Another Intake Question

[TooFast]

I have been doing a lot of research on the web and wanted to get opinions from different people who have used or are using CAI's. I have looked at several examples:
AEM (CAI0
Weapon R (Dragon, V2, Secret Weapon)
Injen
PIT
Cheap Ebay Kits
I am buying a new down-pipe and cat-back on Friday and would like an intake as well. I don't mind spending the money on a quality part and am looking for opinions, facts and different peoples experiences. Most of my mods are suspension. I am running a 75 wet shot and heard that these two mods will really help benefit the nitrous. The more info I can get the better.

 

[BigRand]

Okay boyz and girls.....I know that I"m coming off like an ass in recent posts, but when he said he did research on the web, does that mean he tried google, and it didn't link him to this website, where in this forum, it has a sticky that has the search search search then post methodology, which would lead him to the many threads on this subject


(note: original poster, i'm not mad at ya, just venting, nothing personal, don't be discouraged from asking questions.)

back to the topic

Ebay intake pipe + K&N filter is all you need.

What would go nice with your wet kit, is a walbro 255 fuel pump for only $100 bones. Just a little cheap insurance.

 

[TooFast]

I have searched this site actually. I was more or less looking for people that may have used multiple brands. I have looked at ebay, I even bought one on ebay for my 3g. I was pretty disappointed with the fit and finish. While performance is key, it also has to look good. I don't mind paying for brand names. Most of the time your not just buying the name you buying the quality behind it. I was looking for differences in fit and finish, durability, filter quality, and whether or not the internal piping theory (such as in the AEM V2, or Secret Weapon R intakes) are worth the money or if it's all hype. I know I want a CAI setup not a short ram. Ebay quality isn't going to work on this. If I had a tighter budget that is definitely the way I would go but that is not the case right now.

But I am going to take your advice on the fuel pump for sure. Any advice on upgraded coils?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Internal piping theory? AEM and others claim to create tuned intakes, but with flexing couplers and other unaccountable variables, I call BS. Even if it is true, what gains would you honestly expect to see? 1-2HP, if that?

I think the only time you need to really be concerned with brand names and inlet geometry is when you've invested $10,000 in other N/A parts and the intake is the last spot to eek out another few horsepower.

The same goes with the coil. You haven't exceeded the capabilities of the stocker by far.

Just get an eBay shorty with a K&N filter and be done with it. Trust me, you won't notice a difference either way you go about it.

 

[Shadow98]

Yeah, but he needs the Cold air not the short ram. How else is he going to suck water up while driving? ...

 

[Locke]

You can get CAI's on eBay as well.

+1 for eBay. It is a tube with a filter on one end. Durability is hardly an issue, unless you intend on smacking it with a hammer every other day. They are not made of paper. Finish is usually fairly nice on the eBay intakes, they only thing they lack is the pretty sticker that tells everybody you have too much money to waste. Most of them fit well enough, but I hear you may have to shove your battery as close as you can get it to your shock tower. Just be sure to swap the filter with a good one, such as a K&N, AEM Dryflow, or a foam element filter.

If most of your friends drive riced up Honda's though, you may want to go with the big dollar intakes though, so they don't dog on you for being so sensible.

It is your money, and in the end it essentially comes down to price.

edit: for safety (though I personally see this as less of an issue, but for all I know you enjoy driving through 2 feet of water) invest in an air bypass for whatever CAI you get.

 

[chris712vt]

just something I've wondered before... doesn't a bypass valve/filter on a CAI negate the purpose of having the "cold air" filter away from the engine heat? Just seems to me that if the engine is sucking in air through your intake, the first available air source is the bypass valve, then the real filter at the end of the pipe, thus you're still sucking in that same hot air as a short ram.

Anyway just a thought of mine. I've used a CAI by itself, with a bypass valve, and just a SRI. So I'm not trying to prove any point, just wondering how much of a benefit a CAI w/ bypass has over a SRI.

to the OP - you may say you don't care about the cost of a name brand intake now, but trust me, a year or two from now you'll want to make bigger and better modifications to the car, ones that really do require a decent bit of money, and you'll kick yourself for spending $200+ on what is essentially a $20-50 (ebay pipe and good filter) with a name on it. Especially if you're just getting rid of it all together to go turbo or something.

 

[TooFast]

Yeah, but he needs the Cold air not the short ram. How else is he going to suck water up while driving? ...

I just wanted to personally thank you for this completely irrelevant comment. I guess I could just avoid driving like a complete dumb-ass and not have to worry about sucking up water.

And if the point of your comment is going to be "go get a cheap intake on on ebay" , just go ahead and move to the next thread. Not one response has been a reflection of my original post. The only piece of useful info was the fuel pump upgrade and it was already in my plans

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Wow... I believe you said you were considering several options, one of which was an eBay intake. Then you asked for our opinions and experiences, and many of us graciously offered just that, despite the fact that this question has been answered time and time again.

