I beat a TYPE R. WTF

[AlecW81]

If I'm not mistaken it just causes the lifters to give the cams a more aggressive profile (simulating larger cams) so why not just get some real CAMS and cut through the BS?

 

[BKdaMoRoN]

My buddy has a 2000 Integra LS with only a CAI and he walks all over GS-R's. We went to the track a while ago and he raced 4 GS-R's (all lightly modded) and won every time. Granted, he's a very good driver, but my vote goes with VTEC being overrated

 

[sphillips91]

I agree. Put more aggressive cams on the ####er. The v-tec technology might have been pulled from the F1 racers but a damn civic sure isnt an F1.

My 1991 240sx did the same thing. You would feel it pull more at a certain rpm range. Granted its not the exact same thing but thats what it feels like. If it wasnt a big part of their marketing they wouldnt put v-tec badging on the cars. It sells em.

 

[91TSI505]

Originally posted by AlecW81
I owned a GSR previously (as I've previously stated) and while it is nice when VTEC kicks in, it's nowhere near the power of even a 13G turbo. Yes there are some very fast honda's out there, however there is a much higher percentage of slow Honda's... even those that are modded. I'd say out of all the modded Honda's you'll come across on the road (with or without VTEC) 90% of them are slower than a stock turbo DSM (FWD or AWD) I've yet to come across a Honda in my numerous races (track and street) that has been able to even hang with me, either in my near stock TSi AWD that I previously owned (93) or in any of my friends DSMs that let me drive theirs occasionally (when they were too sloshed or were trying to pick up a girl etc) I've only seen 1 Honda that I really respected... a gutted CRX with an H22a swap that almost kept up with the car I was driving... a 99 GSX w/Green Turbo and all the supporting mods for aprox 22psi on pump gas. Thats ONE Honda in well over 300 races... my best races have come against Nissans and sleeper Turbo Probes/MX6s. One sleeper 180sx had an SR20DET with a nice hybrid turbo that WALKED a 5.0 with I/H/E... was only about 1 length back against my friends GSX.

Got a little off track there... basically as has been stated millions of times, VTEC, and Honda's in general are Incredibly Overrated.

Could not have said it better

Everyone has spoken and it is very obvious that VTEC.....
1.Sells cars
2.Gives a LITTLE more advantage than a non-vtec motor
3.Is highly overrated

 

[EvolvingGST]

Originally posted by 91TSI505


Could not have said it better

Everyone has spoken and it is very obvious that VTEC.....
1.Sells cars
2.Gives a LITTLE more advantage than a non-vtec motor
3.Is highly overrated

Actually ahahaha the only one tha VTec has advantage over if you put it this way is The Mitsubishis, Subarus, Mazda, and the euro and american cars... Cuz the whole Variable Vaulve Timing was invented by oh wait the name says it, by Toyota as VVTi... Also some people noticed that their nissans do it too... Well they have a name for it, its retarded but I dont remember it... So actually many companies have it but Honda marketed it... So its actually not that much of an advantage... And I also feel the true Toyota VVTi is much supperior to Vtec... Im not talking about the crap Corollas im talking abt their real N/A racing engines.

 

[dsm5150]

V-ariable
T-imed
E-ngine
C-latter
:laugh:
anyway,vtec is a good thing.
a friend of mine had a 94 ex civic w/ a gsr swap,lsd tranny,i-h-e,v-afc-ran mid 12's.when vtec kicked in the car would pull like non other.

 

[AlecW81]

Cuz the whole Variable Vaulve Timing was invented by oh wait the name says it, by Toyota as VVTi
______________________________________________________
Posted by EvolvingGST

Actually if you read all of the posts you would have seen my earlier post revealing that GM developed VVT first in the 70s on Caddys.

 

[onegee]

i posted about it before, but i had a friend who has a 93 hatch w/ GSR swap that would walk 75-85% of the cars on this board. It ran 12.4 BEFORE a skunk2 ECU, CAI, VAFC and i believe he gutted it more. Hell he freakin car destroyed me on the freeway. IT'd walk vetts and supercharged mustangs all day long. freakin hilarious watching him race. Although a vast majority of honda owners are slow, its the small percentage who know what they're doing you gotta watch out for.

ps. he blew the motor racing a car. he was changing CD's to put on "Racing Music" and didn't watch the revs (10k +) ..hahaha...BOOM.



btw, it was a worked GSR. Jun internals and crap like that with type r cams i believe. it was tuned in cali before coming to hawaii.

 

[EvolvingGST]

Originally posted by AlecW81
Cuz the whole Variable Vaulve Timing was invented by oh wait the name says it, by Toyota as VVTi
______________________________________________________
Posted by EvolvingGST

Actually if you read all of the posts you would have seen my earlier post revealing that GM developed VVT first in the 70s on Caddys.

hehehe my bad anyways... they just took what was out there and marketed it ^^; I also heard a weird thing VW had something like that too... Oh well...

