Auto vs Stick

[edgar7654]

how much faster is stick vs auto in a gst...
ive only driven standard this would be my first automatic
thank you and god bless you

 

[TSimage]

This thread is still going because its a topic on a forum on the internet and thats what happens. It is also still going on because people like you keep making remarks that can be taken offensively. I worded my post very respectfully, yet you say I make no notable point even though, in my opinion, I make the only point necessary to address the topic of this thread. Why would I take the time to post if I thought I wasn't adding to the topic? Do you see when I joined? Do you see how long it has taken for me to accrue the measly amount of posts that I have? I don't make posts for the hell of it.

You need to get it through your head that I am talking about the MAJORITY of DSMs, not the fastest. I literally made that as clear as possible. You are arguing with me over something I am not talking about. Also, go ahead and try to go to a dealer and get an automatic Viper SRT-10, Corvette ZR-1, GT-R, Shelby GT-500, or Nismo 370z. Go ahead and let me know which cars come with paddle shifters. Go ahead and compare those to the automatic transmissions that come with DSMs. Go ahead and call all of those cars terrible cars that don't prove anything. Go ahead and just dismiss that fact that I said it comes down to preference and/or driver ability. Go ahead also dismiss the fact that I never even said that anyone could shift a manual transmission faster than an auto. Just keep coming up with something to go against what I am saying in some way and just prove what I already said about points and counterpoints. Go ahead. Do it.

So let me get this right... We are talking about which is "fastest" yet you don't compute that the "fastest" DSMs are Auto.

Your argument is mute. Period. There are MANY examples of cars that were once manual that have gone Auto such as the fastest current AWD guy Jeff who was once 5spd who actually went faster switching. The same applies to anyone else. Its not a magic recipe. A Bone stock Auto transmission is capable of single digits with FREE MODS. Period. Point blank, nothin else. You'll need a top end 5spd with a high end clutch just to see that and to maintain it for more than 2 runs you'll need the axles, drive line etc that goes along with it.

Your amount of post maters not. It can not determine whether you are correct or not, all it does is do exactly what you mentioned, prove you don't post that much. Hell, look t it this way, you could have been a few post lest avoiding posting in here.

And by no means feel you are being "attacked" regardless of the tone this may come off in, I'm typing it with a smirk on my face. I understand people have opinions but the point is there is still a right and wrong.

Fact - The fastest current DSMs are Auto
Fact - Automatic transmissions can be shifted just like a manual
Fact - The fastest Manual guys use Dogboxes which emulate an Auto and don't require the use of your foot or the clutch
Fact - Autos can go faster for less, roughly $8,000-13,000 less that is..
Fact - Breaking $15,000 worth of drive train parts that WILL eventually break is not fun
Fact - Missing gears and losing races or losing because of poor transient response is not fun
Fact - Over revving and destroying your entire long block is not fun

Opinion - Dogboxes are annoying to drive on the street and so are Twin disc

Fact - 1G>2G

I suppose that settles it all.

Oh btw, the cars you mentioned are manual because they are built for "track" use, it was already mentioned which is superior and already mentioned that sequential paddle shifters are closer related to Autos than manuals but that's a whole 'nother argument.

Anything else you'd like to ramble about, please do. But before either of us waste each others time, have you even ever built an Auto? If not then I suppose there is no reason for me to further the discussion because your argument would then be fueled by ignorance.

On a side note Tanro totally and absolutely shut down rock1t... Poor guy. !

 

[ramsack]

People bringing the whole "manuals are just fun to drive because you can shift them" or "manual is necessary on a road course or autox" don't understand that you can make an automatic shift just like a manual, without needing a stupid clutch, and an automatic will always shift faster than a human can shift a manual.

Yesterday after work it took me almost an hour to travel like 5 miles. That is the point of an automatic transmission in the real world. I have a stock clutch and still my leg got tired. I rarely hit 2nd gear so I had to ride the clutch in 1st. I rue going from an automatic DSM to this manual every day I drive.

 

[Memphetic]

....it's pretty obvious to tell who has an auto in this thread. Defending them as if their child is about to be killed. At the end of the day, it's just plain boring to drive an automatic.

 

[Dr Funkenstein]

Wow. I can't believe so many people into cars (on this forum) like driving a slush-box over a stick. I'm not denying that a slush-box does have some advantages over a stick, but after learning how to drive a manual, automatics are just boring to me! Nothing is more fun then dropping that bi*** into 4th on the highway and blasting off.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

I would love to have an auto GSX someday. I would hook it up with flappy paddle shifters and retain all the fun.

My opinion on this whole thing is that stock to stock, a manual would probably be faster in a 1/4 mile, but once you hit a certain power level, you just can't compete with the speed of an auto. The gears are always meshed, so there's literally NO delay between shifts.

