General Advantage of EPROM vs. stock ECU

[evolvingGS-t]

can someone let me know what the advantages are of the eprom over the stock 97' ecu? my car has been tuned w/ the stock unit and it's running (not right now since i broke it) perfectly. now i have to purchase a new ecu and would like to know that info.

thx

 

[boostedinaz]

can someone let me know what the advantages are of the eprom over the stock 97' ecu? my car has been tuned w/ the stock unit and it's running (not right now since i broke it) perfectly. now i have to purchase a new ecu and would like to know that info.

thx

The only advantage is you can use DSMLink or a Jeff O chip in an EPROM ecu. If you plan on using either one of those then get the EPROM.

 

[alex]

As my understanding and from reading up on DSM Link's website, you can acutally program your EPROM ECU with DSM Link without the actual DSM Link chip in there. The only reason for the DSM Link chip in there is in case your battery dies or you loose power. Basically, you could hook up a DSM Link to an EPROM ECU without even haveing your ECU chipped with DSM Link. Where did I get this info? They tell you right on their site. www.dsmlink.com

The whole "EPROM" meaning in short terms, is that it is reprogrammable.

 

[2deep]

The only advantage is you can use DSMLink or a Jeff O chip in an EPROM ecu. If you plan on using either one of those then get the EPROM.

Come one there 'wiseman',.......theres more than 2 options. You will make a newbie believe that if he doen't get DSMlink that the only other option will be a reflashed chip from this Jeff O guy. This is not the case. You'll have more than just 2 options with an eprom ecu.

 

[alex]

You'll have more than just 2 options with an eprom ecu.

Then explain.

 

[logic]

As my understanding and from reading up on DSM Link's website, you can acutally program your EPROM ECU with DSM Link without the actual DSM Link chip in there. The only reason for the DSM Link chip in there is in case your battery dies or you loose power. Basically, you could hook up a DSM Link to an EPROM ECU without even haveing your ECU chipped with DSM Link.

*sigh* Do you have any direct, hands-on experience with DSMLink? Have you ever tried what you just suggested?

"DSMLink", as a product, is three distinct parts: a custom chip for your ECU (plus a daughterboard with additional memory and a battery), a special cable, and a Java client that you run on your computer (or a PalmOS client, depending on your choice). The client is not useful without either the modified ECU chip, or the cable.

As for other options, you could always reprogram an EPROM ECU yourself (assuming you have the necessary technical skills), or have any of a few dozen people do it for you (Jeff O. being one of them), or purchase DSMLink. Or just skip the whole mess and buy a complete replacement, such as an AEM EMS, Haltech, etc.

 

[1990EclipseGSX]

As my understanding and from reading up on DSM Link's website, you can acutally program your EPROM ECU with DSM Link without the actual DSM Link chip in there. The only reason for the DSM Link chip in there is in case your battery dies or you loose power. Basically, you could hook up a DSM Link to an EPROM ECU without even haveing your ECU chipped with DSM Link. Where did I get this info? They tell you right on their site. www.dsmlink.com

The whole "EPROM" meaning in short terms, is that it is reprogrammable.

You obviously understood wrong.

*sigh* Do you have any direct, hands-on experience with DSMLink? Have you ever tried what you just suggested?

"DSMLink", as a product, is three distinct parts: a custom chip for your ECU (plus a daughterboard with additional memory and a battery), a special cable, and a Java client that you run on your computer (or a PalmOS client, depending on your choice). The client is not useful without either the modified ECU chip, or the cable.

Exactly.

 

[boostedinaz]

Come one there 'wiseman',.......theres more than 2 options. You will make a newbie believe that if he doen't get DSMlink that the only other option will be a reflashed chip from this Jeff O guy. This is not the case. You'll have more than just 2 options with an eprom ecu.

Perhaps I should have clairifed. You can only use DSMlink or a chip, not just a Jeff O chip. Is that better for you? Perhaps before pointing out a flaw you may want to have something to add to the thread other than just a general comment, like what exactly these other options are. After all we don't want to be misleading to the newbies as you put it.

 

[2deep]

Perhaps I should have clairifed. You can only use DSMlink or a chip, not just a Jeff O chip. Is that better for you?

It would very easy for a noob to see your post coming from a 'wiseman' and to think his only options were either DSMlink or a chip made by Jeff O. For the most part they would not know that there are many ppl/vendors/shops that can reflash a chip. I thought I was clearing up the fact that you would be able to get other reflashed chips, not just a chip done by "Jeff O". I was in no way putting you down, just trying to clear things up.

