Beat an STI...but why?

[tsi1991awd]

I am wondering if someone can enlighten me on pickup speeds of a 1g. Heres the deal...last night I raced an STI from 60+ and then from a 40 roll in 2nd gear. I ate him both times.

He jumped on 2 when we were doing a 40 roll but I immediately passed him once I got on it. We pulled off at the next exit and he told me what he had (upgraded turbo, front mount, 3 inch intercooler piping, hks bov, 3 inch exhaust, blah blah) running 15psi.

I still have my stock intercooler and piping, stock intake with k&n filter, e316g, o2 dump and 3 inch open dp, e3 turbo manifold. Thats it.

He claimed to push 323awhp. I know at 15 pounds I am not anywhere close to 300hp...i am untuned. This guy was absolutely tripping. He said he has never been beat before. From what I heard, he didnt miss a gear or anything. He said he didnt miss either.

So what I want to know is, does a DSM have that good of pick up over an STI or could it happen to be driver or mechanical error on his part? His car seemed like it was running perfect. Oh, he also said that he is seriously thinking of gettng a Talon (lets hope he is)

 

[sik4g63]

I dont see this thread going anywhere fast.

 

[redmitsu95]

+ to the not so fastness of this thread

 

[JusMX141]

Mention street racing in any thread and it will be closed fast.


I know why you beat the STi....they're slow.

 

[Jets303]

Sounds like that rx is mechanically inclined. Those subies rip

 

[rock1t]

Mention street racing in any thread and it will be closed fast.


I know why you beat the STi....they're slow.

True, STI's are nice cars but they drive and handle like bricks on the road. It reminded me of my old four wheel drive fourwheeler, does not like to turn all that well.

 

[JayRolla]

True, STI's are nice cars but they drive and handle like bricks on the road. It reminded me of my old four wheel drive fourwheeler, does not like to turn all that well.

An STi would out handle any stock dsm anyday.

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

because its a subaru, thats why you beat it.

 

[tsi1991awd]

I wasnt trying to discuss street racing. I am trying to figure out the nature of the beast. "Because its a subaru" isnt really an answer...because the same is said about DSMs all the time. Maybe the point you all are trying to make is they are built like shit? Or does it have to do with gearing issues? I guess it could be that they are built more toward rally so they dont hold up well on drag?

 

[95burgundyesi]

Sti's have short gears and maybe he wasn't in power. Thats what I have watched sti's drag race. And the manifolds stock flow long and crappy from what I read.

for whoopin on a car with the old reliable

for street racing

 

[tsi1991awd]

Guess 4g63s are just the best then No seriously, I can honestly say that I have never had a car like this. I have had a lot of V8s and they dont come close. Yes it was bad street racing, I usually dont do it but this guy wouldnt get off of my ass. Cutting me off and all that shit...I schooled him though. I guess I will research sti's so I can get a better understanding. There seems to be a lot of restrictions on the motor

 

[DSM1G90]

Also, why you beat him is that his motor faces north/south and the power has to be "bent" 90* to the axles.

Thus, axle HP and torque really drops compared to crankshaft output HP and torque when power gets bent 90*, in as well he's doing it double being AWD.

Why of your comment on V8's not being nothing compared to your DSM: their axle HP and torque really drops with the 90* "power bend."

where we FWD/AWD units have almost direct power with the crank and axles laying in the same direction.

Why do you think "Crotch Rockets" bikes have so much power outside of the power to weight ratio being so low?: crank and axle laying in the same direction.

Let's see what you do now with a Chevy Cobalt SuperCharged SS ...

(why I won't buy a AWD Subaru - their AWD system is great, but eats plenty of gas and you have to keep tires continuallly rotated so you won't bust up the viscous coupling...)



Have fun with the street racing..and don't get caught. -DSM

 

[juanpac0]

True, STI's are nice cars but they drive and handle like bricks on the road. It reminded me of my old four wheel drive fourwheeler, does not like to turn all that well.

