broken timing tensioner

[Proud Owner]

I'll try to be to the point with the question here and then list all the details in case anyone wants the info but please dont reply unless you read most or all of it and only reply if you're sure, not guessing. thanks. the question is, can you break a hydrualic tensioner by rotating the engine by the cams instead of the crank?
here's the details. we replaced my head gasket and while in there we did the water pump, belt, idlers, tensioner etc. all with a new Gates kit. The car has been runing GREAT for about 500 miles or so. Recently we've been tweaking the adjustable cams. I dont have the luxury of a dyno so we're making a SMALL change then going for a drive and dataloging to see spool times and rpm/MPH rise etc. (I know, dyno is best, this thread is not about that). ANWAY when we've been adjusting the cams, we cant get to all the bolts without turning the enigne a bit as we go. My helper is underneath on the crank and I'm up top at the cams. unfortunatly he's not strong enough to turn the engine himself so I've been helping by pulling the cam at the same time. so we're BOTH turning the engine (probably from the cam more though cuz he's a wimp). last time we did this the car ran and sounded TERRIBLE. when I shut it down I noticed the timing belt was lose. took it apart and sure enough the tensioner is pushed all the way back and doesnt budge. is it more likely that it broke on its own or did we pretty much do it in by pulling on the cam? good news is that the belt didnt slip at all and everything still lines up so I'm hoping the engine is ok. anyway, let me know if you have experienced this.
thanks and sorry for the long post.

 

[92AWDHX40]

I never broke one like that chanced are it could be a old one or numerous things to cause it to break you can't rule anything out.

 

[GST Jeremy]

I've jumped a t belt 3 teeth in the "safe" direction by the cam gears being turned. I didn't know it right away. it sounded terrible I started it and shut it right off. pulled the timing cover and found the belt jumped. I redid the timing and its actually been fine since pretty scary though

 

[chrysler kid]

You should pull the lower timing cover off again and set belt tension to spec, rotate the crank to tdc, then wait 15 minutes to verify tensioner and arm are still at spec

 

[Proud Owner]

thanks for the input so far. I did pull the lower (outer) timing cover and when I apply torque to the tensioner pully (to simulate the tensioner working) the timing marks between both cams and crank all line up so nothing jumped. and I'm posative nothing jumped when we were pulling on it either. I have removed the tensioner and its definitly broken. has been sitting, out of the car now for a full day and is still 100% fully retracted (pin all the way down). its actually even further in than where you could put the "grenade pin" back in!
as I said in the original post it was a brand new Gates kit. anyone have good experience with the Beck Arnley ones? that's what I'm considering replacing it with.

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

Replace the tensioner with an OEM unit only. gates makes decent products, but the tensioner is a critical part where timing is concerned. Cheaper alternatives could cost you much more in the long run. You got lucky this time.

 

[miliman13]

+1 on oem tension-er.
Theoretically i find it unlikely that rotating from cam could be cause since regardless its a cycle. But if you were torquing the exhaust cam then perhaps since the tesnsioner is below, sounds like you could have forced the belt to move the arm and place pressure in the piston of the tensioner and breaking the seals. They are to be compressed slowly to quickly and they give out.
I believe your arm may be just as guilty. When resolving your issue make sure the arm is firm and cocked towards the tensioner so the piston doesn't go completely up thus then not going back down later.

 

[chrysler kid]

The gates hydralic tensioners have a huge made in China stamp on them. If they made a huge stamp on the side of it because it was the cheapest thing to do, you can pretty much guarantee everything inside is cheaply made too.

Only oem for the hydraulic tensioner

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

The gates kits have a huge made in China stamp on them. If they made a huge stamp on the side of it because it was the cheapest thing to do, you can pretty much guarantee everything inside is cheaply made too.

Only oem for the hydraulic tensioner

I wouldn't go so far as say that all Gates components are "cheap". I have never had an issue running their pulleys, accessory belts, blue timing belts, and even water pumps. I just oppose using the hydraulic tensioner.

 

[luv2rallye]

Use OEM hydraulic timing belt tensioner or you will regret it down the line. And I agree with miliman13, rotating the engine by the cams probably forced the tensioner piston to move too quickly which damaged the seals in there. Even when compressing a new tensioner in a vice to put the grenade pin in, you must go VERY VERY SLOWLY (steps of: 1/4 turn of vise handle, then wait 10 seconds for it to settle, repeat) or you will damage the seals in the new one. So I can imagine what the full force on it did by rotating the engine by the cams. ALWAYS rotate engine using harmonic balancer pulley bolt only in clockwise direction.

