2G AWD Conversion/Swap Guys Enter Here - Advanced. [Merged 2-07]

[TSiGoesPsSsSst]

Can somebody point me in the right direction as far as wiring my fuel pump? I see a bunch of different diagrams throughout this thread but I'm not very sure which one to use for my application.
The car I am doing the swap to is a 97 tsi,
My donar car was a 99 GSX. I cut the fuel pump harness out of GSX before I junked it.

Also that write up on automotivearticles.com states that you must do the wiring before putting the tank and subframe in the car. Is there any truth to that, or can I do the wiring from up top inside the car after everything is already in? I'm pretty much ready to raise the tank and subframe into the car.

 

[ShadowTalon]

I currently have a 95 awd talon with side impact damage and can get my hands on a mint 99 spyder gs 2.4ltr. The 2.4ltr motor and tranny will be pulled before I pick up the shell. I have read that the engine and tranny should bolt right in but I am curious if the rest of the vfaq for the AWD swap will be the same or if there a differences since I am not starting with a GS-T shell.
Or I can keep the motor and tranny from the 2.4 for $200 more and use the block for a future project after it is repaired (not sure yet what the block needs). Either way I still have the same questions.

Edit - supposedly the spyder just needs a new wiring harness.

 

[gofer]

That's a good question but off the top of my head it would at least need a new engine wiring harness and ECU, plus the rest of the AWD swap.

If/when you do get a new wiring harness for the car I recommend you keep it within the same generation as the chassis, so if it's a '96 Spyder get a 2ga harness or if it's a '97-'99 Spyder get a 2gb harness.

 

[ShadowTalon]

The Talon is mine so everything is there (except door, fender, rear quarter panel due to accident). I had planned to swap the 7 bolt engine, transmission, and the awd engine harness over. Can I use my old awd engine harness or will I need a new one?

 

[gofer]

If the Spyder you're swapping it into is the same generation as your 2g Talon then everything should swap over just fine. I only suggest using the same generation of engine harness simply because you may find little things no longer work, i.e., your airbags (SRS).

 

[TSiGoesPsSsSst]

Ive got a good one I drew up for someone who PM'd me about it, never posted it in here. See if this clears up some confusion, this is how my car's wired up and I've got a functioning level gauge too. I'm not familiar with that connector you're holding either, maybe because it's a Spyder it looks different? The donor GSX had ABS and I think there was a connector like that on top of the subframe that looked similar.

This also included my fuel pump rewire...

Here's the attached version so it doesn't disappear with my flickr account someday. Below is the link to the larger copy so you can enlarge it if you need to.

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Like someone posted earlier, I ended up going with this diagram and found that I had two Yellow/blue wires also. A little confused as to what the other yellow/blue is for. Hopefully I used the correct one.

 

[boost97gst]

Gofer: So you're saying if i have a 95 harness it wouldnt work with a 97 ecu? My 97 WAS an auto at one point and still has the auto harness, its just butchered. I could repair it and use connectors off the 95 harness when swapping but the 95 harness is like mint condition and it sure would be nice to use it.
Im only using the 95 tranny/tcase/rear end/TCU etc, everything else is 97. I havent found a clear cut answer on this.

 

[ShadowTalon]

If the Spyder you're swapping it into is the same generation as your 2g Talon then everything should swap over just fine. I only suggest using the same generation of engine harness simply because you may find little things no longer work, i.e., your airbags (SRS).

The AWD Talon (in my profile pic ) is a 95 and the Spyder I believe is a 99. 2ga vs 2gb. I guess it depends on what little things. I'm pretty sure abs and srs were not working on the talon anyway so no loss there. Also have an emissions delete done so don't care about any of those sensors either. Guess I should have mentioned the Talon has an Evo 8 ecu as well.

 

[boost97gst]

My concern, and yours, would be the MPI/MFI(??) relay(s). I think 2ga and 2gb were different. If that were the case then it wouldnt really be plug n play.

 

[eclipsh]

Having done more than my share of mixing and matching engine harnesses from various generations and models I'd strongly suggest you just buy the matching year harness and sell your 95 harness. If you're up for a little work I believe it is fairly simple to change a 2.4 GS harness to work with a turbo ecu. Just injector wire alterations, a knock sensor and maybe a few other small things. Likely the better route over using the 95 harness.

 

[ShadowTalon]

Good info. Thanks guys!

 

[gofer]

Gofer: So you're saying if i have a 95 harness it wouldnt work with a 97 ecu?

No, you can use a A/T harness on a M/T car. I'm saying that it's wise to stick to the model generation 2g that the chassis is so...

- If you're doing a AWD swap on a '97 (2gb) and you need a new harness don't get a engine harness from a '95 (2ga) because you'll have strange issues and vise-versa.
​

I ran my '97 A/T GS-T harness for years after I did the M/T AWD swap (mind you I was running a '95 ECU for ECMLink) and everything worked fine. It wasn't until I did a tuck with a '95 harness and installed it that I was having strange issues, like the SRS being on indefinitely and random misfire CEL's.

SO, get a harness for the correct year of turbo 2g it doesn't matter if it's FWD or AWD just 95-96 and 97-99.

 

[boost97gst]

Thank you!