I drove a ~337whp (pump gas) 20g'd STi with suspension, a stoptech 6 piston setup, and pilot sport 2's.

That thing would out turn, out accelerate, and outbrake most DSMs I've been around, and NONE of the DSMs match it in practicality. 4 doors AND a real trunk is worth more than 50whp to me on a daily.

DSMs as I've seen them so far are one trick ponies in that most people just build them to go fast in a straight line, very few people actually seem to respect having a well balanced car. I doubt you'd be able to use all of your 500whp on stock brakes at the track.

BUT DSMs are cheap, fun, and the motors are super reliable, and thus they command respect. I love my DSM every time I get behind the wheel.


/rant

 

[tsi1991awd]

Also, why you beat him is that his motor faces north/south and the power has to be "bent" 90* to the axles.

Thus, axle HP and torque really drops compared to crankshaft output HP and torque when power gets bent 90*, in as well he's doing it double being AWD.

Why of your comment on V8's not being nothing compared to your DSM: their axle HP and torque really drops with the 90* "power bend."

where we FWD/AWD units have almost direct power with the crank and axles laying in the same direction.

Why do you think "Crotch Rockets" bikes have so much power outside of the power to weight ratio being so low?: crank and axle laying in the same direction.

Let's see what you do now with a Chevy Cobalt SuperCharged SS ...

(why I won't buy a AWD Subaru - their AWD system is great, but eats plenty of gas and you have to keep tires continuallly rotated so you won't bust up the viscous coupling...)



Have fun with the street racing..and don't get caught. -DSM

Thanks for bringing this insight to the table. It didnt even cross my mind. Mitsu had the right idea, wonder why everyone talks down about them. Ive always liked them (DSMs) before I owned one.

 

[tsi1991awd]

I drove a ~337whp (pump gas) 20g'd STi with suspension, a stoptech 6 piston setup, and pilot sport 2's.

That thing would out turn, out accelerate, and outbrake most DSMs I've been around, and NONE of the DSMs match it in practicality. 4 doors AND a real trunk is worth more than 50whp to me on a daily.

DSMs as I've seen them so far are one trick ponies in that most people just build them to go fast in a straight line, very few people actually seem to respect having a well balanced car. I doubt you'd be able to use all of your 500whp on stock brakes at the track.

BUT DSMs are cheap, fun, and the motors are super reliable, and thus they command respect. I love my DSM every time I get behind the wheel.


/rant

You make a very good point. STIs were built with rally in mind to begin with. I suppose every car has a different purpose it was built for....my DSM is meant for the line. I would get a 240 if I wanted something thag handled.

 

[donniekak]

Also, why you beat him is that his motor faces north/south and the power has to be "bent" 90* to the axles.

Thus, axle HP and torque really drops compared to crankshaft output HP and torque when power gets bent 90*, in as well he's doing it double being AWD.

Why of your comment on V8's not being nothing compared to your DSM: their axle HP and torque really drops with the 90* "power bend."

where we FWD/AWD units have almost direct power with the crank and axles laying in the same direction.

Why do you think "Crotch Rockets" bikes have so much power outside of the power to weight ratio being so low?: crank and axle laying in the same direction.

Let's see what you do now with a Chevy Cobalt SuperCharged SS ...

(why I won't buy a AWD Subaru - their AWD system is great, but eats plenty of gas and you have to keep tires continuallly rotated so you won't bust up the viscous coupling...)



Have fun with the street racing..and don't get caught. -DSM

Last time i checked i had 2 90* bends in my powertrain. Transfer case, and the rear end both do it. The drivetrain layout in mitsubishi cars has one of the highest drivetrain losses of all the different types.

 

[dunsunIII]

i still would pick my dsm over an sti any day. my friend has nonthing but problem with his can, and there not ez to work on.