 

[ramsack]

The only reason the automatic would be slower in the 1/4 mile stock for stock is that the automatic has a 13g vs. the manual's 14b, the automatic will be a slight bit heavier, and there is a constant slight power drain from the oil pump in the automatic. I'd say two cars of equal power AND equal weight, the automatic will be faster.

 

[1badpurple]

Nowadays the trend seems to be in dsm's that most that "drag race" are converting to auto. It is simpler, tougher, and capable of running in the single digits with just a line pressure mod. For example tho i have a 1ga converted to a auto, and i also have a 1gb and 1ga that are stick. Bar none the auto with the same configuration is faster. My friend has a 1ga with similar mods but a larger turbo and cannot out-launch me, or run faster times in the quarter. The automatic is far more durable that the manual is. By the way I also know quite a few people that autocross auto cars (you can shift a auto too you know). For everyday driving auto is more enjoyable by far, but the stick are quite fun when their ISN'T any traffic..

 

[PurpSalad]

isnt the difference like 190hp on the 13g(autogayyy) to 195hp on the 14b(stickkk)? I think their relatively the same shit. id say depending on what your trying to make you should make that deicision. if your trying to go fully drag beast(fwd id say trade to awd) then go with automatic. But something tells me your not just gonna make that car track only, and it'll be your dd, therefore stick is better. in my opinion.

once auto shifts into gear both will pull pretty even man. depends on driver though. u might spin more with the stick if ya dont know your car

 

[dsmrollerz90]

well see i always thought that a m/t would be faster bcuz you can launch with as much tourque as you want. untill, i seen that the wyldkardz dsm is an auto trans. and im not sure but i belive that he is in the 10's? low 11's. im not sure. but he likes it and obviously its fast so its really just up to the way that you are planning on modding your engine/trans.

good luck.

 

[98dsmkid]

reading all this WOW!!!! I still choose my manual over an auto...my friend and i always race at a track...hes runing a 16g auto and im running a small 14b.....and i smoke him everytime...maybe ### my turbo spollz faster then his....but definately from 2nd to 3rd im gone...he's still at my doorside tho... better than a honda ...

 

[dsmtalon2008]

I wouldn't rev on you, and i would own you off the line. And I'm pretty sure, i didn't build my car to race honda's. That's like the special olympics there.



That's the problem. Drag racing should be fun, there shouldn't be bracket racing, it should all be heads up. Also, if you can't shift fast enough in a straight line, then you shouldn't be driving.

Auto's are like the training wheels on bikes.

I know that most 'racers' use auto's, because they are incompetent at driving in a straight line for a 1/8th or a 1/4.

When I watch a speed shop owner run 7.50s in a manual and stay consistent, then that means there should be no need to run an automatic.

Honestly, how hard is it to drive in a straight line down a track?

Obviously this guy hasnt made much power, which im sorry to hear. But you start making 5-600 whp and you will soon see why automatic > manual.

Let me know when you rip out a stock manual transmission everytime you take the car out.

 

[johnmarines]

reading all this WOW!!!! I still choose my manual over an auto...my friend and i always race at a track...hes runing a 16g auto and im running a small 14b.....and i smoke him everytime...:

Put a shift kit in that auto and it would be a different story all together!

 

[LucasEnglish]

Not going to read through all of this and probably what I am saying has been said but here goes.

I have been racing DSM's since 2000 and have 1000s of passes on a 5spd. 9.6@144 FP3065 91 talon, 11.2@124 Frank 2 on pump and meth in 2004 in my 92 talon, 10.8@131 FP red in my 92 talon pump meth, 12.3@110 in my wifes 92tsi race gas 14b,stock injecotrs ABS full weight, 10.8@125 in my EVO VIII 3300lbs stock turbo E85.

After learning how to make the Auto work right in the last 2 years my EVO will probably never see the drag strip again. After racing the auto the manual trans seem plain stupid. I think the manual cars are fun on the street but suck at the strip.

Many new DSMers have no idea what and art form it is to drive a high hp AWD manual car.

Why the Autos are faster if setup right

-better 60fts no broken parts just did a 1.35 on stock stock case axles etc
-shift way faster
-absolutely no loss of boost on the shifts. Even with a Dog box you have to unload the trans to shift either with the clutch or revlimter which means there has to be 0hp to the trans for a split sec to unload it
-with the right converter the car will stay at its peak hp all the way down. ware as with a manual the needed RPM range is much larger so you 800hp car might only be 600hp at 7k ware as with the Auto you stay at your 800hp all the way.
-No anti lag or rev limiter that are very hard on the motor

Some racing from last weekend that were autos
This is the most amount of FAST ER customer cars ever and its all because of the Auto. I bet most of you would puke knowing the millions of $$ put into DSM's and EVOs over the years to never run the times because either the Driver or Drive train is not up to the task.