With that said, almost *every* post is relevant to your original post, you just don't want to listen to advice we're giving you. Please understand that this advice is not unfounded, and that most of us are experienced with the 420A platform. If you still feel the same way, then I'm afraid we just don't have the time to regurgitate answers to ungrateful forum members.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

I'd go for an Ebay style. I've done alot of research on CAI's and you can build one for the price of an Ebay version, that would work ALOT better then an expensive AEM or Injen. AEM only does about 2 layers of ceramic coating on the outside, nothing on the inside. The main objective of a CAI is to get cold air into the engine as safely as possible. I made an intake for my Honda Accord and tested an AEM and an INJEN next to it... drove around with all the intakes for a few hours in the hot sun, the intake I made left the intake manifold alot cooler then the AEM and INJEN. I ceramic coated the outside and inside.

Ebay versions... I doubt they have any Ceramic coating, but for the price, its allready built and you can do your own ceramic coating.

 

[BigRand]

Okay you know what I'll will share my story about intakes.

Back when I first got my GS, I had no idea what I was doing, I knew that I wanted a CAI, because thats what you get first....right people???

Well the pipe, came, and it was a little dented, but I worked with it. The way it was made it didn't go infront of the wheel like the AEM's do, and didn't come with a bolt to hold it down there.....well sure enough a couple months later I got a hold of a bypass valve to minimize the risk of water injection (seattle weather)....Well a week later, coupler came off lost the lower half of my intake setup...oh well

So I had some cash, and bought an AEM CAI, obviously easier on the eyes, and it having it bolted up correctly also helps, The biggest difference I noticed was that it was a one peice design, (plus one for AEM there)..but beyond that its all the same.

A month after buying that, I went turbo, and never looked back.


SHORT VERSION:

Basically with your nitrous setup, and with what you've done, its really up to you on what you buy. I like AEM, but seriously, they are way over priced.


try this out for other options...this is how real tuners roll..

http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/airbox.html

 

[Shadow98]

I just wanted to personally thank you for this completely irrelevant comment. I guess I could just avoid driving like a complete dumb-ass and not have to worry about sucking up water.

And if the point of your comment is going to be "go get a cheap intake on on ebay" , just go ahead and move to the next thread. Not one response has been a reflection of my original post. The only piece of useful info was the fuel pump upgrade and it was already in my plans

It was just my way of saying I don't like CAI. Completely irrelevant??? You asked for opinions and I gave you mine. Whatever... it's your car and money.

 

[totaleclipse_05]

PVC piping and rubber couplers from your local Home Depot FTW, that's how real DSM'ers do it.

 

[Locke]

just something I've wondered before... doesn't a bypass valve/filter on a CAI negate the purpose of having the "cold air" filter away from the engine heat? Just seems to me that if the engine is sucking in air through your intake, the first available air source is the bypass valve, then the real filter at the end of the pipe, thus you're still sucking in that same hot air as a short ram.

A quality by-pass valve won't open until a certain amount of vacuum is reached, like would happen should your filter stop flowing enough to meet the demands of the motor. The vacuum would pull the flaps on the valve open, by-passing the filter element, and preventing water (if thats what clogged the filter) from being pulled up and into the motor. While closed though, no warm air will enter through it. These valves can open, and close...

The cheap eBay by-pass valves, such as coupled with the DarkForce intake from AutoSquare, is simply another small filter, placed higher in the engine bay. You may get some warm air in the intake stream because of this, (it is always open) but it will still serve it's purpose of by-passing the main filter should it stop flowing.

 

[SurrealDSM]

i agree with everyone else on this forum ive had a CAI i got for dirty cheap brand new only thing i did after i had some spare cash was slap on a AEM Filter and bam there was the difference and i do have the AEM bypassvalve and no warm air seems to sneak in...its bolted up and connected with no problems here a pipe is a pipe a filter is what matters IMO

 

[dr1665]

I just wanted to personally thank you for this completely irrelevant comment. I guess I could just avoid driving like a complete dumb-ass and not have to worry about sucking up water.

And if the point of your comment is going to be "go get a cheap intake on on ebay" , just go ahead and move to the next thread. Not one response has been a reflection of my original post. The only piece of useful info was the fuel pump upgrade and it was already in my plans

Here's why you're going to find that the DSMers who know what the hell they're talking about suggest the generic short pipe intake.

The greatest improvement in power from an aftermarket intake comes from removing the restrictive factory airbox. NOT FROM COLD AIR. NOT FROM "RAM AIR EFFECT." The air below the car is often hotter than the ambient air outside.

Where is the intake on an Indy or F1 car? As far off the ground as possible. Why? Watch ANY car race and you will hear someone mention "track temperature." The road surface is soaking up heat all day and radiating it all night. It's made even hotter by thousands of cars driving across it as well.

