Build Your Own Koni Coilovers

[daren_p]

I recently came across this setup & was thinking it may be a worthwhile upgrade vs your typical Koni/GC setup. I talking with a local machinest to see about getting the parts made up but I'm wondering if others have already had this done? If so what was the ballpark costs & do you have any good sources for some of the individual required components?

 

[this_tsi_8urV8]

I am pretty sure these work. From the research I've done, but RRE takes a long time getting these to you.
RRE's Eclipse New Products

 

[DG-FNR]

Hey guys,

If you are planning on building a set of these, or if you just think that it was cool of me to make this public, I'd appreciate a visit here: here

2 of the soldiers in my regiment have come down with MS, and I do a charity bike ride to raise money to fight this horrible disease. These are two of the best soldiers I have ever known, and they didn't deserve what has happened to them. Help me fight it by donating what you can.

Thanks,

DG

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

I am bumping this because I have a few questions...and this is really good information.

Has anyone figured out DG's suspension calculator? Like measured what a relatively stock dsm's unsprung weights, motions ratios..etc etc. I want to buy springs but I dont want to waste money buying wrong spring rates. Unfortunately I dont have the time to take my car down and do all this stuff until the summer but I want to prepare the car for tracking this summer.

I researched a bit and found Thomas Dorris's setup was 600 front/300 rear on his vehicle with Dennis Grant's setup that was built by ATI/Dennis Grant. I might have to ask Thomas if this was with a rear upgraded sway bar or stock bar and what tire setup he was getting the suspension made up for.

Dennis Grant also mentioned you can use Ground Control Sleeves instead of konis sleeves. So should I still get the konis grooved? or used the Ground Control setup Konis groove? Is there any negative sideeffect to using ground control sleeves instead of koni sleeves? Are they any different?

 

[maximumbob]

Ground control sleeves are 2.5" springs vs 2.25" springs on the koni sleeves. So technically ground control would be heavier. I do not know how much though.

As far as the snap ring groove, my local machine shop wanted a ton of money to machine new ones. I ordered 7" springs from gc for the rear when I purchased them. Regularly shipped are 8" springs. You just need to specify when ordering the sleeves. Also I specified stiffer spring rates. They did not charge extra for this.

 

[Dallas J]

Also, part of the upper hat set up is the upper spring perch. DG gives the number for the 2.25" perch/threaded collar but theirs also a 2.5" perch.

I dont know if you can just get the perch by itself without the collar. Im just making my own set so I havent bothered looking into it.

For spring rate, what do you want to do? Autocross or road race? Id stick with his rates if you're planning on running 245s. If your going to upgrade to 275 or 285s then go 700+.

What will be perfect for you? I have no clue. Ive been working on getting my car right for years...still not there, but getting close.

 

[snowborder714]

I noticed on DG's page that he doesn't include bump stops in the parts list, but I'm assuming they are a separate part (not included with anything else on the list). Am I correct that I'll need to purchase bump stops as a separate item?

If so, does anyone have any insight on how to purchase them?

Here's the Koni page for bump stops.
Koni Racing - ITT

 

[talontsi18]

I would like to adapt DG's idea to my 1g eclipse. How different are the upper mounts in 2g compared to a 1g, what would need to be modified? Any ideas that anyone has would be appreicated.

 

[604CruisinCroat]

I would like to adapt DG's idea to my 1g eclipse. How different are the upper mounts in 2g compared to a 1g, what would need to be modified? Any ideas that anyone has would be appreicated.

I second this.

 

[daren_p]

I noticed on DG's page that he doesn't include bump stops in the parts list, but I'm assuming they are a separate part (not included with anything else on the list). Am I correct that I'll need to purchase bump stops as a separate item?

If so, does anyone have any insight on how to purchase them?

Here's the Koni page for bump stops.
Koni Racing - ITT

What Brian, you don't believe me No, they don't come with anything else, yes you have to order them seperate

I would like to adapt DG's idea to my 1g eclipse. How different are the upper mounts in 2g compared to a 1g, what would need to be modified? Any ideas that anyone has would be appreicated.

I haven't really studied the 1g suspension setup but as far as I know its a completely different style vs the 2g? If so, I'm sure you can sorta copy this design but would there actually be any benefit in doing so, doesn't seem like it?

 

[snowborder714]

What Brian, you don't believe me No, they don't come with anything else, yes you have to order them seperate

I do believe you

I was also using the post to figure out how to purchase bump stops. The people at Koni NA are ticking me off. I have tried calling numerous times and never get an answer. The few times I've got a answering machine and left a message, I haven't gotten a call back.

 

[ACM]

I would like to adapt DG's idea to my 1g eclipse. How different are the upper mounts in 2g compared to a 1g, what would need to be modified? Any ideas that anyone has would be appreicated.

1G & 2G mounts are not the same, however more importantly, the 2G upper mount simply holds the shock in place and serves no other function, whereas the 1G upper mount also determines suspension geometry. If going to the trouble of replacing a 1G upper mount it would be rather short-sighted not to include that adjustability.

Upper mounts for a 1G should look like this :
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/parts/camber_plates/1gco-set.jpg

or this :
Ground Control - Camber/Caster Plate, 89-94 Eclipse/Talon/ NOT GALANT (Pair)

 

[RiGs2G]

Maybe this doesnt belong here, if so I apologize.
I already have the tokico Illuminas with the eibach pro kit and I have been reading through this thread and others to try to build my own coilover kit as well. Could I buy a cheap ebay kit just for the sleeves and then buy hypercoil springs (choosing the spring rates I want) and make it work with my illuminas? You can get a cheap coilover sleeve kit for $38 shipped, that comes with the upper mounts and the sleeves, then Id swap in the hypercoils and have a pretty good set up, I would think, to use with my adjustable illuminas. Thanks for the help, Im looking forward to really get into road racing and autocrossing.