I guess since i already have the 97 AT harness in the car ill just fix it up. I was planning a tuck anyway when everything was removed. Ill use the 95 connectors that i need but not the whole harness.

 

[gofer]

...be mindful of where your unused A/T connectors are laying in the engine bay. I didn't PLAN on a tuck, my car decided I needed a new wiring harness on its own. My unused A/T connectors worked their way down to the passenger side axle and decided to yo-yo string around it going 75mph which didn't end well for the car.

 

[ShadowTalon]

The 2.4 gs wire harness is already out of the car so it might be an easier route to modify it. Would I need to use a few connectors from the 95 harness? Once I get the car running I can just sell the 95 ecu (have to check if it is eprom) since I use an Evo 8 ecu. From the previous posts on the thread, it seems the hardest part of the awd swap is cutting into the convertible top frame to access bolts. I don't do any welding but I know plenty of people that do. Should be a fun project for a few weeks.

 

[gofer]

Personally, I'd take a trip to the store and buy a pack of razor blades, a roll or two of blue painters tape, a bunch of zip-ties and a permanent marker. Lay both harness out on the ground and cut all the wire loom off using the razor blade. While you're doing it zip-tie the harness together so it maintain's it's shape and use the blue painters to label every single connector. Doing this you'll be able to compare both harnesses and all the connectors so you get an idea of what connectors need replaced and what wire(s) need extended or shortened.

I know you're doing this to perform an AWD swap to your N/T Spyder but I recommend starting a new thread documenting your work and any help you get from our site members. That way it's easier for others to find in the future and it doesn't clutter up the AWD swap thread...

 

[boost97gst]

...be mindful of where your unused A/T connectors are laying in the engine bay. I didn't PLAN on a tuck, my car decided I needed a new wiring harness on its own. My unused A/T connectors worked their way down to the passenger side axle and decided to yo-yo string around it going 75mph which didn't end well for the car.

My current unused AT stuff is zip tied up. Man, that must have sucked for you though!


Edit: Im starting the long swap today. Almost got the engine out. I dont know HOW people do a full tuck! The harness and especially the relay/fuse box relocation is overwhelming just to think about. Im gonna give it a go though. Ive got a 100% stock 95 harness(AT) and an unhacked MT harness as well. Bought that thinking i would use it. Oh how plans change with these demon cars!

 

[Doubleot]

Can those unused A/T plugs be cut out without giving any other issues?

 

[gofer]

Yes sir. From what I could tell when I removed all the wire loom from my chewed up A/T harness (after it went into the axle) was that the connectors on the engine bay side went directly to the connectors on the TCU side, besides a wire or two, so it would be very easy to make it a M/T harness.

 

[GRNDSM]

Corey,

Are you sure that SRS is connected to the ECU harness? Being very familiar with a 2G ECU (from my Summit project), I do not see a pin that connects the two. I am pretty sure that SRS is a standalone system. Speaking of which, I am just deleting all of the SRS crap from the car, those 90’s air bags are ridiculously dangerous. But I might regret it when and if I ever go to sell the car…

As for mixing and matching 2G “generations”. I do not think that it is a big deal, just make sure that you keep proper MPI relays. BTW, even 95 and 96 MPI relays are different! 95 uses one piece (1G style) MPI relay, where as 96 uses two smaller relays. I am not sure what 97-99 uses, but just keep the MPI with the harness, “it” knows what to do

 

[gofer]

There was an additional connector/sensor on the '97 M/T engine harness that I didn't have on the '95 M/T engine harness and ever since I installed the '95 harness the SRS light has been on. When I did the install I never pulled the airbags or disconnected the SRS ECU either, so I'm not sure what could have tripped it. I always thought it was some kind of impact sensor that the 2ga harness didn't have, now that I open the FSM though there's no such thing. You're right, the SRS system is isolated on the '97-'99 and it's probably the same on the '95-'96 too. I can't verify that since I only have a '97 FSM and a '99 FSM.

The MFI/MPI relays are for sure different, luckily the 2ga harness I got had the MFI/MPI relay still connected but I didn't realize the '95-'96 changed it too. The starter switch relays are also different between the 95-96, 97-98, and 99 harnesses as well as the emissions sensors, the CAS connector, and the fuel injector wiring is inverted because of the inverted cam signal.

I guess now I can eliminate the harness differences being the reason for my SRS light but I still recommend sticking to what I said earlier, if you get a new harness get one from the same model year if you can or AT LEAST 2ga/2gb.

Thanks for pointing that out Leon.

 

[GRNDSM]

NP

SRS sucks on many levels Just disconnecting and then reconnecting an air bag will trigger the SRS light and then, you need a special scan tool to reset it (most cheap tools will not reset it). So you could have done something very simple like that to trigger it.

 

[dfootedsm]

So I am doing this swap with a 97 to a 98 I have a manual donor car which I was going to gut because I knew the car started and gave no issues. So based on this discussion I dont have to change the cabin harness? what about the clutch safety start wiring? and the reverse light sensors?

 

[GRNDSM]

Are you converting it from automatic to manual? I just did that and used the 5sp engine harness. It is about 2-3lbs lighter and has all the needed connectors for the 5sp.

However, I am yet to run my car

 

[dfootedsm]

@GRNDSM thanks that was the direction i was leaning