balance shaft delete help please

[dap1991gsx]

hey guys i need your help if you wouldn't mind i just recently got my project 1991 gsx running but im not having like any oil pressure and its safe to assume its on account for the fact that i removed the rear(lower) balance shaft and just built the motor with out it now that ive looked into it i see they sell kits like this

Balance Shaft Eliminator Kit Install

but my motor and car is now fully built and i dont wanna tear it all apart again is there a way i can get oil pressure without taking my just built motor as apart?

help please i built this car from nothing its beautiful and surprisingly enough even on first start up runs like a gem strange because anything that can be deleted is and im running an aftermarket fuel management, bov, and mbc besides that im waiting for all other bolt-ons i have for after its been running while

 

[Alex7747]

when you deleted the balance shaft, did you rotate the bearing to block the oil passage?

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Deleting the balance shaft the PROPER way usually results in an INCREASE of oil pressure. As Alex7747 stated, if you did NOT rotate the balance shaft bearing after removing the shaft itself, u will have very low oil pressure.

 

[SlickPyro]

If you removed the rear balance shaft (I'm assuming you mean the one run by the oil pump) did you put a stub shaft in? If so what kind? OEM is best. Ebay ones have been known to have no oil hole and lock up over time.

Also so you still have the front shaft run by the belt?

If you deleted the rear shaft run by the oil pump you Do Not have to spin the bearing because the rear balance shaft bearing gets oiled thru the balance shaft.

If you deleted the front balance shaft (the one run by the belt) you Do have to spin both bearings so it blocks off the oil holes from the engine block as those two bearings get oiled from ports in the block. They sell block-off bearings that have no oil hole or you can just take a regular balance shaft bearing with an oil hole and just spin it so you make sure the oil holes don't line up.

 

[bmoha7321]

And it's not leaking oil? We need a bit more info. Slickpyro is on the right track if you removed the rear balance shaft and provided good info.

 

[dap1991gsx]

okay so first off thank you for getting back to me now whats going on is i removed the one connected to the oil pump i simply removed it and altered nothing i removed it because the bearing to it was in my oil pan and the slot it went into seemed too honed out to just replace the bearing and yeah the other balance shaft is still there with the belt running to it and everything, now what were you guys talking about with rotating the bearing? if you could just tell me your opinions of what to do with this the easiest and most reliable way thank you

 

[bmoha7321]

hmmm.... can't just remove it. Leaves a wide open hole straight out from the oil pump. You need to replace rear balance shaft with stub shaft which then blocks off oil flow from the pump.

You can... if need be abandon the front balance shaft in place and remove the belt to it. You don't want to run just the front balance shaft. But you have caused a major problem by just removing the rear balance shaft. Do not run the car in this state. Oil starvation to the max

 

[Alex7747]

okay so first off thank you for getting back to me now whats going on is i removed the one connected to the oil pump i simply removed it and altered nothing i removed it because the bearing to it was in my oil pan and the slot it went into seemed too honed out to just replace the bearing and yeah the other balance shaft is still there with the belt running to it and everything, now what were you guys talking about with rotating the bearing? if you could just tell me your opinions of what to do with this the easiest and most reliable way thank you

you have to get a stubby shaft!! time to pull that front case off. good luck.

 

[DlaSerM]

With removing the rear balance shaft I wonder how your oil pump gears did not grind up your front case. Without the rear balance shaft in place or a stub shaft there is nothing to center or support the rear oil pump gear. So without either shaft, balance or stub, your pump gear is just left floating around in your case. Personally I dont see how you could run the car by just pulling the balance shaft out of the oil pump without a very noticable noise, seizing the oil pump, or something. I wouldn't start the engine until you tear it down and fix it.
If your oil pump and everything is actually ok when you tear it down I did a shaft delete before by cuting off the rear shaft making my own stub but if you do this you have to block the oil hole that runs through the center of the shaft. I just welded mine closed. I ran that engine for three years with no problem from the shafts. The front one I comepletly pulled out and eliminated. Look up the balance shaft delete how to one here. There is plenty of info on it.

 

[bryanwheat]

I am not quite sure i understand what you did. Did you actually remove the rear shaft and non reinstall a stubby in it or the shaft? If you did do that and tried to start it than the oil pump is junk.

 

[bmoha7321]

This is just an odd post. The more I think about it the more I cringe. Didn't it make some horrible noises when you started it?! How long did you run it before you realized no oil pressure? This could kill a motor. At the least kill a front case & oil pump and put metal particles thru the bottom end. Which will kill it eventually.

 

[honda_burner]

tear it down and fix it!

 

[dap1991gsx]

thank you guys and no strangely enough the engine sounded awesome like no strange noises. Reason for that maybe that i pre-lubricated everything before i built the engine back up but i barely ran it and i personally doubt anything is wrong with the front face or the oil pump but when i rip it back apart ill take a look i have a spare or two laying around i think. Now i know you guys have told me what i should do but can someone just simply tell me exactly what to do to properly take action for my lower BS mistake and also what i should do with the upper one attached to the belt thank you i just want to pre-plan my next step for this car before i go and start working on it like if i can do it in the bay or if i should disconnect all my work and pull it back out to do this
thank you again please keep it coming

 

[vingasoline]

You can pull the front cover without removing the engine. At least inspect the oil pump, and make sure it's not damaged. Then put the stub shaft in. Don't get the shitty eBay one without the oil hole. And then remove the balance shaft belt. You can leave the front shaft in.

