Big HP Guys Help. Need some Parts Advice

[20psi_GST]

Whats up, i have a 95 Eclipse GST. Just got my taxes back and was looking into building my motor up. Block/Head everything. I was looking around for parts and what other setups were and i noticed that nobody is using an upgraded crankshaft (except shep of course) I looked around for internal mods on cars with 600+whp and none say anything about a crank

Evil_eagle is one of the most popular on this site with alot of sub 10sec passes and i noticed on his Vehicle profile he is only using a stock balanced crank. And he is making almost 700whp. I am only looking for about 500whp. Now i know i need to upgrade my connecting rods and pistons which isnt a big deal. But since nobody is using an upgraded crankshaft like an eagle one or something, i dont see the need if my HP number goals arent nothing to brag about.

I might buy a new stock remanufactured one if my stock one looks pretty rough. Mine has no signs of crankwalk at the moment.

Please any help would be great.

 

[flyinghighlm]

Read this...hopefully it will help if you did not know it was there...step by step to build a high HP "working" DSM

http://www.dsmtuners.com/sub.php?page=2gtupgrades

 

[scottsee]

If you are asking if it would be a good investment for you to spend $600 on an aftermarket crankshaft for a 500hp goal then I will say no. Jake (evil_eagle) is one talented man, he eat, breaths and sleeps DSM through his shop down in Napa, ID. He's build several stock 6bolt engines around the area that put down 533hp last month.

the mechanical effency of the stock rotating assmebly is amazing, even for the 7bolt. If you are looking for a reason to throw $ at your block for the sake of "peice of mind". Send it off to a respectable DSM vendor for a freshe-up, clearence check, re-ballance and APR's. It's not a question that has a difinitve answer that is either yes or no. stock 7bolt bottem ends have seen 500whp, some havn't seen 300.. That said, tuning is more important, and has my vote for any money throwing..

 

[20psi_GST]

Thanks for the replys. I am hoping evil stops buy for a little 411 for me. Right now i am looking at about 1500 dollars cash from taxes. Not counting the income i have from my job. Right now i am set on the crower rods/ross pistons combo. Also im replaceing the timing belt with a greddy one, also the balance shaft belt. BC 272's, ACT2100 w/ a 6puck, arp studs, metal h/g. I have all the money for that right now. If i could do with just a stock crank i would be set. Also gonna replace the valves, spring, retainers, etc. But that isnt a big deal.

Also, is there anything i could do to my stock crank maybe to make it a little stronger?

 

[Michael Z.]

If you're going to do a build up, I would recommend a built 6-bolt instead of a 7 bolt.

Check out Magnus Motorsports Engine page if you want to read more about a billet chromemoly crank and other engine options. In my opinion, it would be overkill for your application.

 

[wvturbo2]

Your crank is strong enough, the only reason i would buy an eagle who which ever company crank is to get the 100mm and do a stroker motor.

 

[MyÜberFastGSX]

The stock crank is fine. Just make sure you have it tested and checked for balance.

I agree with ^^^^. Don't build a 7 bolt block. You don't want to risk crankwalk.

 

[projecTSI]

Why would you go all out and build a block with forged internals, but then only get an ACT 2100? That would be pointless, unless you would be running a 16g, which if you were, you would not need forged internals. At the very least, get a 2600. And go with the 6 bolt as well

 

[mygsx2120]

I agree with the person above, you might as well get an A.C.T. 2600 pressure plate. It's worth the extra cost and very friendly for daily driving. You will hear people complain about the extra leg effort, but in my opinion it is very minimal. Also, why are you going with a puck clutch disc? Some very fast cars are running the street disk. Puck clutches are very grabby and mainly meant for just tracks. I am speaking from experience, I have the 2600 with a street disc in my gsx and I love it. I have a SPEC clutch in my nissan se-r with a 6 puck disc and I can't stand it. It makes just going to McDonalds to get a cheeseburger a pain in the @ss.

 

[evil_eagle]

I appreciate all the kind words guys.

Now if you are looking at doing 600whp then look no further then a 6bolt, 7bolt rods will not handle much anything over 500whp. They start to bend.

Honestly, alot of people have gotten away with just doing the 1995 2g pistons mounted on 1g rods with the balance shaft eliminator kit. I have built a few over here and it's what I call my "stage 1 motor" ARP head studs is a must. The stage one motors that I build are just these things, nothing fancy really. Just a quick run down of what I do to the stage 1 motors.

6bolt core
95 2g pistons bored 20 over 8.5~1 compression
1g rods
stock crank
rebuilt head with a good valve job
ARP head studs
ARP rod bolts
stock main bolts
And alot of choices on cams, I use FP cams, FP2's get the job done very well and you don't really need to upgrade the springs. The FP2's are about like the HKS 272/272 cams.
MLS head gasket.

This setup will handle 550whp all day long without any problems tuned correctly.

Turbo selection would be anything from the 3065 turbo and up. A good 35R or the 3065 turbo will get the job done with all the supporting mods (IE innercooler, fuel setup, engine managment such as DSMlink or AEM EMS, decent clutch ect). People have gone low 11's high 10's with 550whp with good driving. Makes an extremely fun street car thats for sure.

