99 2.0 NT No spark please Help at Wits End

[Mik]

Installed new tranny in car, won't start now absolutely no spark, had it towed to a local shop they blow up ecu. Finally bought *new* OEM ecu, still will not start so here are the things that I have been done so far.

-New MFI Relay
-New ASD Relay
-New MSD Coil
-New MSD Wire
-New Nonology silver tip plugs (gap to manuf. spec)
-New ECU (factory)
-New Crankshaft Position Sens
-Checked wiring under dash and at Starter Relay etc
-Fully charged Yellow top Optima
-Good/Tested Cam Shaft Postion Sensor.

Don't know about Power Transistor can't find it . I do know that I am not getting voltage to the coil. I do have a OBD 2 read but not throwing codes. The car used to have an Alldin car alarm (pager style) in it but was removed and I check the wiring it was hooked up to for shorts and such none found.

Really confused please help

 

[luv2rallye]

N/T's do not have power transistors. Ignition is controlled by the Powertrain Control Module. If you don't have 12V on one side of the coils (to ground), then you have a problem with the 30A fusable link, ASD relay, capacitor, or wiring. That's all there is on it.

 

[Mik]

I just checked the MFI (ASD) relay and found a little hard capping on some of the contact points, but I didn't know which capacitor you were referring to? and on a side note your car pretty cool. DSM Rally car yes!

 

[Mik]

I pretty sure I narrowed it down with luv2rallye help along with a 2nd set of hands and all data subscription, I think it is the capacitor that mounts on the engine block, does not stay with the specified rang when measured with my fluke meter.

 

[justin0469]

so is it fixed now or still having problems?

 

[Mik]

Don't know yet the parts I order from the dealership did not come in yet, but when they do, and I install them (which will be right away) I will post definitely, as a side note I finally order my two post lift for my garage yeah

 

[Mik]

still not fixed

 

[justin0469]

check EVERY fuse?

 

[luv2rallye]

I just checked the MFI (ASD) relay and found a little hard capping on some of the contact points...

If this ASD relay (or it's wiring) doesn't work correctly, you won't have 12V to your ignition circuitry. I suggest as a test, temporarily removing this relay and shorting pin 8 (middle pin in bottom row - red/black (red w/black stripe) wire which is +12V battery thru 30A fusable link) to pin 2 (middle pin in top row - black/red wire which goes to ignition). The relay does exactly this when activated. If you now have ignition, then either the relay is bad or ground was never applied to pin 4 which is how the relay is activated. BTW pin 4 is often changed to go to car alarms so it is then suspect. Normally pin 4 goes to the PCM pin 67 and without a car alarm IT BETTER BE PUT BACK THERE. You can test this by replacing the relay and grounding it's pin 4 (left side middle row - red/white wire). If you now have ignition, then either the wire was not connected back to the PCM or the PCM is bad.

 

[justin0469]

wouldnt have also have to short pin 4? another way to do that is if you have a multi meter. the easiest thing stick the leads in the red wire before and after the relay, then just turn it to the audible short detector thing. if it beeps your relay works. oh yea, still check all the fuses

 

[Mik]

Yep Every single fuse in the whole car test good. MFI relay is a new GP Sorenson M76. The Wiring tested okay at the PCM Connector, since this is a new PCM does it have to be reprogramed Vin and ODmeter, etc before it will work? Still working on the car but some jack ass tried to brake into my shop last Sat...so I had to get my welder out and make some things to fix that (its probably cause I live in the sticks). WTF

 

[Mik]

I now have AIM mikdsm, so hit me up if you want but I am in Washington so.. westcoast time

 

[justin0469]

one guy on either here or dsmtalk (i forget) had a very similar problem that was because the ground wire on his CAS was broken that he couldnt see. just had to test it.

 

[Spoolin4Ever]

Did it start BEOFE the tranny install?

What does it do when you try to start it?

These 2 things we need to know really to get started on this IMHO.

 

[Mik]

Yes it did start before, now it just cranks over (forever)......and what is CAS?

 

[justin0469]

CAS = cam angle sensor

 

[Mik]

I rechecked everything I could think of. I even recently took the convoluted tubing off the wire harness and checked the wires physically, as well as with my fluke meter all test okay. But I have also been fairly busy helping a guy mod his M3. In addition and as an add bonus I have been off work since Dec (My job was outsourced) yeah, so now I am on a really tight buget. Any other Ideas?

 

[shiftdrift06]

Umm perhaps timing?

