Resolved 92 laser won't start

[Gasolinebaptism]

So I turned 16 and my dad gave me his 92 laser RS AWD turbo, he had had it for awhile and the last 6 years or so it has sat in a lean to, waiting for me. We started it somewhere in the middle of the time and there wasn't an issue. pulled it out last summer however and it wouldn't start. new plugs, injectors work, fuel makes it to the injectors, but the injectors won't fire, and either will the spark plugs. There is a new power transistor and camshaft position sensor. The ecu gave the 9 beep starting sequence when the key is on, indicating that it works, but we've pulled it anyways. So I'm looking for some direction, a next step?

 

[siccboostsi]

check the ecu, also unplug both coils from the harness and test the ohms if they are both putting out the same ohms then they are good.

 

[steve]

The ecu gave the 9 beep starting sequence when the key is on, indicating that it works, but we've pulled it anyways.

What 9 beep starting sequence?

If your connecting to the diagnostic connector the normal, no error, output is a repeating half second on off heartbeat pulse. If your not connecting to the DLC then the ECU doesn't make any sounds, the check engine light turns on for five seconds and then goes off when you first turn the ignition switch on and the boost gauge moved to zero until you start cranking the engine when it moves to -7 or so while cranking until you stop cranking.

 

[belize1334]

On a car that has sat that long you should be doing basic tune up stuff anyway. Go buy a set of BPR6ES spark plugs, and a fuel filter at the very least. Over the course of diagnosing the problem you can install those but in the mean time they'll be helpful tools in determining the issue.

You need 3 things to run...fuel, air, spark. After sitting for that long you could well have varnishing in your injectors so that they don't actually fire. It's also possible that your ecu caps have damaged the board which can present itself as a fuel pump failure.

Pull the cover off of the ECU and look for leaky caps. If they're bad then send it off for repair (it's not very expensive so don't worry). If they don't seem to be leaking too bad you'll still want to repair the ECU but first reinstall it while you find the current problem.

Make sure that you're getting fuel to the rail. First listen for the fuel pump while you have someone else crank the car over. You'll find the fuel pump cover plate at the rear of the vehicle. Get your ear down next to it and have a friend crank the engine over. The fuel pump should kick on as soon as the engine begins to crank. If it makes sounds when you crank the engine then you can move on down the line. If it doesn't, you could have a bad fuel pump, bad Cam-Angle-Sensor, or your ECU could have acid damage. You can test the pump itself by hotwiring it and listening for it to kick in.

Check to see if you're getting fuel to the rail. You can do this by disconnecting the fuel pressure return line (soft black line that comes off of the fuel pressure regulator near the timing belt cover). If it spills a little fuel when you pull it off then you know that you've got fuel flowing through the system. If it doesn't then you could have an electrical issue or you could also just have a clogged fuel filter. Replace that now and repeat.

Make sure that you're getting spark. The easiest way is to buy a timing light (the cheap kind w/o all the fancy compensating features) and just proceed to set the timing. If you can't or won't get a timing light then just unplug one of the cables from the head and insert one of your new, not yet installed, NGK spark plugs. Lay that on the valve cover and have someone crank the engine. If you don't see spark on the plug then you've got an ignition issue. Do that to all four cylinders. If it's a coil issue then, since they are batch fire, either the middle two won't work, or the outer two, or all four. If it's all four then that implies that both of your coils died at the same time which is unlikely, more likely it's something upstream like the igniter. If they all give spark then your ignition system is fine but it could still be your old spark plugs so replace them now. DO NOT USE ANTISEIZE as it is explicitly forbidden by NGK documentation.

If you're still not getting ignition it could be your injectors. Pull the fuel rail and injectors and then unplug the fuel pump (plug is under the cover plate in the rear of the vehicle). With the injectors out of the head, reattach the wiring clips and crank the engine. The injectors should make audible clicking sounds as they are triggered. If they do not then they could have expired electrically.

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

Well Steve I way have misunderstood something written by the Chiltons manual. When you turn the key on, before craking, the car beeps nine times, and according to the chiltons manual, or how I read it, that that meant the ecu was in working order.
But then I read something last night on here that said, using the white connector by the inside fuse box, you can diagnose sensor and computer failures, this is what I plan on doing next with a volt meter, but I'm kinda thinking that this cannot work because the ecu's memory has been cleared since the last time it was driven.
So, I'm left with the question, Is there any way to test the ecu without a diagnostic harness, and where should I go from my current position?