 

[boostedinaz]

It would very easy for a noob to see your post coming from a 'wiseman' and to think his only options were either DSMlink or a chip made by Jeff O. For the most part they would not know that there are many ppl/vendors/shops that can reflash a chip. I thought I was clearing up the fact that you would be able to get other reflashed chips, not just a chip done by "Jeff O". I was in no way putting you down, just trying to clear things up.

Understandable.

 

[dnhieu]

i think you guys are getting a little off topic.

what about other options such as studder box, no fuel cut, and perfect idle with larger injectors that he would not get with a stock ecu. i know there is more stuff but im not an expert........

 

[boostedinaz]

i think you guys are getting a little off topic.

what about other options such as studder box, no fuel cut, and perfect idle with larger injectors that he would not get with a stock ecu. i know there is more stuff but im not an expert........

Ok what about them? Are you asking if they can be put in a chip or DSMlink or are you pointing out that they can be slected?

 

[dnhieu]

sorry if my post was confusing but what i was trying to get at is that they are all an advantage over the stock ecu. it would probably help him further to find out what other things eprom chips have like turing your stock boost guage into a knock guage .

 

[logic]

I'm just worried that the original poster has the impression that there is some inherent benefit to getting an EPROM ECU.

Unless he plans to purchase (or create) a new chip for his car (either DSMLink, something from dsmchips or another vendor, burn his own, etc), there is no inherent advantage to replacing his 1997 ECU with a 1995 EPROM ECU. He should also be aware that if he replaces his '97 ECU with a '95, he'll need to reverse the order of his plug wires (since the plug firing order is reversed on the '95), and at least one OBDII emissions test will no longer be run (not that it usually matters). If there's no plan to upgrade to an aftermarket chip down the road, he should probably just buy a non-EPROM replacement (since they can usually be found quite a bit cheaper than the EPROM ECUs; anyone with a 2g DSMLink probably has one lying around ).

If moving to an aftermarket chip might be in the cards, however, and he needs to do an ECU replacement today, switching to an EPROM ECU is probably a good idea; pay now, or pay later.

 

[WikedSicc]

You must specify which system you are talking about when wanting specifics.

Regardless of that, I am not a fan of any "stock ecu" systems. You mention perfect idle with large injectors. I understand "large" can be interpreted many different ways by different people, but the majority of these systems will never give you a perfect idle. Most will have you running rich at idle not to mention rich around town.

The big money ECU's are the ones which majorly effect daily drivablility. Not to mention the fact that fuel pumps, fpr's, fuel lines...ect. all play a major role in the driveability. Most people put in parts to flow more fuel, and they work great under WOT, but not under normal driving conditions. This is where the power of the stock ECU fails and there isn't enough control.

I realize that money is a main deciding factor, but I strongly believe in "doing it right" the first time. You will save money on buying new parts and save some of the frustration with day to day problems. I use AEM EMS, my friends use AEM EMS, and personally I would never build a highly modified car with out it.

 

[logic]

Hi, Dan.

An AEM EMS works wonderfully if you own a '95 or earlier (it's what I originally planned on building up around, frankly). However, if you own a '96 or newer and live in an area that requires regular emissions inspections, it suddenly becomes a less-attractive option, unless you feel like gaming the system.

As for fuel, DSMLink will allow anything up to 1150cc/min injectors to idle like stock, and I really do mean stock; you'd have no idea a larger injector was in there without physically checking. It can make 1600s work with a degraded idle, while an EMS seems to have pretty significant problems with 1600s without a lot of fine tuning; don't most EMS owners end up going with an aftermarket injector driver box to get 1600s to work properly?

And to add some love for the 1g: we run 750s in my wife's Laser with a chip I burned that takes the corrected size and deadtime into account (along with a few other things, like compensate for the 2g MAS, add a stutterbox/NLTS, etc), and you'd never know her car was anything but a stock 1g until she hits the happy pedal.

In other words, a system built around a modified OEM ECU is a perfectly workable situation. But what does any of this have to do with the original poster's question?