 

[Mik]

Timmings okay I just get no spark, fuel also okay and I can tell mechanically the car wants to run because when I srayped some start spray in the manifold it would try to run (but just on compression caused by high explosion from the start spray). I just want it to run so that I can drive it so bad, its pissing me off

 

[Mik]

I was looking around on the site and found this troubleshooting guide I got some info off it. Its an awesome guide with VFAQ links and what not. If your having a starting issue you should also check it. Didn't fix my prob but help me understand somthings and it might help somebody out. Good job femmeDSM
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217951

 

[femmeDSM]

^^ Thanks

It looks like luv2rallye has given you pretty much the same info I would have given you, so I don't know how much help I will be.

You mentioned that a shop "blew up your ECU"...How exactly did that happen? What were they doing? And are you sure you got the correct replacement ECU from the factory?

Have you been able to hook your car up to any data logger or Scantool to see if there are any stored codes in the new ECU? Does the new ECU even boot up?

*scratches head*

 

[Mik]

I hooked up a Code Reader but nothing. I can hear the ecu bleeding off when I turn the car off (hi-pitched whine) it was absolutly new from factory seal in a pack when I got it. As for how the shop ('Mikes' Located in Vancouver Washington) blew it up. They actually told me I did it. But I know better becuase when I took the car to them I had just put the cover on the ecu (PCM). They called me a day later told me they hadn't found anything I then authorizerd them to keep spending my money... I mean keep looking, they called the next day and told me they had bypassed some relays?? I still don't know which ones (which I did not like and warned them about that did not go over well), on the 3rd day they called and asked if I knew that my ecu (PCM) was blown up. I went down there with my father a little bit of background on my father and I we are both copy repair tech (thats what a Digital Field Eng., on my profile) so we look at copier mechanical and electrical problems all day (or I use to) when we got there and went in to the garage I could smell the burnt elect smell. I walked over to my car where they had already deinstall my factory ecu (PCM) and opened it for me, I could then see where a capacitor was blown off and out though the protective jelly of my ecu (PCM) in addition my processor was melted as an added bonus it was still warm. They then proceeded to feed me lines of crap and try to get me to buy a refurbed ecu by way of one of their 'connections'. I respecfully declined paid them (I dont like Mechanics Leans') and had my car towed home. Thats when I joined DSM TUNER in hopes of getting help with this problem and other advice ect.....which I have this is a awesome support/community chalked full of like minded tuners much thanks to everyone for their interest and supprot thus far and hopfully continued, the reason I didn't mention this in my post previously is it's kinda a long story and I try to be a direct kind of person.

 

[rsvirus]

I have a 91 Eagle Talon and i also dont have a spark. I have a 91 NT 4g63 which i added turbo on it previously and i think thats what blew my ECM. I had no idea at the time so I finally ordered a japanese engine to swap it out and its already installed in my car. After adding all the fluids needed and putting the battery on it cranked but it didnt want to start. I checked all my sensors, cables, wires, grounds, and fuses still nothing. My brother unpluged spark plug wire 1 and inserted a screwdriver and put it to some metal to check for a spark and nothing. I also checked the coil packs and even the module and all were fine but when i checked the cables that connect to the both there was no power going to the both of the plugs for the coil packs and the module. I just happened to have a ECM that blonged to a turbo Laser that a friend owned and tried it out and my car turned on. Ofcourse it was pretty messed up on the air/fuel ratio mix but it was running. I then opened up my ECM and it was burnt so bad it made a deep pit on the metal. So i placed an order for a ECM that someone was selling on ebay for $80. He says hes parting the vehicle and is selling all the parts. so far he has no neg feedback. I just hope it works fine when i recieve it. I should have it by monday, latest tuesday and then we'll see if it works out. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Mik]

I am going to go back thought the whole post agin and make sure I double check every sugestion again. I keep mulling over luv2rally's post.

 

[Mik]

I got out and retried somethings with my fathers help (althought it still not fixed). We did what luv2rally suggested (Kinda) we took the cover off the relay, as stated before I would try starting and the relay would latch then unlatch. So my father held it closed once he held it closed (physically) it would stay lacthed up, but still no spark. I then poped the spark plug wire off #3 and took a screw driver and grounded and tried it again, nothing. I am seriously considering taking it into another shop. I got some advice on where to take my car from some local members. I think I'll go check them out. If I do get it fixed I definatly post and give people the credit they deserve for helping me too. DSM Power