not shortened, as clearly there is no need.

You're not *that* silly, are you?

I don't mind the back-and-forth, but let's be halfway intelligent, eh?

 

[ViciousLord]

Per the web page, Magnus, or have a local machine shop make them according to the drawings provided.

Funny you mention that, I did. They showed no interest in making them. "We haven't made those in years" said one guy, maybe they assumed I was just another broke DSMer.

BTW, those aren't "pillowballs", they are "spherical bearing housings". A "pillowball" is a ball bearing designed to support a rotating shaft, commonly used in farming or HVAC applications where a shaft is driven by an electric motor with or without V-belts. Not the same thing at all.

Thanks for the lesson. I'll make sure to study a little more. But you should really work on your delivery.

 

[jtmcinder]

People have been trying for many years to get Dennis to lighten up on this sort of thing, to no avail. For example:

Everybody calls them pillowballs, accept it, move on

You just have to roll with it, as it were. When he's not annoyed (and not talking about transmissibility), it's good stuff.

 

[DG-FNR]

Funny you mention that, I did. They showed no interest in making them. "We haven't made those in years" said one guy, maybe they assumed I was just another broke DSMer.

Over the years, many people have inquired about these parts, but - much like when I was making them - nobody ever buys. So they don't exactly fall over themselves with glee when somebody calls.

It is hard to commit to buying material and scheduling machine time when the customer always bails.

If you are really serious, ask to speak to Marco, and convince him.

Thanks for the lesson. I'll make sure to study a little more. But you should really work on your delivery

Uh, ok. You're awfully quick to call me a dick (I saw the original post prior to the ninja edit) when I am only trying to help you... If you go to a bearing place and start talking "pillowball" you won't get what you want. There was no hostility or sarcasm there dude.

Wow. I give this design away, give people a complete list of what they need to build this, and still I get grief.

DG

 

[jtmcinder]

Wow. I give this design away, give people a complete list of what they need to build this, and still I get grief.

Does this mean that you have decided to relax your rule that only Magnus is allowed to use your design?

[cue huddled masses cheering wildly]

tee hee

 

[PieEyedPiper]

It is interesting to me that Dennis is so against shortening the UCA. The notion that such rapid changes could hurt contact patch seems valid, but I wasn't under the impression that the curve was already too steep.

Separately, I'm not sure if even the most generous souls are granted a life without grief.

 

[T2Small]

For me the increase in static camber outweighed the camber change issue. Static camber is now close to 2.5 degrees. However this was "seats of the pants" comparison which can be highly unreliable. "Seat of the pants" impression was noticeably more front end grip. It's possible that this grip was at the expense of grip in other critical cases or simply that turn-in improved but ultimate grip isn't as good.

DGs comments make me want to take a second look and actually test. I can't drop the car any more or I will run out of travel for the exceptionally bumpy courses I run.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Dennis, do you have a plot of the 2g's bump-camber curve?
I think it would be great information for everyone, especially for those like myself - guessing around with regards to what the curve actually resembles.

 

[T2Small]

Dennis, do you have a plot of the 2g's bump-camber curve?

It should be very easy to calculate knowing both the length and positions of both arms.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

It should be very easy to calculate knowing both the length and positions of both arms.

Agreed, but if Dennis already has the plot then all the better.