1G Another disengagement issue...but this time, EVERYTHING is new...

[92nolatist]

Ok so I installed my Shep stage 3 trans and Southbend SSX clutch with Kevlar disk and ACT Streetlite flywheel, along with NEW: OEM clutch master, slave, SS clutch line, fork, pivot ball, TOB, and a rebuilt and welded pedal assembly. Now heres the issue, the pedal grabs about an inch off the floor and the adjustment rod is threaded ALL the way out (cant thread out anymore because it will fall out the the nut thing). Shifting is notchy and sh*tty.

Personally, I dont want to ruin my brand new clutch and expensive ass f*ckin transmission so I called Shep today and talked with Trevor. He said hes only heard of this situation 2 or 3 times; he suggested to check to make sure my fork is not hitting the trans when the clutch is depressed, because that could cause an issue. I checked tonight and its not, plenty of room before hitting. He said if thats OK, then put in a longer slave rod even though its not recommended, thats all he could think of.

So since everything is BRAND FREAKING NEW, the clutch shouldnt be doing this. Im pissed off because I replaced everything so I wouldnt trash my new trans....

If I have to put in a longer rod, I will, but Id rather not. Im trying to think of anything else it could be Master push rod too short maybe? I bought everything from ExtremePSI so I know its not some garbage junk placed in a mitsu box.
Please people, help me out. Thank you.

 

[pauleyman]

What is the step on the flywheel? What does the clutch manufacturer say it should be? If you can't answer these two questions that might be a problem. Doesn't matter that both parts were new.

 

[92nolatist]

The flywheel step height is .610, and Im not quite sure what you mean on the second one. Shouldnt it be to the factory specs regardless?

 

[3kgt2nv]

i would start with the simple things. rebleed the slave and check the adjustment vs the shep video. also who welded the pedal? if it was just a random friend or shop the may have messed it up.

 

[pauleyman]

No it may not necessarily be to stock step. You'll have to ask the clutch manufacturer. I have to ask this and I'm not taking a jab. Did you actually measure the step or are you going off what the manufacturer says?

 

[92nolatist]

I rebuilt and welded the assembly myself, there was nothing that could have gotten messed up, it was a simple procedure.

I personally measured the step myself with a good dial caliper. I work in a shop so I do everything myself and Im very meticulous about how everything is. Ill contact Tim Zimmer and ask him, thats who I bought the clutch from, via TMZ Performance.

 

[DSM Chase]

make sure you fix this before you go boosting down the street gear banging, If not you will find that your synchros will be shot very soon, speaking from experience sir. good luck, Same problems with my Stage 3 with a Twin disc.

 

[pauleyman]

dial caliper will not give you a good measure. You need a depth mic. I went through this more than a decade ago.

 

[92nolatist]

I'm definitely not banging gears, shifting as easy as possible. Infact, I shouldn't even be driving but my truck is inop right now. I'm gonna call Southbend and find what they suggest for a step height. If it is, infact, different then stock; then I'm pulling trans and taking my flywheel to my machinist.

 

[LiquidX]

Take a picture of the clutch fork orientation as it is now.

 

[pauleyman]

Take a picture of the clutch fork orientation as it is now.

Agreed.

 

[T is for TURBO]

I'm kinda going through this right now myself also. I have Brand new rebuilt TMZ trans, South Bend clutch. Engagement is right off the floor, clutch is adjusted out to just before the bleeder shut off. The trans is a little notchy, however, when I picked the trans up from Tim, he did say that because it was a fresh rebuild it will be tight and a little notchy at first. I have bleed the clutch twice. The first time I know I had air in system because the slave was leaking a little bit. I replaced the crush washers on the slave line and re bled the line. Still seems a bit off, but I'm not confident that I have all of the air out of the line.

Have you tested to see if the clutch is dragging at all? Put the car on jack stands so all four wheels are off the ground, put the car in first gear, push the clutch to the floor and rev it up to 7k to see if the wheels spin? Mine does not drag.

How much pedal pressure do you have?
Could you elaborate on your definition of notchy? Do you have to try a few times to get in gear? Is it easier or harder to shift while the car is moving?

Also, have to replaced your shifter bushings?

 

[LiquidX]

Jacks Transmissions LLC — Clutch Drag Kills Synchros!

I still want a picture of your clutch fork position without the pedal depressed.

 

[TalonJohn94]

I had the same problem and when everything was said and done I had to extend the clutch rod.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drivetrain-tech/225521-whats-left-low-clutch-disengagement.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drivetrain-tech/204214-no-disengagement-tried-everything.html

I tried to research it a little further and some people suggested that the aftermarket clutch changes the geometry slightly, but enough to run out of clutch adjustability.

I have used this for several years now and everything is still rock solid.

 

[kchaazz]

When you rebuilt the pedal, did you use a new z bar and lever, or just the lever? Did you use the bronze bushings, or were you extremely careful not to melt the plastic crap? Did you tighten the crap out of the nut before welding, or did you omit the nut entirely? Im not messin with ya, just trying to get this out of the way is all.
When you installed the transmission, did you grease the input shaft and were you careful not to let the weight of the tranny bind at all on the clutch as you mated the tranny to the motor?
I think the issue is related to bleeding the slave. Its kind of a pita. I like the tech article on bleeding the master and slave on TRE's site best, so here's a link:

How to Bleed a Hydraulic Clutch - Team Rip Engineering

Also, Id stop driving the car entirely until you get the dragging issue fixed, cause right now your synchros are attempting to slow down the engine instead of the tranny, which is impossible for them to do.