 

[Alex7747]

thank you guys and no strangely enough the engine sounded awesome like no strange noises. Reason for that maybe that i pre-lubricated everything before i built the engine back up but i barely ran it and i personally doubt anything is wrong with the front face or the oil pump but when i rip it back apart ill take a look i have a spare or two laying around i think. Now i know you guys have told me what i should do but can someone just simply tell me exactly what to do to properly take action for my lower BS mistake and also what i should do with the upper one attached to the belt thank you i just want to pre-plan my next step for this car before i go and start working on it like if i can do it in the bay or if i should disconnect all my work and pull it back out to do this
thank you again please keep it coming

okay for the rear shaft, what i had best success with was getting the oem shaft out then i cut it about 1/3 of the way out so that it still goes into the oil pump. but once you cut the shaft there will be a hole in the middle of it(used to pass oil through it). just weld the hole shut and you have that one covered.

the front shaft is a bit easier, just remove the belt and the shaft. once you have the shaft out there will be two bearings in the block. knock them out and rotate them so they block the oil ports. once you have that done to BOTH the bearings you can assemble it all back together.
hope this helps good luck

You can pull the front cover without removing the engine. At least inspect the oil pump, and make sure it's not damaged. Then put the stub shaft in. Don't get the shitty eBay one without the oil hole. And then remove the balance shaft belt. You can leave the front shaft in.

don't leave the front shaft in.

theres no point in halfassing something when it comes to your motor....i learned the hard way

 

[bryanwheat]

If you didn't install the stub or a balance shaft in the rear and you have started it one single time, the oil pump is going to be trash, everything in it will be trash. You will also likely have some bearing damage somewhere due to lack of any oil pressure whatsoever. What made you think that it was ok in the first place to just pull the shaft out and run it?

 

[dap1991gsx]

okay thank your very much you have answered my question. Ill inspect it, i have a spare front face and oil pump in case mine did get damaged nothing else should be on account its freshly built and i lubed everything up. I figured while building the engine i only used my own self knowledge which all worked well besides removing the BS incorrectly it seemed to me at the time the oil pump would be able to work properly with the shaft just removed
thanks guys this site is very helpful i was blown away by the amount of reply's i was able to receive in such a short amount of time

 

['97boostinGST]

I still don't understand why, if your motor was completely "built", you didn't just spend and extra $55 or so on a OEM BS delete kit and took both out since the motor was out?

 

[LunarEclips]

i dont think he understood the part about clocking the bearings either. You dont need to weld the hole closed like ALEX7747 mentioned for whatever reason. Just take the old bearing out and buy a new one from the dealer for 12$ and put the new bearing in making sure it closes the oil passage hole. Besides, from experience of watching someone else weld inside of a block with oil still in it, welding is a BAD IDEA. Also, the stubby from the dealer is only 30$. Just buy the stubby. In fact, just buy the entire balance shaft eliminator kit which is only around $40ish.

 

[Alex7747]

i dont think he understood the part about clocking the bearings either. You dont need to weld the hole closed like ALEX7747 mentioned for whatever reason. Just take the old bearing out and buy a new one from the dealer for 12$ and put the new bearing in making sure it closes the oil passage hole. Besides, from experience of watching someone else weld inside of a block with oil still in it, welding is a BAD IDEA. Also, the stubby from the dealer is only 30$. Just buy the stubby. In fact, just buy the entire balance shaft eliminator kit which is only around $40ish.

i never said he should weld the oil port in the block shut....i said the balance shaft. if you've ever cut a balance shaft in half, you'll notice its hollow. and if you weld the hole(again, the hole in the balance shaft itself) you won't need a stubby shaft..and in my opinion its a lot more reliable.
i never said to weld anything in the block

 

[bryanwheat]

i never said he should weld the oil port in the block shut....i said the balance shaft. if you've ever cut a balance shaft in half, you'll notice its hollow. and if you weld the hole(again, the hole in the balance shaft itself) you won't need a stubby shaft..and in my opinion its a lot more reliable.
i never said to weld anything in the block

I used to weld them. Now i just run a 7x1.0 tap thru the end where it was cut and thread a bolt into it right, with loctite, cut it off flush with the end of the shaft and stake it in with a punch. No heat to distort the shaft.

 

[okm12346]

my shaft stubby has an oil relief hole. I dont think welding it shut is the best idea

 

[bryanwheat]

my shaft stubby has an oil relief hole. I dont think welding it shut is the best idea

You are talking about the hole in the groove. We are talking about something totally different. We are talking about taking the stock balance shaft and cutting the end off of it about the same length of the stubby shaft. There is a hole that goes thru the shaft for the bearing surface on the shaft. The stubby DOES NOT have this hole thru the center of it because it wasn't meant to have oil flowing thru it like the original. This is why you weld or plug the stock balance shaft. If you don't than you will loose a little bit of oil pressure.

 

[okm12346]

I guess its too early for me. I know what you mean.

Either way, when you cut the balance shaft its not round. it kind of has a lobe that needs to be shaved to a round shape for less vibrations

 

[6damian6]

i dont think he understood the part about clocking the bearings either. You dont need to weld the hole closed like ALEX7747 mentioned for whatever reason. Just take the old bearing out and buy a new one from the dealer for 12$ and put the new bearing in making sure it closes the oil passage hole. Besides, from experience of watching someone else weld inside of a block with oil still in it, welding is a BAD IDEA. Also, the stubby from the dealer is only 30$. Just buy the stubby. In fact, just buy the entire balance shaft eliminator kit which is only around $40ish.

From what i remember you don't have to do anything with the bearing in the back, since that rear shaft gets fed through the hollow part down to the bearing there is no oil hole on that bearing.

For the op, you have a lot of work ahead of you for this simple mistake. You have to pull the oil pan off and then the front case. Inspect the the front case and gear, but as bryanwheat has mentioned that whole assembly is probably junk since there was no shaft to support the gear.

Also, you must use REDLOCTITE on the stubby shaft bolt or it will come loose and you and torque to proper spec, and as others have said make sure to get the correct stub shaft with the groove in the middle.