 

[belize1334]

If you have the ECU out, take the cover off and LOOK at it. Compare with this picture to see where the problem can occure. http://img.galantvr4.org/34000/34618-0-0-0.jpg

In the image, the two red circles indicate where your capacitors are located on the board. If you inspect the base of the capacitors you may (probably will) notice sticky gunk on the board. This is the acid that will eventually ruin everything. If there's alot of it then you may be in trouble. Contact the people at DSMChips.com. They will take your ecu and repair it if possible. If it cannot be repaired they'll sell you a new one. They're good people and will do right by you.

 

[steve]

First of all take that Chiltons manual and put it on the very back of your bookcase, go get the PDFs for the real manual. Read the 1G Technical Manual front to back, it will give you a good idea how the important features of this car work.

That white connector by the drivers left foot is the Diagnostic connector. The top left most pin is 1, data, and the bottom right most is pin 12 the ground pin. Measuring the voltage across the pins will give you important information on the ECU.

If you read nothing and a solid 12v the ECU has failed. As I said above, a normal working ECU will output a toggling 12v - 0v voltage. That's the heartbeat for a working ECU. Any active error codes will output their value rather than the heartbeat. Long 12v pulses are tens digits and short 12v pulses are ones digits, so if you see two long pulses and two short followed by a long pause that a code 22 for the Crank Angle Sensor. If you have more than one code it will flash out the highest priority first and the rest in priority order before repeating the codes.

Since it's so common for the capacitors to leak on these ECUs and cause them to fail, you shouldn't swap any more parts until you have checked the DLC, pulled the ECU and checked it, or have somebody test it.

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

Well Steve, I have the ECU in hand, and I assure you, it is not leaking.
So you're telling me that this diagnostic test will work with a memory cleared ECU. I will go try it, and report back with findings, thank you.

 

[steve]

I gave you two.
The first is to just watch the CEL and boost gauge to see if they do what I described when you turn the ignition on.
The second is to check the DLC output.

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

Okay Steve, I did what you said, first thing I plugged everything back in, hooked up the battery, turned the key on. No response from boost gauge and there was no check engine light.
I then moved on to the diagnostic connector, and got a steady 12 volts.
So could it be as easy as popping in a new ECU and driving to the DMV?

 

[steve]

So could it be as easy as popping in a new ECU and driving to the DMV?

It might. It may also mean that even though you assured us that it wasn't leaking it really had.

Since you saw a constant 12v at pin 1 of the DLC we don't have to look at the MPI fuse on the battery.

If you have the ability to take a picture of the ECU board, try and post it up so I can see what shape it's in. That will make it easier to make the repair/replace decision. There are a lot of junk ECUs out there because all of them either have had the caps leak or they will. Anything with original caps needs them replaces before they kill the ECU. I think in your case the ECU wasn't powered up all these years and the caps quit when you reapplied power (new battery).

I've fixed many ECUs where that happened.

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

Here's what it looks like Steve, looks good, but there must be a bad chip on it.
And about that Chiltons manual, my old man and I have been planning on usuing it as toilet paper on our next hunting trip.

 

[steve]

Somebody washed down the board with solvent but you can still see what looks like leakage between the front capacitor and the green pass transistor on the heatsink. You can also see some corrosion to the left of the capacitor in that picture in front of the two blue resistors and between the pins of the orange capacitor arrays under the heatsink.

There is some good stuff in the Chiltons manual but it's only a secondary reference. The Factory Service manuals don't tell you how to do stuff most of the time since they expect you to be a mechanic where Chiltons will explain the steps. Besides it doesn't make for good TP.

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

Thanks for all the help Steve, I found a guy and he's shipping me an ECU for $75, and I plan keeping this ECU and either sending it in to get fixed or buying some new caps for it, and putting them on myself.

This car has been an on and off project for me for awhile now, I've though multiple times that I've fixed the issue to be disappointed, so I'm not getting my hopes up. I hope this works, if not, I'll see about getting back to you.
Thanks again.

 

[steve]

I'm assuming since there hasn't been a follow up that the "new" ECU did the trick?

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

The car runs my man.

I started another thread that basically consisted of you and I over 40 posts talking about an idle issue. What I think we decided the issue was is a driver on the "new" ECU that can't fire up the ISC.

But, I've been meaning to ask if the FIAV could plausibly cause the symptoms I had. Which were: high idle, or perfect idle. It seems to idle high as it's warming up, anywhere from 2000 to 2500. It'll do this for the first 15 minutes I'm running it or so usually, and it doesn't matter usually if it was a hot start or cold. And sometimes with a warm start after she has sit for a half hour or so, it doesn't want to fire up, but if I can get it revved up a bit then it'll run, just idle high.