ECMlink A/F ratio

[KeelesKustome]

your right, my settings are way different from the template, i got it down to the 14 and 16 range which is way better than my 18 range. thats all at idle.

i want a WIDEBAND BUT CANNOT AFFORD ONE RIGHT NOW, I'M SEAKING GUIDENCE FOR WHAT I HHAVE NOW, NOT LATER. sry didn't mean to hit caps.

anyways, it's strange, when in open loop it's correct, but when it cycles to closed loop it goes back to 18:1, i'll tap the gas and it'll cycle out and go back to my settings.

What do you think i'm doing wrong.

 

[the_mork]

When it is in closed loop the car is receiving feedback from the front o2 sensor to bring the car to stoich (14.7:1). This means that your car is pretty safe to drive for cruise and idle and if the system is functioning properly then no matter what AFRest tells you your car is probably pretty close to that range until you come out of closed loop for hard accel, low temp, or anything else that would take you out of closed loop.

So how do we fix it so you can have fun with the car now? We don't really. Drive the car gently and let it take care of itself for the moment and save up for a wideband. They can be had now for less than $200. I do fully understand what you mean by not being able to afford one right now as I am just finishing college and I know exactly what $200 could do for my lifestyle and my budget but that money is a lot cheaper than a new engine. People certainly used to tune cars without widebands but usually they were very experienced, worked with metering devices that weren't hacked, and still blew up a lot of motors. With cheap widebands these days it just isn't worth it to mess around so richen up everything above closed loop levels so that you're safe(r) in case you reach those areas and then just drive the car like a grandma until you get your wideband.


Also I'd like to clear up a few misconceptions:

First, a car will run at 18:1 AFR. This is entirely undesirable even at idle but probably wont hurt anything as long as it is relatively short lived and at low load. I've done it and occasionally it happens to me when I'm messing around with fuel settings because I have such large injectors that small changes in a table make big changes in real life.

Second cars will often go into decel fuel cut when coasting down a hill or slowing down which will show as 18:1 on a wideband or AFRest. This is not a problem as the engine isn't actually running and is only turning because the transmission is still turning. This feature saves fuel.

Third, our fuel maps are not setup at the 9:1ish range because of bad gas and 14.7:1 is not an optimal number for anything that most of us actually care about. 14.7:1 is the stoichiometric ratio for gasoline and is a low emissions target. The best fuel mileage for gasoline with good behavior comes from an AFR of around 15.3:1. The best power for a gasoline engine usually comes from an AFR of around 12.5:1 but do not ever run this number at WOT (unless using gasoline scaling with e85). For our engines it is worthwhile to run an AFR of approximately 11:1 at WOT. The reason for this is that turbo engines create a lot of heat and an effective compression ratio that is very high. In order to avoid knock and keep internals from melting we actually need to use fuel for properties besides burning and this includes fuel's cooling capacity. The stock maps run even richer than this to reduce warranty claims by not riding the edge of safety AND in case someone runs a poor quality gasoline.

There is a lot more to understanding fueling but this should serve as a basic primer course so that you can better understand what you find when you search for more answers.

 

[KeelesKustome]

any of you have V2 dsmlink? if so I'll post a log for you to see what i am telling you.

also if i buy a wideband, i should be able to log it on my dsmlink correct?

 

[GSXSixteenG]

any of you have V2 dsmlink? if so I'll post a log for you to see what i am telling you.

also if i buy a wideband, i should be able to log it on my dsmlink correct?

You should also be running the v3 software. You can still run the v3 software if you have v2.

Yes, you can log your wbo2 with link. Just a matter of splicing into a wire.

 

[KeelesKustome]

I'm tired of everyone telling me that, I have downloaded v3 and it won't work for anything.. geeze. Anything I have is never good enough for you guys, your always telling me to spend more money on more stuff, and upgrade that the latest and greatest, when it's been done like this for years and you act like anything I have won't work.

 

[JusMX141]

^ That's no way to respond to a thread with 30 posts. People are obviously trying to help you here- if you don't like it, search for help on the Link forums instead.

Running the V3 logging software on your V2 program should function normally, and it definitely doesn't cost anything. A local friend of mine who had never seen or touched ECMLink a week ago bought a used V2.5 setup and is currently logging on V3 software so it can't be that difficult.