 

[Nick2gGST]

1) it was a imprezza with sti badges probably a body kit conversion and he probably lied about the mods...that's pretty common.

2) with your mods you probably have like 260whp and I'm sure your power to weight is a LOT better then a subaru. Take your cars weight and devide it by the horse power you have and that will equal your power to weight. For example if you have a 3000lb car with 240hp your power to weight ratio would be 12.5. if his car is 323hp and his car weighs 3500(just for example, probably way off) his would be 10.8
If i'm doing that wrong please someone kindly let me know.

 

[Nick2gGST]

you gutta love the sound of a boxer engine with exhaust though...admit it people.

 

[ApexVIII]

you gutta love the sound of a boxer engine with exhaust though...admit it people.

i do not like how Subys sound...

a cammed 4g63 sounds way better. IMO

 

[juanpac0]

you gutta love the sound of a boxer engine with exhaust though...admit it people.

I love it.

@ dunsuniii - They're like legos, you can mix and match parts from practically any suby and have it fit another one. They're incredibly easy to work on, my buddy and I pulled his motor in like 30 minutes.

 

[RoninEclipse2G]

Also, why you beat him is that his motor faces north/south and the power has to be "bent" 90* to the axles.

Thus, axle HP and torque really drops compared to crankshaft output HP and torque when power gets bent 90*, in as well he's doing it double being AWD.

Why of your comment on V8's not being nothing compared to your DSM: their axle HP and torque really drops with the 90* "power bend."

where we FWD/AWD units have almost direct power with the crank and axles laying in the same direction.

Why do you think "Crotch Rockets" bikes have so much power outside of the power to weight ratio being so low?: crank and axle laying in the same direction.

Let's see what you do now with a Chevy Cobalt SuperCharged SS ...

(why I won't buy a AWD Subaru - their AWD system is great, but eats plenty of gas and you have to keep tires continuallly rotated so you won't bust up the viscous coupling...)



Have fun with the street racing..and don't get caught. -DSM

Uh, while some of your points have validity, they kinda fall on their face at the same time. AWD DSM's still have to kink the rear wheel power *90 twice, and there's also the torque loss that unequal length axle shafts cause. Driveline losses between DSM's and Subaru's are almost equal.

There are 2 factors that I can see that would really make the difference in this competetion. Weight and claimed HP.

1G GSX's are several hundred pounds lighter than an STi any day of the week and a weight difference that great can make up for a fair difference in underhood ponies. Also the STi's are twitchy when it comes to their tuning so someone's 300+ dyno sheet could be almost useless on the street because the tune was only truly good for 4th gear on a cool dyno. Iffy tunes are very common.

Finally the STi 6 speeds have very close gear ratios, the Suby owner may have had to to make anywhere from 1-3 more shifts than the GSX

I've worked on and for both Mitsu and Suby. I know their strengths and weaknesses



Oh, and a highly boosted mitsu is just as thirsty as any similarly boosted suby, and more viscous center diffs are killed by idiots that improperly change tires (2 when 4 are needed)or don't change their fluids than lack of rotating.

 

[RoninEclipse2G]

I love it.

@ dunsuniii - They're like legos, you can mix and match parts from practically any suby and have it fit another one. They're incredibly easy to work on, my buddy and I pulled his motor in like 30 minutes.

That's the damn truth. My 90 legacy has a bunch of parts from WRX's and earlier 2.5RS' and all of it bolted right up

 

[907dsm]

Mention street racing in any thread and it will be closed fast.


I know why you beat the STi....they're slow.

EXACTLY PLAIN AND SIMPLE

 

[tsi1991awd]

As to the comment about lying about mods done to his car...we pulled into McDonalds and I looked under his hood. Everything I mentioned I saw firsthand. As far as PTW ratio goes, that could be a big one. I stripped the rear interior and my frot seats are out of a non turbo which feel 20 pounds lighter each to me (carrying them). Now we are having the discussion I was looking for. I didnt take into account the 6 speed