Borg Warner S200 (Bullseye S256) Review

[AWDer]

Don't count me out for getting results yet. I just finished getting everything in line and fixed, if needed, for this next season. I have just about everything I need to max this thing out with the bolt on housing on a 2.0. So, we will see how it does at my altitude. I am really crossing my fingers that I can keep this thing together and find time to hit the dyno also.

Josh

 

[95GSXBLUR]

I'm glad to see someone else is on the Bolt-on Housing.... the differences is that I'm @ 600 feet and on a 2.4l I hope I don't max it out sooner @ a lower HP number.

What the hell worth a shot.

 

[We're on Boost]

Hope it goes great Scott! More important to keep it together than to get big numbers right away though.

The dual pump setup, would that be 2 pumps in series - intank pump followed by an inline pump on the same fuel line? Or would it be 2 pumps in parallel?

Gary

 

[95GSXBLUR]

Gary -

I'm thinking about doing the "Y" method - two pumps next to each other feeding a single -6 line. I shoulda gone -8 but I think -6 will suffice with enough flow behind it.

Thanks for the encouragement! I'm bringing it down to Indy (about 45 min) to my Mitsu tech to give a shot at those pesky leaks. They're not bad enough to prevent me from driving... it really only leaks when I'm stopped - I have no fluid loss before I begin a drive until I get back - all the levels check - but when it sits over night, that's when I get a few drips on the floor.

I agree - I've quality built this car - that's why I'm only on low boost/pump gas until everything is up to par, then it's big numbers

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

more results will just show more of what we already have. these turbos make great power and amazing torque for their size!

 

[95GSXBLUR]

GOOD LORD!

DSMlink logged a max if 56.4lbs/min @ only 50% throttle and 28 PSI on my gauge and estimated 40+ PSI on link...

If I go over 50% throttle I'm screaming over 30psi - THIS IS INSANE!

I have a lot of tuning ahead of me - I'm getting little to no knock (< 2* @ tip in areas).

I gotta get this boost down holy crap is this thing boost happy!

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

GOOD LORD!

DSMlink logged a max if 56.4lbs/min @ only 50% throttle and 28 PSI on my gauge and estimated 40+ PSI on link...

If I go over 50% throttle I'm screaming over 30psi - THIS IS INSANE!

I have a lot of tuning ahead of me - I'm getting little to no knock (< 2* @ tip in areas).

I gotta get this boost down holy crap is this thing boost happy!

hahahahah your reaction was the same as mine was over a year ago.

 

[95GSXBLUR]

I think my boost controller is stuck... and is why I can't get the boost down... it's a crappy freebie I got.


anyway I'll fix that a little later right now I'm going over a few longs to see if I can get the tune where it needs to be and lean her out.. 10:1 just isn't cutting it.

 

[2gGSX]

GOOD LORD!

DSMlink logged a max if 56.4lbs/min @ only 50% throttle and 28 PSI on my gauge and estimated 40+ PSI on link...

If I go over 50% throttle I'm screaming over 30psi - THIS IS INSANE!

I have a lot of tuning ahead of me - I'm getting little to no knock (< 2* @ tip in areas).

I gotta get this boost down holy crap is this thing boost happy!

While 50% throttle is not indicative of a full run, your MAFT will probably have to be calibrated if it hasn't already. Get some logs up!

 

[95GSXBLUR]

yeah I need to calibrate the MAF - I think the boost controller is stuck and why I'm hitting so much boost.

Lots and lots of work ahead of me - the car feels super strong! I'm hoping I don't have to switch to an external gate just yet....I hope it's just the S****y controller.

I gotta get some school work done then I'll get back to the car.

 

[We're on Boost]

Cool, glad you didn't blow that thing up. It would probably take half the planet with it!

Gary

 

[Lurker]

GOOD LORD!

DSMlink logged a max if 56.4lbs/min @ only 50% throttle and 28 PSI on my gauge and estimated 40+ PSI on link...

I was wondering.. if dsmlink (over)estimated 40+psi while your gauge says only 28psi, doesn't that also imply that the 54.6 lbs/min (which I assume also from dsmlink) is also an overestimate ?

By a quick calculation, the corrected airflow would be (28+14.5)/(40+14.5)*54.6 = approx. 42lbs/min

 

[Black95TSIawd]

yeah I need to calibrate the MAF - I think the boost controller is stuck and why I'm hitting so much boost.

Lots and lots of work ahead of me - the car feels super strong! I'm hoping I don't have to switch to an external gate just yet....I hope it's just the S****y controller.

I gotta get some school work done then I'll get back to the car.

If you are actually at 28psi and dsmlink is estimating 40, that is a 40 percent error. True airflow is probably around 33lbs/min. You really, really need to calibrate that MAF.

 

[2gGSX]

No one should be jumping to conclusions until they actually see a clean log from a pull for themselves.

 

[Lurker]

Black95TSIawd: It's not 40-percent error. For airflow, we have to think in term of absolute pressure. So 28psi really means 28psi above atmospheric pressure which is 14.5 psi.

So, given that correction, it is only a 22% error, NOT 40%.