 

[joescool2008]

Yeah its a free download, and you can select what hardware you are running in it, like v2 dsmlink for 1g or 2g.

 

[KeelesKustome]

I agree it wasn't a proper response, I have read through others threads for hours and keep finding the same type of posts that i have been given, with absolutely no clear or helpfull data.

I've been in contact via email with ecmlink, and we are trying to figure out why my ecu will not recognize the progam /v3. Untill this is resolved can anyone help me with what I have?

Check out this log, it's the best i have been able to chage things thus far.
A/F is decent at idle, but as soon as i give it gas in idle postiion or driving it goes way 18:1 lean......soooooo I started moving my other sliders and adding some fuel for saftey, but it's changed verry little.

side note, I am going to buy a wideband o2, what brand should i get to work with this dsmlink.

 

[bradselph]

This page works wonders

externalsensorlist [ECMTuning - wiki]

I have the uego and i followed everything posted in the wiki for ecmlink and it logs fine haven't had a problem others say lc1 is the best.

 

[KeelesKustome]

ECMTuning User Support Forums

 

[GSXSixteenG]

I agree it wasn't a proper response, I have read through others threads for hours and keep finding the same type of posts that i have been given, with absolutely no clear or helpfull data.

I've been in contact via email with ecmlink, and we are trying to figure out why my ecu will not recognize the progam /v3. Untill this is resolved can anyone help me with what I have?

Check out this log, it's the best i have been able to chage things thus far.
A/F is decent at idle, but as soon as i give it gas in idle postiion or driving it goes way 18:1 lean......soooooo I started moving my other sliders and adding some fuel for saftey, but it's changed verry little.

side note, I am going to buy a wideband o2, what brand should i get to work with this dsmlink.

Are you talking closed loop or open loop? Fuel sliders only matter for open loop.

Is your front o2 cycling like it should?

 

[KeelesKustome]

in closed loop it recieves voltage and thats when it goes way lean. in open loop my settings are getting the correct readings.

 

[Jonnynitrous]

Also I'd like to clear up a few misconceptions:

First, a car will run at 18:1 AFR. This is entirely undesirable even at idle but probably wont hurt anything as long as it is relatively short lived and at low load. I've done it and occasionally it happens to me when I'm messing around with fuel settings because I have such large injectors that small changes in a table make big changes in real life.

Not to drag this out or be a dick,I am not arguing here.
LEL(lower explosive limit)of gasoline is 1.3-1.4%
21.9 is oxygen and 1.3% of that is 16.84 AFR
So a gasoline engine will NOT run at a 18 AFR
Just wanted to clear that up
Sorry for messing with you thread Keeleskustome

 

[GSXSixteenG]

Wish I had link on this laptop so I could see the log. I know most people won't be able to view it because you posted on the link forum and it is not a .elg file.

I have ubuntu operating system so I can't download it either.

 

[KeelesKustome]

See if that file works for you, I had a brain fart with the last post.

and this is where i am now.

 

[KeelesKustome]

V3 log is now available, so feel free to take a look and give me direction.

In this log i had to really change my global fuel settings for my idle mixture to be this good. Otherwise even getting my maf to read 0.25 i was still way lean, near 18 and 20, the car sputtered like crazzy and would die when i stoped. All other manual adjustments have been made, moving my global is the only thing that will make my car read a/f correctly and not die. I am woundering if i got shafted on my injector size.

Also i have a 6 bolt swap with the wire reset for 4-1-2-3 setup, on dsmlink do i still need to invert the cas?

 

[phunny]

Basic DSMLink Tuning Guide


(This guide is exactly what the title implies, a basic guide to tuning. It is not intended to teach you, or tell you, everything needed to tune a DSM. Research will be required to fully understand the terms, values, and procedures below. With that said, the people involved with any and all aspects of this guide are NOT responsible for ANY damage done to your car.)