 

[T2Small]

Maybe this doesnt belong here, if so I apologize.
I already have the tokico Illuminas with the eibach pro kit and I have been reading through this thread and others to try to build my own coilover kit as well. Could I buy a cheap ebay kit just for the sleeves and then buy hypercoil springs (choosing the spring rates I want) and make it work with my illuminas? You can get a cheap coilover sleeve kit for $38 shipped, that comes with the upper mounts and the sleeves, then Id swap in the hypercoils and have a pretty good set up, I would think, to use with my adjustable illuminas. Thanks for the help, Im looking forward to really get into road racing and autocrossing.

Yes, you can run a coil-over sleeve with Illuminas. I believe the coil over sleeve is a slightly different size for the Illuminas though. (It's been a LONG time since I got rid of the Illuminas for Konis.)

I would think twice about getting a $38 part that suspends that entire corner of the car. I'm not saying they are bad (don't know), but I have heard reports of catastrophic failure of cheap threaded sleeves. I'm sure Ground Control's threaded sleeve can't be too bad in terms of price.

 

[RiGs2G]

yeah thats true. I was trying to do it the cheapest way possible. haha. But ground controls arent too bad (about 400 if I remember correctly). Do you know if they sell just the sleeves, so when/if I upgrade to Konis, I wont have to buy a whole new kit?

 

[T2Small]

yeah thats true. I was trying to do it the cheapest way possible. haha. But ground controls arent too bad (about 400 if I remember correctly). Do you know if they sell just the sleeves, so when/if I upgrade to Konis, I wont have to buy a whole new kit?

I would call Ground Control. I don't personally use them, but I would if I was doing it over. For my sleeves I simply ordered another inner ring to move the perch from the Tokico to the Koni.

-Kevin

 

[RiGs2G]

Yeah thats what Ill do. Thanks!

 

[DG-FNR]

Looks like Todd's dsm.org redirect server has blown up - you can reach autocross.dsm.org at its base url of Autocross.dsm.org until he gets it fixed.

DG

 

[DG-FNR]

...and it's fixed.

DG

 

[EGuenther]

Hey, just reading through the tech section for 1G's on the autocross site. The issue about the steering can be solved by modifying the power steering pump. Not sure if you know this or want to add it to your site. I can find a 'how-to' link somewhere if you care.
-Eric

 

[Dallas J]

The "fix" as far as Ive seen only prolongs the problem which can still creep up when staying in the upper revs range too long.

edit: just a though, Is it possible to put the 2g pump on a 1g?

 

[DSMunknown]

Gotta get myself an AWD or Evo. Don't think DG's upgrade is worth it for the FWD.

 

[DG-FNR]

The home page for "Build your own Konis" has been updated at:

Autocross.dsm.org - Build Your Own Konis

I have added in some more part numbers, some advice for assembly and sourcing, and some rules for group buys and shops.

Enjoy!

DG

 

[DG-FNR]

Oi.

Over in this thread http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/site-problems-feedback/430373-neg-rep-gsx-coilovers-2.html

everybody's favourite "wiseman" has this to say:

Now, it goes without saying that I'll have at least one criticism of the stunningly beautiful coilovers in the picture above (given who made them). But, please, before getting to that, look at all the good stuff: Konis, of course. HyperCo springs. Zero-rate helpers. The smallest spring that fits around the shock. Coaxial hats and pillowballs. And, if you look very closely, it seems that there are Torrington bearings under the helpers - an incredible touch. These are works of art. These things are better than anything that cost twice as much. You should take the picture of Salma Hayek off your wall and put this up, instead.

But there's one things that is wrong with them. There's one thing that is worthy of criticism and fixing. As a hint, it would not take much time or effort to fix the problem, too. What is it?

Pay attention to that last sentence. As it is impossible for him to ever admit that anything I ever did has any value, he has to squeeze in a little dig.

After a couple of posts where he plays coy, he finally makes his big reveal as to what the "problem" is:

The answer to the "test" (in Post #46) is that the stand-offs between the hats and the plates are too long. This reduces the total amount of travel available. The stand-offs should only be long enough to keep the hats off the plate at about a 30* angle (which is more than enough for either end of a DSM). Any longer than this is sub-optimal.

*sigh*

Because, of course, I would never test any part I designed to check for things like bump interference.

Unluckily for Mr "I speculate all the time but never DO anything", not only did I test this, but I photographed it as well. To wit:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This picture was taken with the spring off, the wheel off, and the suspension at max bump. The limit in this case is the top of the upper control arm making contact with the upper surface of the wheel well. Assuming you have a small enough tire to get to this point (mine would not) this is the absolute limit of bump travel in a 2G DSM. And as can readily be seen from the photo, there is a good inch of travel left on the shock.

That soi-disant "suboptimal" lower standoff is sized precisely long enough to prevent contact between the upper hat and the bearing housing no matter what the angle, while still leaving just enough room for the bump stop to be engaged prior to the control arm reaching its travel limit, should you wish to run a bump stop and should you have enough tire clearance to actually get there.

In other words, I thought about that, I tested the damn thing, and it works exactly as designed.

Let this be (yet another) warning about paying too much attention to "experts" who lack actual practical experience.

DG

 

[ViciousLord]

DG, where do you recommend we buy the pillowball mounts and remaining parts to piece together this set up? I have a new set of Koni's sitting in my garage.