You don't need to go over bored really to get to 550whp. Alot of people over kill the hell out of the setup. Anything over 550whp I would look into doing eagle rods or crower rods.

Remember, detonation kills motors, tuned correctly the car will run like a champ.

I gotta get going for now, but I will chime in later with some more advice on what to do.

 

[evil_eagle]

Ok, now that I have alittle more time I can chime in more.
I wouldn't bother with a eagle crank, reason being is cause the stock 6 bolt 2L cranks will handle ALOT of abuse and power. I am still on the stock 6bolt crank and have no concerns about it even with the new setup going to be pushing damn 950whp when all done and said.
So with that said just use a good condition un grinded virgin 2.0L 6bolt crank and have it micro polished.

As far as a clutch, a 2100lb is not going to cut it with 500+whp, no way no how. 2600 or the 2900lb ACT will do it. Clutches are not rated from HP but rather TQ. Also don't bother with the 6 puck disc, there a bi*** to deal with on the streets at times, and they tend to break shit in a hury. A ACT street disc with a 2600 will do just fine.

As far as head work, there really isn't a reason to be going over board with it, the stock heads flow like none other. Ask me how I know this. My car right now as we speak is still a unported stock head with crower valve springs and HKS 272/272 cams, thats it! Stock OEM valves. This head has taken me to 9.90's without any problems.

A good head rebuild and the 95 pistons mounted on 1g rods or eagle rods will handle alot of power. It's alot cheaper then going forged and does just as good, unless you plan on going over 600whp. I know what works and what doesn't. It's amazing what stock 6bolts will handle, you would be amazed how much abuse they can really take.

 

[20psi_GST]

Thanks for the help. Right now i have a '95 so i already have the pistons ready to go. Could i get away with 500whp just using my stock 7 bolt crank (having it micro polished and balanced of course) and just upgrading the rods (with crower or eagle) and leaving the stock '95 pistons? I can always upgrade later if i plan on wanting more HP but right now im only running around on a HRC Super20g which is only rated at 500 crank hp (probably 450whp at the most). I was planning on upgrading my turbo later, but that will be a while away as i want to upgrade my tranny/axles well before i get into that.

My head i was planning on leaving fairly stock. As i dont even like to take it over 7500. I had planned on just getting a 3 angle valve job, h/g, arp studs, 272's.

Right now I put down 285whp and 280wtq (93oct and 20psi) on a very low reading mustang dyno. I was hoping to put down about 310whp and 310wtq (93oct and 20psi) after i get my motor/head work done. And of course turn the boost up to 28psi on C16 if i feel like it, but i dont think my tranny will hold so i will probably keep it easy.

BTW this is the setup i was leaning toward right now.

FP2 Cams
3-angle valve job
ARP Head Studs
Mitsu Metal H/G
Eagle Connecting Rods w/ my stock '95 Pistons
Ported 2g exhaust manifold
ACT 2600 w/ street disk
Greddy Timing belt
Prothane Motor Mounts

That is if you say its ok to go ahead with the 7bolt crank, if not ill go with the stock 6bolt

 

[evil_eagle]

Ok, now before I go any futher here, I need to explain to everyone that reads this thread. I do not build these motors and sell them to people across the states. I only do these motors for locals. Shipping these are too big of a pain in the ass. I have gotten 7 pm's since last night with people wanting me to build these stage 1 motors. If your local to me, I can do it, but out of state, I'm sorry I don't do that kind of thing.

Now back on the subject.
I would seriously consider doing a 6bolt swap. 7bolt motors are just too risky when it comes to crank walk, you would be throwing money away if it were ever to walk on you.

So with that said, do a 6bolt, 95 pistons, 1g rods or the eagle rods and be done with it, you will love how it turns out in the end.

with fp2's you can spin the motor upto 8500rpm with stock valve springs with no problems what so ever.

 

[20psi_GST]

Now back on the subject.
I would seriously consider doing a 6bolt swap. 7bolt motors are just too risky when it comes to crank walk, you would be throwing money away if it were ever to walk on you.

So with that said, do a 6bolt, 95 pistons, 1g rods or the eagle rods and be done with it, you will love how it turns out in the end.

with fp2's you can spin the motor upto 8500rpm with stock valve springs with no problems what so ever.

Ok man, thanks for all the help. Im kinda afraid to turn the motor that high so ill probably keep it a little lower RPM's then that. Ive always heard good things about FP thats why i was looking into puttin those cams in the car. And everytime someone ask for cam suggestions, the FP1's or 2's always seem to be the most popular.

 

[evil_eagle]

Ok man, thanks for all the help. Im kinda afraid to turn the motor that high so ill probably keep it a little lower RPM's then that. Ive always heard good things about FP thats why i was looking into puttin those cams in the car. And everytime someone ask for cam suggestions, the FP1's or 2's always seem to be the most popular.