 

[Proud Owner]

The gates kits have a huge made in China stamp on them. If they made a huge stamp on the side of it because it was the cheapest thing to do, you can pretty much guarantee everything inside is cheaply made too.

Only oem for the hydraulic tensioner

and this brings me to my other reason to be conerned here. if I wanted cheap made in china garbage I would've gone to autozone and gotten duralast crap. I went out of my way to buy something i thought was a superior product and got Gates (known for their belts etc). the box says made in USA but the tensioner itself says made in china! WTFFFFFFFFF??????? there has to be a law about this!!!!
I never go to stealerships but maybe for just this part I will... ugh...
thanks again guys!

 

[chrysler kid]

and this brings me to my other reason to be conerned here. if I wanted cheap made in china garbage I would've gone to autozone and gotten duralast crap. I went out of my way to buy something i thought was a superior product and got Gates (known for their belts etc). the box says made in USA but the tensioner itself says made in china! WTFFFFFFFFF??????? there has to be a law about this!!!!
I never go to stealerships but maybe for just this part I will... ugh...
thanks again guys!

I sell oem mitsu components here at autozone. Unfortunately we are not able to get the hydraulic tensioner. I can get you a gmb waterpump made in Japan with a 3 year warranty, and gates racing belt, continental belt, bando, and mitsu oem timing belts over the counter within 3 hours of ordering it. Dayco and duralast don't even offer a timing belt kit for our cars thankfully

I have a gates racing belt on my car right now, but I will admit If their racing belt was black I wouldn't have paid $100 for it.

I'm in no way knocking gates at all, but the hydraulic tensioner clearly is inferior to mitsubishi which is why the full gates kit costs about what the oem mitsu tensioner costs. The tensioner wasn't exactly a great design to begin with compared to others for dual overhead cam cars, so a cheap copy is just not good to chance.

 

[Proud Owner]

thanks. and i should be clear and say I'm not dissing Autozone here either. I buy TONS of autozone stuff. But it is hit or miss when it comes to quality and I figured the tensioner was one place I didnt want to have a hit or miss part so I thought I was doing it right going with Gates. ugh..
anyway, if anyone has a great experience with an aftermarket tensioner like Beck Arnley, Dayco, GMB etc. please let me know.
thanks.

 

[Mauispyder]

I think anyone on this site with a running dsm has an oem tensioner.

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

The OP has been warned. If they still insist on using an alternative to the numerous recommendations for an OEM, that is on them. But what do we know.....

 

[chrysler kid]

Why did I just notice the OP has a 420a.

Anyways my last NT with a 420a had a gates kit and only made it 20k miles and 2 years before it failed and I heard the belt slapping the plastic. It ran fine but man I could hear the belt slapping the timing cover

Regardless of engine only use oem parts on interference motors. You can use whatever you want but it's oem or china regardless of who has their name on the box for a hydraulic tensioner

 

[Proud Owner]

thanks everyone. Yes its a 420a. one last question. does anyone know of any reputable online places to get OEM parts or is it dealer only? I've called around to 5 dealers in my area and so far are being quoted over $500 for the tensioner!!!! 1 was was just under $700!!!!!!!!!

 

[luv2rallye]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/where-can-i-buy-oem-parts-besides-junkyards-and-ebay.238788/

Stay with the real Mitsubishi places as first choice. Call first to make sure they really have it in stock as many now still list them but don't really have it in stock (and sometimes won't tell you for days or never. Or they'll ship other ordered parts but not this one - when you finally get the other parts it will say this part is N/A or back ordered - but you'll never get it).

I've had good luck with:
http://oemmitsubishiparts.com/
https://www.jnztuning.com/oempartscat.html
https://www.mitsubishiparts.com/oe_parts_catalog.html

(but these cars are so old that even they might not have some parts anymore.)

 

[miliman13]

By default for OEM I usually go to extreme psi and Stm.

 

[Mauispyder]

04667283
Parts.com $188, I don't know anything about this site, but claims to be an oe part.
Mitsubishipartswarehouse $203, I've heard of these guys before at least.
Sorry I didn't remember it was a nonturbo, 420a parts are probably getting expensive.
Turn it slow at the crank, get a stronger helper, good luck.

 

[Proud Owner]

thanks everyone. I found this site which claims factory OEM parts and the part number matches. its about $150 which is $60 or more less than everywhere else. http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/products/TENSIONER-Belt/4331862/04667283.html
since its a 420a its actually a chrystler motor. seems like they put this thing in like 200 different makes and models so there should be plenty of these parts floating around.