-Jeffs purple Auto 8.8 best last weekend 8.6 best ever
-My FP68hta 16g stock appearing 10.1
-Mikes Full weight 35r 1g 10.3@135
-Trevors Black 1g auto 9.4 and a best of 9.1
-Tims supra does not count as DSM but still Auto 8.6

YouTube - Team English Racing 2010 BOTI Woodburn OR 8sec DSMs 9sec Hondas

YouTube - Going for a ride in the little auto 10.3@132mph on Snow tires ECMLink V3

 

[Aceman]

So let me get this right... We are talking about which is "fastest" yet you don't compute that the "fastest" DSMs are Auto.

Your argument is mute. Period. There are MANY examples of cars that were once manual that have gone Auto such as the fastest current AWD guy Jeff who was once 5spd who actually went faster switching. The same applies to anyone else. Its not a magic recipe. A Bone stock Auto transmission is capable of single digits with FREE MODS. Period. Point blank, nothin else. You'll need a top end 5spd with a high end clutch just to see that and to maintain it for more than 2 runs you'll need the axles, drive line etc that goes along with it.

You aren't getting this right at all. Are you even reading my posts? Did you skip some parts for no reason? I NEVER ONCE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THE FASTEST DSM'S NOT BEING AUTO'S. You keep dismissing everything I say and backing it up with all these reason's why auto's will always have the fastest 1/4 mile times. I don't know how much more clear I can make it that I am not arguing against that, yet that is all you are bringing up in your argument. You say my argument is mute, and then come up with all these reasons that in no way refute what I am saying.

The original post says:
"how much faster is stick vs auto in a gst...
ive only driven standard this would be my first automatic"

Obviously this question lacks enough specific information to address if this guy is going to have anything anywhere near a single digit FWD dsm, so I am left with the assumption that this guy will never even see 300hp just like the majority of DSM's. What i am saying is that the MAJORITY of DSM's with sub 300hp will be faster with a manual given that the driver is good enough. This takes into account the assumption that the majority of dsms will never see over 300hp, let alone get automatic transmission upgrades. Can I make it more clear? If you take 1 DSM that makes less than 300whp and do passes with it as an auto and as a manual with an experienced driver which setup do you think will be faster? Maybe the guy does want to use it at a circuit track. He would want to go manual. Maybe he wants a single digit 1/4 mile with his dsm. He would want auto. Maybe he wants a car to go from 20-100 on a highway. He would want manual. This is literally my last post on this subject. And I know you aren't attacking me. You seem to be acting just like every mechanic I have ever talked to who just always assumes whatever someone else says about cars is wrong.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

The only reason the automatic would be slower in the 1/4 mile stock for stock is that the automatic has a 13g vs. the manual's 14b, the automatic will be a slight bit heavier, and there is a constant slight power drain from the oil pump in the automatic. I'd say two cars of equal power AND equal weight, the automatic will be faster.

So you agree; two completely stock same year AWD DSMs, the manual would win out in a 1/4 mile race?

 

[TSimage]

You aren't getting this right at all. Are you even reading my posts? Did you skip some parts for no reason? I NEVER ONCE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THE FASTEST DSM'S NOT BEING AUTO'S. You keep dismissing everything I say and backing it up with all these reason's why auto's will always have the fastest 1/4 mile times. I don't know how much more clear I can make it that I am not arguing against that, yet that is all you are bringing up in your argument. You say my argument is mute, and then come up with all these reasons that in no way refute what I am saying.

The original post says:
"how much faster is stick vs auto in a gst...
ive only driven standard this would be my first automatic"

Obviously this question lacks enough specific information to address if this guy is going to have anything anywhere near a single digit FWD dsm, so I am left with the assumption that this guy will never even see 300hp just like the majority of DSM's. What i am saying is that the MAJORITY of DSM's with sub 300hp will be faster with a manual given that the driver is good enough. This takes into account the assumption that the majority of dsms will never see over 300hp, let alone get automatic transmission upgrades. Can I make it more clear? If you take 1 DSM that makes less than 300whp and do passes with it as an auto and as a manual with an experienced driver which setup do you think will be faster? Maybe the guy does want to use it at a circuit track. He would want to go manual. Maybe he wants a single digit 1/4 mile with his dsm. He would want auto. Maybe he wants a car to go from 20-100 on a highway. He would want manual. This is literally my last post on this subject. And I know you aren't attacking me. You seem to be acting just like every mechanic I have ever talked to who just always assumes whatever someone else says about cars is wrong.

Ok so it now sounds like you are making general assumptions to make your point right?

Regardless, you are wrong. I would assume there is a chance that those mechanics are probably right as well..

The Auto is faster in a straight line PERIOD. End of subject. Doesn't matter if we are talking about 300whp or 800whp. Its only been proven many times.