If the air a CAI scoops up off the highway surface is 120* compared to the 130* under your hood, guess what. You're sucking 10* cooler air into a section of metal pipe that's right next to the head and likely closer to 150*. This is why "cold" air intakes were sometimes called "cool" air intakes, just before smart tuners started waking up and ignoring the mass media mindf*ck propaganda peddled in tuner magazines. You know why all the coolest show cars in those magazines have name brand intakes and exhausts? BECAUSE 99% OF THEM ARE BUILT BY SHOP OWNERS WHO WANT TO SELL YOU ALL THAT SHIT.

IF you gain anything over a generic short pipe by using a full CAI, you might see 2whp. Find anyone who had their car stall out when they hit a big puddle in the dark or tried to creep through one really slow and ask them if they thought the potential for such a pathetic excuse for a gain that can only be realized on a dyno was worth the terror of "Is my engine completely f*cked now?"

The only time a full CAI should be considered would be, as Velocita and myself have stated many times now, when the car is completely built, sparing no expense, and after tunning on the dyno, you find that you've made 198whp all motor and you really want to hit the $200 mark. Then it's worth a try, but there's no way in hell I'm leaving a soda straw attached to my $6000 engine on the street. No, sir. F*ck that.

So, back to basics, if you're going to come on here and ask for advice from people who've been doing this for years and who know what's up, then it's in your best interest to listen and take jokes with a grain of salt. Nobody has said anything in this thread that doesn't reflect their A) wanting you to get more performance for your money or B) protect your investment.

In the end, it's a pipe. A complete exhaust system should cost no more $400 and that includes a REAL high flow cat at $100. If you buy some $500 catback and a $200 CAI, then you've just pissed away more than $200 that you could have used for something else. If you need to tweak an Ebay shortie to fit the way you like it, use some of the money you just saved to pick up a Dremel tool and cut that shit down to where you want it. Use some of the money you saved to buy some heat reflective tape and wrap that thing up. Use some of the money you saved and your new Dremel to install a NACA duct on the hood or fender and an isolation box around your filter to bring fresh air in and keep radiant heat from the engine out. Don't buy into corporate marketing bullshit. Pipe is pipe.

 

[Locke]

CAI's seem to get you pretty hot, eh?

 

[BigRand]

Don't buy into corporate marketing bullshit. Pipe is pipe.

YYYYEEEEAAAAAHHHHHH BBBBBOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!

Fight the power!

 

[TooFast]

Wow, I guess sometimes you just have to get your head bashed in to come around.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

WTF? Are you serious?

 

[BigRand]

Wow, I guess sometimes you just have to get your head bashed in to come around.

head bashed in??? Man this is tame. No one here has made fun of you, called you stupid.

People here are just trying to enlighten you, most of us have been where you are, and spent more money that we should have, on one particular part.

You asked a question, we gave you SEVERAL answers, its not our problem you don't like the answers. But I bet if you call up AEM they'll give you the answers your looking,backed up with tampered dyno numbers, but will give you piece of mind right.

Anyways, If you come across another issue when tuning/working on your dsm, come here and do your searching and go over to 2gnt.com and search some more, if you still don't have an answer, post a thread, we will respond with our correct, tried and tested and repeated answers, and it will again be up to you to decided.

I've been where you are, I went against the grain on something that cost me a little more then an intake (cough emange cough) and I paid out the ass for it later.

 

[dr1665]

CAI's seem to get you pretty hot, eh?

CAIs are a crock of shit. Sure, they make more power, but it's such an insignificant amount of power that I absolutely feel they are not worth the much increased risk of water ingestion.

OP - Nobody is bashing on you. We're bashing on aftermarket companies that brainwash people into spending a shitton of money on something they simply do not need. When it comes to 2GNT DSMs, unless you rebuild the engine, turbocharge, supercharge, or add nitrous, there's no bolt-ons available on the aftermarket that will get a 2GNT beyond about 125whp.

About 125whp can be had with intake, exhaust, udp, and cam gears. No magic Ebay chips. No SAFC is needed. It's just tried-and-true automotive theory. Altogether, it's less than 20whp gain. So the question you really have to ask yourself is, how much do you want to pay for less than 20whp?

Now, if you've got mad fabrication skills, you could whip up a true long tube header (LTH) or individual throttle body (ITB) set up for your car and probably pick up twice the power, but those are not products available for this platform, so they'd have to be made. I wouldn't pay $50 for an intake, but I'd certainly pay $500 for an ITB set up. That's the big time right there.

Note: This is not to say that 2GNTs are not worth it. In addition to the meager power gains, said mods will change the sound and feel of the car, producing a more enjoyable driving experience, while providing an owner with a taste of working on his own car, prior to getting more deeply involved in the project. Your getting involved and having fun with the project is what's most important. We'd rather see you get the power, but get more of your cash in your own pocket, man.