Written and edited by: Shane2GSX and NickNorth11


Before You Start:
• Verify that Base Timing is correct
• Verify that Base Fuel Pressure is correct (1g manual = 37 psi; 1g auto = 43.5;
• 2g = 43.5 psi)
• Verify that there are no boost leaks
• Ensure all other components are working correctly
• Swap plug wires to account for different CAS (97-99)

Approximation of desired values: (Some of these must be obtained manually and some via DSMLink. Others are simply values to monitor and keep within given parameters.)
•A/F Ratio (closed loop) 14.7
(open loop) 11
•AirFlow (compare to specific turbo output)
•AirFlowPerRev (at idle) M/T = .27 10% (.24 - .30)
A/T (neutral) = same as M/T
(drive) = .31 10% (.28 - .34)
•CoolTmp x>179°, sufficient operating temp. to tune
if: x<206°, full timing
206°<X
<224°, -1°>x>224°, -2°
•IdleSw (car off / ecu on) 1
•IntTemp (34°< x <84)
•ISCPosition 30 (at idle)
•LearnedIdleAdj 140 (at idle)
•LTFT Lo x&#8594;0, (0 5)
•LTFT Mid x&#8594;o, (0 5)
•Front02 cycles around .5 (.05-.95)
•RawThrotPos 32
•ThrotPos if: idle, 0
WOT, 100
•TPSvolts .63 (when RawThrotPos = 32)


Setting Initial Parameters:
1. Setup wideband operation within dsmlink.
2. If needed, change BoostEst to your respective engine size. (2.0L, 2.3L)
3. Set the A/F Ratio prefs for your injectors.
4. If base timing is off, adjust timing sliders across the board to compensate. (if 3, add 2)
5. If needed, cancel out any CEL’s due to already known causes. (such as rear O2)
6. For safety and if desired, set Knock CEL to 3 degrees knock.
7. Set global and dead time parameters according to specifications for injectors.
8. Set desired values to be logged.


Closed Loop Tuning (Cruise/Idle):
1. Setup DSMLink to Log the following (if available):
a. TPS
b. STFT
c. LTFT Lo
d. LTFT Mid (2G) or LTFT Hi (1G)
e. MAFRaw
f. Wideband
g. Boost sensor (GM 3 bar, AEM, etc.)
2. Turn on vehicle and let warm properly.
3. Drive normally, cruising for at least 10 minutes - Do not go WOT
4. Let car idle for 5 minute before shutting it off - Stop logging
5. Choose your method of closed loop tuning by determining first if AirflowPerRev is at an acceptable value at idle. If AirflowPerRev is not acceptable, begin tuning using Method 1 until it is at an acceptable value. If AirflowPerRev is acceptable, proceed to Method 2.

Method 1 – Airflow Metering:
1. Turn on vehicle and let warm properly.
2. Begin logging. Drive normally, cruising for at least 10 minutes - Do not go WOT
3. Let car idle for 5 minute before shutting it off - Stop logging
4. Compare LTFT for idle (Lo) and cruise (Mid) operations – Strive to get as close to 0% as possible.
5. If either is greater than +/- 5 from 0%, proceed to step 6. If not, and your happy with your %, you may stop.
6. If LTFT Lo is negative, decrease the 50 Hz slider in the amount of that value. (i.e. If LTFT Lo is -10%, decrease the 50 Hz slider from 0% to -10%).
7. If LTFT Mid is positive, increase the 150 Hz slider in the amount of that value. (i.e. If LTFT Mid is 10%, increase the 150 Hz slider from 0% to 10%).
Or: (From method 1) If LTFT Lo is greater than LTFT Mid, increase dead time. If LTFT Lo is less then LTFT Mid, decrease dead time.
8. If adjustments are made, return to step 1.

Method 2 – Fuel Delivery:
1. Turn on vehicle and let warm properly.
2. Begin logging. Drive normally, cruising for at least 10 minutes - Do not go WOT
3. Let car idle for 5 minute before shutting it off - Stop logging
4. Compare LTFT for idle (Lo) and cruise (Mid) operations – Strive to get as close to 0% as possible.
5. If either is greater than +/- 5 from 0%, proceed to step 6. If not, and your happy with your %, you may stop.
6. If LTFT Lo is greater than LTFT Mid, increase dead time. If LTFT Lo is less then LTFT Mid, decrease dead time.
7. If LTFT Lo and LTFT Mid are equal but non-zero, adjust global setting.
8. If adjustments are made, return to step 1.