 

[92nolatist]

Pedal pressure feels great, not spongy at all.
It's notchy like it will sometimes crunch a little going in gear, and its not smooth, but it always goes into gear.
Pedal lever and zbar are brand new with brass bushing; I tightened the nut on it then welded the whole deal.
Shifter base bushings are the szymborski kit, the lever bushings are skateboard bearings, the cables are new.
I have not done the clutch drag test yet, but I'm sure its dragging considering the way the trans shifts.
The fork is dead center in the window.

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[ed1380]

I would try to extend the slave rod. Just use a bolt, or something temporary.

I have my fork ball shimmed and run a extended rod. The clutch is great with no drag.

 

[T is for TURBO]

My clutch grabs right off the floor too, probably less than an inch off the floor, however mine is not dragging. That's the only reason I asked.
I assume you do not have the pivot ball shimmed?
What was your method for bleeding the clutch?

I know the feeling. I've got a butt load of money in my drive train too and I certainly don't want to screw it up over some stupid oversight.

 

[LiquidX]

Pedal pressure feels great, not spongy at all.
It's notchy like it will sometimes crunch a little going in gear, and its not smooth, but it always goes into gear.
Pedal lever and zbar are brand new with brass bushing; I tightened the nut on it then welded the whole deal.
Shifter base bushings are the szymborski kit, the lever bushings are skateboard bearings, the cables are new.
I have not done the clutch drag test yet, but I'm sure its dragging considering the way the trans shifts.
The fork is dead center in the window.

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Deffinatly don't drive it until it gets fixed since there are complications occuring that can worsen the more you drive and attempt to shift it.

My personal oppinion is that the fork isn't over enough. I would add a shim to that but an extended rod may help out but that just covers up other issues. Not to mention, when the surfaces of the clutch sandwich wear out, your clutch fork is going to move further to the passenger side causing more issues and have possible issues with the clutch fork hitting the bell housing.

I just installed a new Southbend SS-TZ kit on a new Fidanza friction surface and new fork and ball. I ended up putting 2 washers behind the pivot ball to have proper clutch fork position. My fork in relation to your picture is maybe 1/4" towards the driver side.


This is my opinion and I would like to hear what a transmission tech like Tim or Jack would have to say.

 

[ExtremeTurboSystems]

Deffinatly don't drive it until it gets fixed since there are complications occuring that can worsen the more you drive and attempt to shift it.

My personal oppinion is that the fork isn't over enough. I would add a shim to that but an extended rod may help out but that just covers up other issues. Not to mention, when the surfaces of the clutch sandwich wear out, your clutch fork is going to move further to the passenger side causing more issues and have possible issues with the clutch fork hitting the bell housing.

I just installed a new Southbend SS-TZ kit on a new Fidanza friction surface and new fork and ball. I ended up putting 2 washers behind the pivot ball to have proper clutch fork position. My fork in relation to your picture is maybe 1/4" towards the driver side.


This is my opinion and I would like to hear what a transmission tech like Tim or Jack would have to say.

^ agree. I would try to get the arm over a little passed center. I seen a drawing somewhere that showed where you wanted the arm. I will look some more.

Found it:
TRE TECH TIPS

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Here is a good video as well.
Pivot Ball Shimming - YouTube

 

[T is for TURBO]

I just installed a new Southbend SS-TZ kit on a new Fidanza friction surface and new fork and ball. I ended up putting 2 washers behind the pivot ball to have proper clutch fork position. My fork in relation to your picture is maybe 1/4" towards the driver side.

Interesting, I too installed the same clutch kit.

Next time I'm at my garage I'll have to take a look at where the clutch fork is positioned.

 

[dsm94]

I have the same setup and added two washers as well to get it to line up correctly.

 

[T is for TURBO]

Interesting, I too installed the same clutch kit.

Next time I'm at my garage I'll have to take a look at where the clutch fork is positioned.

I have the same setup and added two washers as well to get it to line up correctly.

Do either of you recall what thickness washer you used?

 

[92nolatist]

I have a very thin washer on my pivot ball that was there when I pulled this trans out a few years ago, so i just put it back on because it was there already and I figured twas supposed to be there.
I bled the system the traditional way using two people, and I bled it shit ton of times because I've read on here about people having issues with only bleeding it a few times. I might just bleed it more, now that I've driven it, to see if any more air is in there.

 

[LiquidX]

Do either of you recall what thickness washer you used?

I used 2 hardware store washers that come out to around the thickness of an ARP head stud washer. Luckily I guessed correctly the first time but you really need to install the transmission without any shims and see how the fork sits. Then you would add shims if needed.

One of the largest factors in my opinion is the pressure plate. Each brand of pressure plate seems to have the fingers at different angles and with the Southbend plate, the fingers were practically level with and not outwards towards the transmission.

That led me to believe that the fork will need to travel further than my previous kit so I added shims and was correct in my assessment.