 

[Tanro]

Geez what is with you people. Go to a drag strip. A real one, not the local honda kid ricerboi fanclub, and just count how many cars are running a manual gearbox vs an automatic. Betcha 11/10 of the v-8 guys are running an auto. Might have a sport shifter, or ratchet shifter, or it my be a 2spd powerglide. Guess what its an auto. Autos simply don't have the torque transfer issues that manuals have.

Straight Line auto wins unless you are driving your mom's Saturn. Hell these days if you have flappy paddle gearbox, then you will still win going around in a circle or on a roadcourse. Me, I wish the Evo IX had a flappy paddle that worked correctly. I would get one of those once I get back from the sand box instead of an MR edition.

 

[dsm-onster]

So this silly argument comes to who has the least power?¿?¿ 250whp is 250whp. Wow, such a *low* number can easily be altered to net equal results to the wheels after drivetrain loss even with a stock 14b and stock fuel and charge cooling. Thus the difference simply becomes a failsafe gearbox easier on the rest of the drivetrain and is far faster while more consistant. . . What a joke the manual is turning out to be.

 

[jwahl16]

I have an automatic and it does make driving very easy. All of my car friends think stick is where its at. I was planning on buying a stick as my next car to see what its like but my question is: do they make "sport shifters" for dsms like all the new cars have? ### i know autos handle power better then sticks

 

[Tanro]

Sport shifters? As in flappy paddles on the stearing column? Or short throw shifter for a manual gearbox? Or ratchet/bump style shifters for autos?

Yeah you can get a shift kit for an auto. No none has done a flappy paddle setup for a dsm.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

I would really like to do the flappy paddle mod on a DSM, but I don't have one to experiment on. Any volunteers in the WNY area with an auto DSM?

Bring it to my shop and just pay for parts and you can be the first!!! I'll do it just for fun.

 

[jwahl16]

I think i mean flappy paddle. Like you flick the auto shifter to the left or right and it changes gear. That way you could have the fun/control of a manual with the strength of an auto.

Colt, what kind of parts would one be looking at for somthing like that?

 

[Dr Funkenstein]

I want to ask you guys a serious question. Aside from drag-strip times and living where bumper-to-bumper traffic is the norm, can you honestly say, as car enthusiasts, that an automatic is more fun to drive than a stick?

 

[mezzio]

I want to ask you guys a serious question. Aside from drag-strip times and living where bumper-to-bumper traffic is the norm, can you honestly say, as car enthusiasts, that an automatic is more fun to drive than a stick?

boosted cars, absolutely. highly boosted cars, no contest. One of the best feelings in the world is being under constant boost.


My 2 cents on this subject having owned a plethora of auto and manual cars over the past 12 years:

Manuals are fun, you get to control your engine speed, build boost up quickly while rolling, can corner faster due to being able to downshift rather than use the brakes... they are awesome on road courses. however, manuals suck in traffic, they suck in town, they suck when they break... and it doesn't take much to break something since... theres more parts. All it takes is holding that clutch in the friction zone just a little to long one to many times, and theres $200 down the drain, or how about having extra fluid to keep an eye on... you know, the fluid in the reservoir you usually cant see becuase it's hidden behind a bunch of junk.

Automatics, the dreaded boring car... put it in gear and go. No thinking, no worrying. However, in stop and go traffic, there's less strain on your body and brain by having to think any harder after a long day of work. In town you pull up to a stop light, hit the brakes, wait for green, then go... no more. And unless you're neutral dropping the car every day for no reason, you're probably not going to break it any time soon... hell, you usually don't even need to worry about checking the fluid... EVER (although this isn't really recommended). They suck on road courses, unless you have one of those new fangled Ferrari autos which react in .098 of a second.

I started on DSM's, my first car was a 97 gst spyder, it was an auto... it was boring. After DSM's I went to Supras. Owned 3-4 different Supras (one wasn't really a car, more of a shell for me to take parts off of). ANYONE running faster than 11's in a Supra is running an automatic tranny, usually a TH400 or 4le80 with shift kits (paddle shifted supra you say ). A lot of people also running above 600hp are also turning to autos because it's a lot easier to transfer the power to the ground

The opinions above are mine, and only mine... and maybe a couple other peoples, but generally mine

 

[Dr Funkenstein]

I do see where you're coming from. This is my first DSM, but every single other car I've owned the automatic transmissions are far more unreliable then their manual counterparts. And its not really that hard to put the car in neutral at a stop light, it takes all of 1 second to do. The only time I've ever regretted owning a manual was when I was stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic on the highway in Cape Cod summer traffic. And when you drive a stick, shifting becomes second nature, so you don't really notice it after a long hard day at work.

Funny anecdote: My friend was telling me about this guy he works with. He's 40-something and has driven manuals his entire life. The first time he had to drive the work truck, which was an automatic he was seriously confused. "I don't get what to do? How do I get it in first?"