If you are actually at 28psi and dsmlink is estimating 40, that is a 40 percent error. True airflow is probably around 33lbs/min. You really, really need to calibrate that MAF.

 

[AWDer]

Anybody happen to notice my log in the other thread? I have correct airflow numbers, they may even read a little low. I am seeing very good results so far. I am seeing 37.4 lbs/min at 16psi at 6000ft. Figure in at least a few more lbs/min or more at sea level. My map sensor and boostest are almost identical. WHP estimate was 323 in second gear. DSMLink has always been within 10-15 hp of the dyno as far as I have seen. Usually DSMLink is the lower. Once again figure a 12-15% gain at sea level.

So in conclusion even at pump gas levels(although E85 has been in the tank for a 1.5 years) the S256 seems to perform very well.

More numbers and logs to come soon as I find time and get it tuned.

Josh

 

[2gGSX]

Anybody happen to notice my log in the other thread? I have correct airflow numbers, they may even read a little low. I am seeing very good results so far. I am seeing 37.4 lbs/min at 16psi at 6000ft. Figure in at least a few more lbs/min or more at sea level. My map sensor and boostest are almost identical. WHP estimate was 323 in second gear. DSMLink has always been within 10-15 hp of the dyno as far as I have seen. Usually DSMLink is the lower. Once again figure a 12-15% gain at sea level.

So in conclusion even at pump gas levels(although E85 has been in the tank for a 1.5 years) the S256 seems to perform very well.

More numbers and logs to come soon as I find time and get it tuned.

Josh

I can't access timing/fuel/airflow in your logs, but did you do any corrections past ~6000 RPM to the airflow sliders? If so, then your airflow is overinflated.

Furthermore, BoostEst is never supposed to exceed the MAP sensor's output during the pull.

 

[AWDer]

This is a stock 2gmas without any airflow corrections. My mas in completely stock and unhacked. The system has been boost leak tested to 40 psi. I have heard from quite a few people that every 10 degrees under 70 may show a 1psi increase in boostest. Regardless, the 37.4 number is at 7100 rpm and the boostest and map sensor are identical there. I am not new to tuning and DSMLink. I have been using it for 4 years now, as well as a few other programs.


Josh

 

[2gGSX]

Your MAP and BoostEst is only supposed to line up at peak VE. Afterwards, it is expected to drop as engine VE decreases. It's hard to tell on your log where that point is because of the low boost and the fact that this was in second gear.

No one is accusing you of not knowing how to use DSMLink, I was just merely pointing out that the airflow readings may not be accurate. Regardless of MAS/MAF setup, it may still need to be calibrated.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Black95TSIawd: It's not 40-percent error. For airflow, we have to think in term of absolute pressure. So 28psi really means 28psi above atmospheric pressure which is 14.5 psi.

So, given that correction, it is only a 22% error, NOT 40%.

And you don't think DSMlink takes that into consideration? I know when my GM3.3Bar reads 24psi, my boostest reads 24 psi as well. Does that mean my airflow is off? And, isn't boostest and real psi supposed to match from 5500 to 6000rpm?

 

[AWDer]

It is possible, but it is at least close. I should say airflow is +/- a lb/min or so of what it is showing. My VE is probably a little better than normal up top. I have a decently flowing setup with cams and SMIM. Everything else looks pretty well lined up for the airflow it says I am producing. Hopefully within a few weeks time I will have dyno numbers. I think that will be a better testament to what kind of power and airflow the turbo is capable of.

Josh

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Care to post a recent log or is your mbc still whacked out? I very interested to see how exactly does this turbo perform as I might pick one up soon.

 

[2gGSX]

And you don't think DSMlink takes that into consideration? I know when my GM3.3Bar reads 24psi, my boostest reads 24 psi as well. Does that mean my airflow is off? And, isn't boostest and real psi supposed to match from 5500 to 6000rpm?

It's supposed to match at 100% VE--if they both read 24 psi at highest Airflow/Rev then you're fine.

It is possible, but it is at least close. I should say airflow is +/- a lb/min or so of what it is showing. My VE is probably a little better than normal up top. I have a decently flowing setup with cams and SMIM. Everything else looks pretty well lined up for the airflow it says I am producing. Hopefully within a few weeks time I will have dyno numbers. I think that will be a better testament to what kind of power and airflow the turbo is capable of.

Josh

At 6000 RPM in that log you posted you were 6.4% off at 2200 Hz. With boost and airflow at that level for that turbo, it becomes the limiting factor and not the engine so it's hard to say. Try to get another log up!

Care to post a recent log or is your mbc still whacked out? I very interested to see how exactly does this turbo perform as I might pick one up soon.

Here's one at ~25 psi. My SMIC was heat soaked by this point, which is where the knock is coming from.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/att...fuel-trimming-run04052008-1-3rd-gear-pull.dat

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Curious, why are you not modifying your 2400hz slider since boostest falls off up top? Looks good nonethe less.

 

[2gGSX]

It's supposed to fall off. Look at my Airflow/Rev trace--VE is decreasing (unfortunately) past 5300 RPM, and thus BoostEst is expected to fall. Remember that BoostEst calculations assume 100% VE at all times, and thus should only match up with MAP data at 100% VE.