 

[boostedinaz]

You must specify which system you are talking about when wanting specifics. Regardless of that, I am not a fan of any "stock ecu" systems. You mention perfect idle with large injectors. I understand "large" can be interpeted many different ways by different people, but the majority of these systems will never give you a perfect idle. Most will have you running rich at idle not to mention rich around town. The big money ecu's are the ones which majorly effect daily drivablility. Not to mention the fact that fuel pumps, fpr's, fuel lines...ect. all play a major role in the driveability. Most people put in parts to flow more fuel, and they work great under WOT, but not under normal driving conditions. This is where the power of the stock ecu fails and there isn't enough control. I realize that money is a main deciding factor, but I strongly believe in "doing it right" the first time. You will save money on buying new parts and save some of the frustration with day to day problems. I use AEM EMS, my friends use AEM EMS, and personally I would never build a highly modified car with out it.

Have you used DSMLink?

I know a few locals and myself that have had great luck and drivability with the smallest injectors being 750's and the largest being 1000's.

You also forget one major point. They have to make every map with EMS. The user has to make it idle, the user has to make it a daily driver, and the user has to make it run well WOT. If they can't then they need to go to someone to have all that done. So while it is a great tool and it might actually idle and drive better the odds of that happening are against a newbie and even a person with decent tunnign experiance. Not only that but DSMlink is under 600.00 while EMS is easily over a 1000.00.

So when someone is asking about basic differences EMS will not help them in anyway.

 

[kottyking]

Basically your stock ecu will have to use a piggyback computer to tune. With an eprom, you can use chips (burned w/ whatever features you want), and as stated above dsmlink which is the sexiest/best thing a dsm could ever ask for if it could talk.

 

[ironryder]

As my understanding and from reading up on DSM Link's website, you can acutally program your EPROM ECU with DSM Link without the actual DSM Link chip in there. The only reason for the DSM Link chip in there is in case your battery dies or you loose power. Basically, you could hook up a DSM Link to an EPROM ECU without even haveing your ECU chipped with DSM Link. Where did I get this info? They tell you right on their site. www.dsmlink.com

The whole "EPROM" meaning in short terms, is that it is reprogrammable.

so im alittle confuse...are you saying if you have an eprom, than all you have to get is the cable,lab top and the software to run dsmlink? without sending in your chip or getting you ecu socketed?

 

[logic]

so im alittle confuse...are you saying if you have an eprom, than all you have to get is the cable,lab top and the software to run dsmlink? without sending in your chip or getting you ecu socketed?

To run DSMLink, you need:

1. A socketed ECU (which ECM Tuning can do for you for an additional $30, if necessary).
2. $565 burning a hole in your pocket.

At the end of that, you will receive:

1. A special chip (and daughterboard, if you have a 1g) with the ECU portion of DSMLink on it.
2. A special cable, which will only work with that chip.
3. A CDROM with laptop software for talking to that special chip.
4. A special wire, for no-lift-to-shift functionality.
5. A username and password giving you access to the DSMLink forums.
6. A spiffy electrostatic-resistant padded box.

There are no magic shortcuts here, where you could buy some of it now and some of it later, or just get it socketed and somehow use the software and cable without the chip, or other such malarky; please ignore what alex wrote earlier in the thread.

By the way, if you have questions about how the product works, there is contact information on their website; perhaps simply shooting them an email might help clarify things for you.

 

[delneroni]

My question about EPROM ECUs is, where can I get one and where can I get a chip programmed to eliminate fuel cut?

My 1990 Laser (please see vehicle profile) is running great, but with one exception: I hit fuel cut every time I try to accellerate really hard. I have turned down the boost quite a bit, but it still happens occasionally when I am trying to make a pass on the highway. I have been told that the most economical solution to the problem is an EPROM ECU with a keydiver chip programmed to eliminate fuel cut, but the keydiver people have not responded to my emails, and the others I have checked with seem to be all out of EPROM ECUs.

If anybody knows where I can get a reconditioned EPROM ECU and how I can get it programmed to eliminate fuel cut, I would appreciate it.

 

[logic]

Most of the ECU reprogramming folks don't generally tend to keep a stock of ECUs handy. Your best bet for finding one is the classifieds on here or other boards, on eBay, or through your local DSM club. As for reprogramming it, there's a number of people who can do it; most folks send people in the direction of Jeff O. (keydiver), but by virtue of this post being here, you'll probably get a few people contacting you saying they can do it too.

Worst case, try asking on the dsm-ecu mailing list; if someone is doing DSM reprogramming work, they're probably on there.