 

[4g63tc]

I hate to burst your bubbles, about vtec, infact honda had originally copied mitsubishi's MIVEC Motors which were quite capable motors for being naturally aspirated.

ex. 4g92 MIVEC 1.6L belted a nice 175whp in n/a trim ( commonly found in JDM n/a lancers.)

not bad considering it was engineered before the honda vtec was created, and does almost exactly the same thing lobe shift at high rpms. hmmmmm. something to think about.

T.C.

 

[AlecW81]

Ummm... why don't you read all the posts... even if Mitsu brought out MIVEC before Honda brought out VTEC, they still weren't the originators of that technology.

 

[4g63tc]

Could i be wrong? maybe, but then again nobody else even mentioned the MIVEC, you know why? cause not many people know about it, toyota was definately not first. now i have to go and start digging up old sportcompacts to find the article. can't find the article.
but here is a website for you. it was released to the public in 1993 ( same year as the civic si HB huh?)http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/docs6/history/html/gdi.htm
as for thr gm motor the only one i'm aware of is the failed attempt at the 8/6/4 variable displacement motor
t.c.

 

[4g63tc]

I am right about the GM motor, you even said it in one of your posts, ( ' used on caddy's") the engine DID NOT change to different cam lobes, it would shut off cyclinders for added fuel economy.

V8 on initial acceleration, switch to V6 for moderate cruising, and lastly to a V4 to maintain highway speeds. IT did this by using external selenoids that would disable the fuel to the individual cyclinders.

Most owners of this engine converted them over to Permanant v8's by disabling this function.( but that was the 70's) GM is currently redeveloping the concept with good results for their truck division.

My dad had one, and he said it sucked!.
and this motor can be compared to a Honda vtec, or vvti? how the hell would a b16a run on 2 cyclinders? check your tech!

T.C.

 

[4g63tc]

Just a little more research, to concrete my idea that the Mivec was the predecessor to VTEC. same website as above, 1990-1999 section
1992
Production of the seventh generation Mitsubishi Galant, featuring front & rear multi-link suspension and a newly developed V6 engine.
Launch of the second generations of both the Libero (Mitsubishi Lancer Station Wagon) and the Galant 5-door Hatchback.

Production of the 3rd generation Debonair, a Japanese domestic market luxury saloon car.

Launch of the Emeraude, a Galant-based 4-door hardtop for the Japanese market.

The Lancer Evolution was released.

Launch of the fifth generation of medium-duty trucks, the Fuso Fighter.

Production of the new "Aero" series large-sized bus.

Development of MIVEC (Mitsubishi Innovative Valve timing and lift Electronic Control System) engine, and INVECS (Intelligent and Innovative Vehicle Electronic Control System), a vehicle control handling system featuring fuzzy logic.

Mitsubishi Motors Europe Design Studio inaugurated.

Mitsubishi Motors again the patron of the month-long Bregenz Opera Festival in Austria.

Mitsubishi Pajero (Montero) wins the prestigious German automobile award "Das Goldene Lenkrad" (Golden Steering Wheel). Also in Germany, Pajero named "Best Off-Road Import" in the Best Cars in the World 1991~1992 awards sponsored by Auto Motor und Sport magazine. In France, 4x4 magazine names Pajero "4x4 of the Year 1991~1992." In the U.S., Space Wagon/Space Runner wins "1992 Easy Maintenance Award" from Home Mechanix magazine. Motor Vehicle, Japan's leading truck and bus journal, names Mitsubishi buses "1991~92 Bus of the Year" in all three size categories. INVECS awarded the "Technology of Year 1992~93" by RJC (Japan Car Research and Journalists Conference).

Pajero (Montero) entered in 1992 Paris-Sirte-Cape Town Rally,finishing 1-2-3 overall and taking class honors in Modified Production Class. Pajeros finish 1-2 in the Atlas Raid and 2-3-4 overall in the 1992 Paris-Moscow-Beijing Cross-Country Marathon Raid. Group N Galant VR-4s win rally championships in Finland, Sweden, Canary Islands and Cyprus. Group A Galant VR-4s win European Rally Championship, 1992 Asia-Pacific Rally Championship and 24th Cote d'Ivoire Rally, a WRC event

and that was one year before the sohc 1993 civic si HB w/vtec
sooooo, what now? do i have to prove that toyota vvti came later?
T.C.

 

[1gawddsm]

Originally posted by heavyD


VTEC in the B-series engines kicks in at 5500 RPM up until 8200 RPM. DSM turbos kick in at 3500 RPM and die off after 6000 RPM. I have owned both engines and both have their pros & cons. The 4G63 is faster though.