Open Loop Tuning (WOT) Fuel & Timing:

1. Choose a desired fuel/octane level.
2. Choose a desired boost level that you want to run. Dial your boost in at a lower boost setting to begin with, depending on turbo size, probably no more than 1 bar.
(An alternate to the previous method is to start at your target boost level with conservative settings, i.e. low timing and rich mixture. Make a few pulls before tuning to ensure safe operation before continuing with this method).
3. Choose a proper A/F Ratio to shoot for in the entire RPM range – Some common A/F ratios are 10:1, 10.5:1, 11:1, 11.3:1, 11.5:1. The proper A/F ratio will depend on your specific vehicle and its setup. While there are too many variables to list when determining a proper A/FR, some of the common ones are fuel octane, intercooler efficiency, and turbo size. In most cases, on a properly running DSM, on pump gas with an efficient intercooler, an 11:1 A/FR is a common and safe ratio to make good power with.
4. Ensure that all values you want to log are set. (The following are recommended).
a. Wideband
b. Boost sensor
c. EGT
5. After warming the car properly (warm car, drive at cruise for 10 min., idle for 5 min.), data log a 3rd gear pull from 2000 RPM to redline. Keep a very close eye on Knock, A/FR, and EGT’s for anything that might spell trouble.
• If you see ANY Knock, increase fuel sliders. If A/FR is already richer than your target, reduce timing by a degree instead of increasing fuel.
• If no Knock is present and your A/FR is leaner than your target, increase fuel to desired level. If A/FR is richer than your target, and you’re at your target boost PSI, decrease fuel.
6. Allow car to cool down between runs. (Number of runs between cool down periods will be dependant on intercooler efficiency and boost level, among other things. Not doing this will result in inconsistent results).
7. Continue logging runs in this manner until you reach your target A/FR with no Knock.
8. Once you reach your target A/FR with no knock, raise boost by 5 PSI or less. Repeat steps 5 through 7 until you reach your target boost PSI.
9. Once you’ve reached your target boost PSI and desired A/FR with no knock, increase timing by one degree and log another 3rd gear pull from 2000 RPM to redline. Again, keep a close eye on Knock, A/FR, and EGT’s.
10. Repeat step 8 until you see one degree of knock retard. At that point, reduce timing by one degree. (Aim for high teens to low 20s for timing advance. Higher is better.)
11. Finally, do a full run from 1st through 4th gear, watching Knock, A/FR, EGT’s, and boost. Watch knock especially closely. Ensure you run the car very hard. If you see any Knock, you may need to reduce timing. If you see that your A/FR’s are off, you may need to adjust your fuel.


Of course you really need a WB first. Another great source of info is JEFFGST.com

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

V3 log is now available, so feel free to take a look and give me direction.

In this log i had to really change my global fuel settings for my idle mixture to be this good. Otherwise even getting my maf to read 0.25 i was still way lean, near 18 and 20, the car sputtered like crazzy and would die when i stoped. All other manual adjustments have been made, moving my global is the only thing that will make my car read a/f correctly and not die. I am woundering if i got shafted on my injector size.

Also i have a 6 bolt swap with the wire reset for 4-1-2-3 setup, on dsmlink do i still need to invert the cas?

I'm still new to v3 tuning and learning as I go but I can tell you that you need to log CombinedFTs. Without it we can't see how the ECU is compensating your fuel. Also your AirflowPerRev is still too high, averaging about .29. As mentioned earlier it needs to be .25 with Combined FT's averaging around 0. They need to be adjusted at the same time.

Where are you getting your AF Ratio numbers? You said it's running lean, around 18:1 - 20:1. Where are you getting that number? It's not AFRatioEst because that is showing around 16:1 in your log.

It sounds like your MAS is your main issue though. Do you have a friend with an unhacked one you can borrow?

 

[KeelesKustome]

Awsome guide, thank you this should really help.

Before we continue, I need to know if my CAS needs to be inverted on DSMlink or not.
I have a 6 bolt swap with 2g coil packs and i swapped the wires around, otherwise it doesn't start. With doing that do i still need to invert the CAS?

