ARP Lube application question.

[v8s_are_slow]

Too many threads to search through and wasn't seeing the answer I was looking for.

Do the studs need to have lube applied on the block side as well? I understand the nut side needing it, but 1.) the studs are threaded in finger tight into the block so why would it need lube on that side and 2.) when it threads in with lube on them, it oozes out and really don't want it getting between the head/head gasket/block. I figure that since the lube doesn't compress, if it gets between the surfaces it could cause sealing issues of the gasket.

I checked ARP's website but it just said to apply lube. It didn't say where. Anyone know? Just wanna be sure before I get my motor and everything else back together. Thanks.

 

[bryanwheat]

You do not need it on the threads in the block, only only on the top of the stud and the nut.

 

[Imback]

Lube both sides

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Okay so I have 1 answer for one side, 1 answer for both sides. So guess I'm still in the same boat for right now, scratching my head.

 

[sax_man]

Why not ask ARP?

 

[kt239]

I only put it on the top side of my studs..

 

[BigBeans]

You can use a thin coating of oil on the side going into the block, and use the real lube on the other side.

 

[talonDSMerr]

Lube the top of the stud, the inside of the nut, and both sides of the washer. The bottom of the stud that threads finger-tight into the block doesn't need any lube.

 

[TJCTalon]

I was always taught you dont want oil or lube in the block where the studs go.

If you have oil in the holes, you want to hand tighten them, then wait 20mins and re tighten them to allow oil to move into the threads so you can seat the stud all the way down.

YOU DO NOT WHAT A FLOATING HEADSTUD. That is not good.

Ive always only used lube on the top part of the stud, washers and nut.

 

[BogusSVO]

I have and Do lube both ends, the block end gets a very small amount, If you have it pushing out between the stud and block, you used too much

 

[LiquidX]

I have read both as well, just as this thread has stated. IMO lubing the block side would be beneficial. The ARP lube reduces friction to give an accurate torque reading. You are to lube the threaded and metal-on-metal contact surfaces to reduce the friction. The block side is no exception, you are putting it in hand tight, and when tightening the nut, do you honestly thing the stud won't move some? You don't want the friction there so lube for piece of mind of an accurate torque reading.

Besides, Bogus is a machinist so I would listen to him.

 

[Yamaharyder600]

Just the top of the stud, block side isn't necessary.

 

[BogusSVO]

Also if they are brand new studs out the box,

Step torque them, 30/60/90
then loosen them
step torque them a 2nd time
loosen them
step torque them a third and final time

This "pre stretches" the head stud

The amount of stretch is a very tiny bit, but needs to be done

I do this to ALL ARPs, Head studs, Main studs and rod bolts

 

[99gst_racer]

I never lube the block side of the stud. It wouldn't hurt to do so, but there's also no benefit to it. The only force is stretch on the vertical axis. The threads in the block do not affect the torquing/loading of the stud (provided that the stud is tight and all threads are clean). The only purpose of lube is to overcome friction while torquing, and the only friction while torquing head studs is at the nut.

Also if they are brand new studs out the box,

Step torque them, 30/60/90
then loosen them
step torque them a 2nd time
loosen them
step torque them a third and final time

This "pre stretches" the head stud

I agree that torque cycling is a good practice for new fasteners (ARP actually recommends 5 cycles with their old moly lube, and they claim cycling is not nessacery with the new Ultra-torque lube), but the purpose of cycling is not to pre stretch the stud. The purpose is to even out the friction value at the threads. Friction is at it's highest level the first time a fastener is tightened. As you cycle torquing and loosening, the level of friction will continue to reduce itself and eventually level out at a constant.

 

[LiquidX]

Would the torque cycling still be required if the block threads were cleaned and chased? Or am I thinking wrong so it would then just be allowing the nut and thread area to "match" up by causing minute changes to the threads?

 

[99gst_racer]

Would the torque cycling still be required if the block threads were cleaned and chased? Or am I thinking wrong so it would then just be allowing the nut and thread area to "match" up by causing minute changes to the threads?

Yes. Like I said, the threads in the block have very little at all to do with the torquing process. Torque cycling is to level out the friction between the threads that are "moving. So on head studs, it would be the nut and the threads are the top of the stud, as the bottom of the stud remains stationary.

 

[LiquidX]

Makes perfect sense. I think I'll still lube up the block side a tad however for the little bit of movement that will happen.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Also if they are brand new studs out the box,

Step torque them, 30/60/90
then loosen them
step torque them a 2nd time
loosen them
step torque them a third and final time

This "pre stretches" the head stud

The amount of stretch is a very tiny bit, but needs to be done

I do this to ALL ARPs, Head studs, Main studs and rod bolts

90 FT/LBS to 7 bolt studs as well? I just got my head back from Cylinder Head Services (sorry, was gonna get it to ya but my beater ride just isn't dependable to drive way over there and didn't wanna chance shipping it to ya). I'm planning to put the head back on tomorrow and get this thing pieced back together. Also, didn't think ARP's were torque to yield. These aren't new studs though either. A buddy of mine gave them to me.

 

[Boostinsideways]

Arps aren't tty, but your still gonna get some stretch.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Arps aren't tty, but your still gonna get some stretch.

Yeah but these are used studs so not thinking it's necessary.

 

[99gst_racer]

90 FT/LBS to 7 bolt studs as well?

BogusSVO's post was for 6-bolt (12mm) studs only.

For 7-bolt (11mm) studs, use moly lube and go 30-60-80.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Thanks!

 

[CanamDean]

Also if they are brand new studs out the box,

Step torque them, 30/60/90
then loosen them
step torque them a 2nd time
loosen them
step torque them a third and final time

This "pre stretches" the head stud

The amount of stretch is a very tiny bit, but needs to be done

I do this to ALL ARPs, Head studs, Main studs and rod bolts

One just needs to try this out only if you have a “real “ rod bolt stretch gauge. Most available read .001 inch. Our whole world is .001. As an aerospace machinist and competition engine builder I was forced to build my own. I used a Mitutoyo .0001 indicator and with a properly calibrated torque wrench cycled the rod bolts three times with ARP ultra torque lube. Target torque was 75 torqued wrench set to 78 which equals 75 after calibration stretch was .0050-.0055. First cycle saw .004 stretch, second .0047, third .0052. Free length of the bolts did not change .0001.

Please let me know how a .001 indicator is legitimate for measuring .0001. In the aerospace industry you would be dismissed if you attempted to use the needle width as an increment.

ARP states a rod bolts that yields .0001 should be replaced!

 

[curt-s]

Kind of an odd thread to dig up.
Also you have to state explicitly what rod bolts you were torquing to 75 otherwise some might get the impression that this is normal.

 

[CanamDean]

Kind of an odd thread to dig up.
Also you have to state explicitly what rod bolts you were torquing to 75 otherwise some might get the impression that this is normal.

ARP 7/16-20