8500rpm is really not much at all, we do it on customers evo's with stock valvetrain with 272 cams all day long. The fp2's are really not that agressive, you can spin the motor up alot with those cams on stock valve springs. There are alot of people that spin there motors upto 9000rpm on 272 cams and just shimed stock springs.

I have 272/272 cams with singal crower valves springs setup to 1.52" spring height and I spin the motor up to 10,000rpm now, no problems.

Don't be scared to spin the motor past 8000rpm. It's past 8500rpm that I would start to be concerned as far as valve springs go.

 

[madgrrl]

I would seriously consider doing a 6bolt swap. 7bolt motors are just too risky when it comes to crank walk, you would be throwing money away if it were ever to walk on you.

Okay, so I totally agree with what evil_eagle recommended.

1500, is not quite enough to give yourself a proper rebuild/built motor. However, you could go by way of budget and add little bits here and there (like putting in 1g rods, with 2g pistons) but it will not cure the fact that the 7bolt is a bad platform to use....

However, with whatever build you choose to use, you're going to encounter the fact, that replacing the internals of your engine (or swapping it) will make it stronger and more resilient but it wont put down more horsepower unless you support your build with tuning, fueling, etc (you kinda already have a bigger turbo, else I would put that in there)

What about giving yourself some engine management/tuning (larger injectors...) in the mean time until you can source a built 6bolt or hand pick the build you want from evil with a 6bolt...(I'm guessing par your profile that you still don't have AEM EMS...)

Tuning will give you better control of protecting the engine you have now, and many/all of the parts can transfer over to a new engine when the time comes. Like Evil said, you area playing with inevitable crankwalk on your engine, but you have the opportunity to use a 7bolt as a learning experience for tuning/modification until you really get serious.



okay... back to work...

-mp

I just got my 6bolt built at FFWD Connection(awesome)... http://tuning.nrml.cc/p_89gsx.htm

 

[20psi_GST]

One more question. Im looking to try and find a complete 1g block. Thats pistons, rods, crank and all together. If i can find one at a decent price i plan on just going with that setup and throwing my 95 pistons on there. At what point should i start to worry about this setup. As i am only wanting around 450-500whp (right now). later on down the line im sure i will go with a much larger turbo setup and want to make just a little more power.

if i can only find the crank and block (which this is what i hope) i will throw some eagle rods on there along with my 2g pistons

Also, are the 2g pistons really that much stronger then the 1g? If i found a complete 1g block in good condition would it really be a good investment to just go ahead and throw the 2g pistons on the rods?

 

[evil_eagle]

One more question. Im looking to try and find a complete 1g block. Thats pistons, rods, crank and all together. If i can find one at a decent price i plan on just going with that setup and throwing my 95 pistons on there. At what point should i start to worry about this setup. As i am only wanting around 450-500whp (right now). later on down the line im sure i will go with a much larger turbo setup and want to make just a little more power.

if i can only find the crank and block (which this is what i hope) i will throw some eagle rods on there along with my 2g pistons

Also, are the 2g pistons really that much stronger then the 1g? If i found a complete 1g block in good condition would it really be a good investment to just go ahead and throw the 2g pistons on the rods?

I would say if your wanting to go over 600-650whp then forged internals will be the way to go.

As far as 2g pistons they are 8.5~1compression vs the stock 1g pistons are 7.8~1 compression. So you get more compression with the 2g pistons. If it were me, I would buy new 2g pistons, they can be had for around $250 with rings and pins. Topline makes a nice set for the OEM replacement 2g pistons. Those are what I use in the stage 1 motors I build for customers over here.

 

[madgrrl]

One more question. Im looking to try and find a complete 1g block. Thats pistons, rods, crank and all together. If i can find one at a decent price..

heck, I have a 1g shortblock in my garage if you want to buy it. pm me. it has worn rings, but if you are replacing the pistons that doesn't matter.

-mp

 

[GSTeclipse]

heck, I have a 1g shortblock in my garage if you want to buy it. pm me. it has worn rings, but if you are replacing the pistons that doesn't matter.

-mp

that would not be worth him buying becuase the shipping alone would be what a block would be if shipping from Cali to North Carolina


Great advice Evil Eagle , that is the same setup I am running and I wouldn't have done it anyother way for the amount of money it cost

SBR sales the OEM 2g pistons with rings and wrist pins for $199 ....you can't beat that for the price

 

[projecTSI]

You can also pick up a set of new 2g pistons and rings off of ebay for under $100 shipped.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/95-9...7QQihZ007QQcategoryZ33623QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

They are made by Nippon, but he does not have .020 over in stock right now. I just asked, and he said they should be back in about a month. I will be doing this 2g piston/1g rod setup in my 92 tsi as soon as they get them back in stock.

 

[GSTeclipse]

The 2g pistons from SBR are OEM and have the Mitsu stamp on them for $199 way better then Topline or Nippon

 

[20psi_GST]

Just bought a 6bolt block today. Pistons, rods, crank, everything seems to be in good working order. Gonna take it apart in a few days and get the crank balanced and ready to be put in the car. Only prob with the bottom end is the piston rings were wore out. but with the new pistons going in it thats not a big worry of mine.