 

[snowborder714]

You should be inverting the CAS unless you have a '95-'96 CAS (behind the intake cam).

Your plug wires also need to be 3-2-1-4 into the coil pack, but normal (4-3-2-1-timing belt) on the head.

 

[KeelesKustome]

They are indeed 880cc injectors, so thats good news. Also did my boost leak test and fuel pressure test all are correct.

check out this log, I am getting thehang of things, whats odd, is how even reading the correct airflow per rev, the A/f mixture goes lean under partial throttle.

I went ahead and checked the cas sensor as i think it was suppose to be done, the car is idleing much better and running better, except for some sputtering when i slowly accelerate.

take a look at my new settings and log, any insite would be great.

Sitting here on the couch reflecting on everything, it occured to me that maybe my maf needs to be adjusted lower on some of the higher rpm's similar to how i was able to richen up the idle.

Should i move 2 sliders at a time and slowly get it calibrated throughout the entire rpm range?

I also noticed, when it leaned out the timing stayed much more constant at a wopping 37 degrees, why it spekes this high I am unsure, but it does seem to be rather odd.

I just read this..........


The ECU learns how much adjustment is
needed to the “calculated” fuel values to cause this cycling to occur during closed loop operation. That value is referred to as the long-term fuel trim. A LTFT significantly above or below 0% indicates that the global fuel settings for the ECU do not accurately reflect your fuel system. It could be that the injectors aren’t flowing properly, the global
fuel setting isn’t set correctly, the O2 sensor isn’t working 100%, or probably a number of other things. Regardless this learned adjustment is NOT applied during open loop operation. The bottom line is that since the learned LTFT value is not applied during open loop operation, you really should strive to get your LTFT value as close to 0% as possible during idle and cruise conditions. Doing so helps to ensure that your global adjustments
are accurate so that the modifications you make to the fuel settings during open loop operation have a better chance of behaving as intended. The DSMLink User Guide contains a detailed

okay i see my lft lo is at 12.5 % my question is what direction do i need to adjust my global fuel trim to get this down to 0%

my mid is at 7.8%, also will changing my lo setting in global fix this? And what direction do i need to go from -46.1% in my global settings?

 

[KeelesKustome]

Well I seemed to remedy the problem myself. I had thought i had already right clicked on airfuel ratio values and changed my injector sizing, dead time , sea level, etc.... but i can only assume I forgot to redo this when my battery was undone, and that was the issue for the miss readings.

So basically you have to put your fuel settings in 2 different spots and look up on the internet how high above sea level you are.

 

[KeelesKustome]

I'm still new to v3 tuning and learning as I go but I can tell you that you need to log CombinedFTs. Without it we can't see how the ECU is compensating your fuel. Also your AirflowPerRev is still too high, averaging about .29. As mentioned earlier it needs to be .25 with Combined FT's averaging around 0. They need to be adjusted at the same time.

Where are you getting your AF Ratio numbers? You said it's running lean, around 18:1 - 20:1. Where are you getting that number? It's not AFRatioEst because that is showing around 16:1 in your log.

It sounds like your MAS is your main issue though. Do you have a friend with an unhacked one you can borrow?

Your Airflow per rev is incorrect for automatics, we run more around .30- .32 for idle.

 

[doubleclutch99]

Your Airflow per rev is incorrect for automatics, we run more around .30- .32 for idle.

This is what i see.
•AirFlow (compare to specific turbo output)
•AirFlowPerRev (at idle) M/T = .27 10% (.24 - .30)
A/T (neutral) = same as M/T
(drive) = .31 10% (.28 - .34)
Then you should adjust your tps volts. at idle your's shows throttle position is at zero but your tps volts are reading .47 and it should be .63 at idle.
your air flow per rev at about three quarters through the log looks to be about .26 . which is good in my book any day of the week. also log combined fuel trim. set your global fuel settings to match the injectors exactly then adjust the dead time to get the combined fuel trim to hover around plus or minus 5% then post up another idle log.

 

[KeelesKustome]

The forum never showed I had a response, I'm sorry for the delay, I'll post another log up today for you to help me with. And see if I have performed the correct measures or not.