Wrong, VTEC does not engage at the same point on all B series VTEC motors. In a GSR VTEC engages at 4400 rpm (can slightly vary depeding on the several conditions that must be met for vtec to engage) and the secondary intake runners open at 5800 rpm. On a Type R there are no secondary runners because it is a normal single runner intake manifold not a dual stage manifold like the GSRs. VTEC on a type R engages at 5800 rpm (roughly).

also the redlines of a GSR and Type R are not the same the type R can rev 300 rpm more than a GSR.

 

[Jason84]

yeah but them damn ricers need the vtec kick in for there fart can muffler... i know a girl in town here who has a b16a swap in her 92 civic. when that vtec kicks in its just friggin loud as hell.

then there is another guy who has a crx with a b16a swap. his redlines at like 10.5 i think it was. you gotta hear that thing well hear it and not see it move is what i mean .

 

[Nomad666]

Originally posted by onegee
i posted about it before, but i had a friend who has a 93 hatch w/ GSR swap that would walk 75-85% of the cars on this board. It ran 12.4 BEFORE a skunk2 ECU, CAI, VAFC and i believe he gutted it more.

To the people that keep bringing engine swaps to the argument(don't mean to pick on you, you're just the last one) why not have your friend race a 1990 mirage with a 4g63T swap, see if he can come anywhere near him. Why is it that the fastest honda are always crx's and civic's, cause they're light. Lets see a 2002 prelude pull those kinds of times without a turbo, not saying its impossible but you just dont see many out there.

P.S. I didn't mean to start this Honda V.s our cars thing, just wanted to know if I could beat him again. The race will be this week, i'll keep ya'll posted.

 

[91TSI505]

FU(K HONDAS!!!!!!!!






Sorry

 

[heavyD]

Originally posted by 1gawddsm


Wrong, VTEC does not engage at the same point on all B series VTEC motors. In a GSR VTEC engages at 4400 rpm (can slightly vary depeding on the several conditions that must be met for vtec to engage) and the secondary intake runners open at 5800 rpm. On a Type R there are no secondary runners because it is a normal single runner intake manifold not a dual stage manifold like the GSRs. VTEC on a type R engages at 5800 rpm (roughly).

also the redlines of a GSR and Type R are not the same the type R can rev 300 rpm more than a GSR.

Wrong. I had a del sol VTEC with the B16A engine and the VTEC solenoid kicks in at about 5500 RPM and redline was 8200. My brother has an integra GSR and his VTEC kicks in at about the same with an 8000 RPM. 4400 RPM!!!! WTF are you talking about.

For all the people out there who don't know how VTEC works (pretty well all of you) is as follows: Honda VTEC cams have 8 lobes on each camshaft. Four are smaller for low rpm drivability and the other four are the VTEC lobes which are larger. The engine computer tells the VTEC solenoid valve to open (about 5500RPM). This sends oil pressure to the end of the intake and exhaust camshaft, moving them over so the larger cams are now engaged. The driver will notice a change in the engine note as well as a gain in power. It isn't a gimmick as my del sol bone stock could run a 15.8 1/4 mile. You show me a stock N/A car with just 1.6 litres displacement that can do that. Don't confuse the B-series engines with other VTEC SOHC engines in which the VTEC only applies to the intake cams.

I know the streets are full of Honda's with their fart can exhausts that are all show and no go but give Honda credit as they were the first manufacturer to apply variable valve timing to mass produced vehicles. Everyone else came after, Mitsubish (Japan only cars), Nissan (300ZX TT first), Toyota last. If anything those Celica drivers are the most annoying as they pull up in their 1.8L VVti engine and think they are king until their find themselves sucking DSM exhaust from my car.

 

[vertGST]

v-tec is way overrated. two of my friends have rsx's. one is a type s and the other isn't they were arguing for about 30 minutes on wether or not the regular rsx had vtec. like i meant really going at it. driving each others cars and all. i have honestly gotten beaten by two hondas. one was 92 gutted integra with b16 motor in it. that was the night i got my car. rematched him about a month later and lit him up. another was a turbo hatch on the highway. he pulled ever so slowly from me and thats after i ran his caravan of friends. once again. vtec is overrated. oh and BTW i am still bone stock

Brendon

 

[WhiteCharisma]

Originally posted by AlecW81
One sleeper 180sx had an SR20DET with a nice hybrid turbo that WALKED a 5.0 with I/H/E...

dude theres no such as a 180sx in the united states

 

[Nomad666]

Originally posted by WhiteCharisma



dude theres no such as a 180sx in the united states

I've seen them here in Canada.

 

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Nomad666

I've seen them here in Canada.

I'm in Canada and there isn't a 180SX here or any other part of North America.

 

[Nomad666]

Bro I dont know about Calgary but here in T.O i've seen a couple.

 

[vertGST]

my friend has a nissan nx with a sr20det in it. first time i have seen that combo.

Brendon