91 Talon

[Stapl3]

Many years ago my buddy wanted a DSM and we went to look at this one. The seller was driving it long distances on the regular. Here's the ad. He ended up getting it for $2800 (iirc). It had IC piping, a GM MAF setup, nice MBC and V3 'Link.

 

[Stapl3]

After a FMIC, rebuilt TB, SD setup, and some wheels from the shootout for 200 bucks, it was sold to me for 3500.

The bad: A stock clutch, the trans would grind, the passenger seatbelt didnt work, heater core leaked, shifter assembly missing parts, tires dry rotted, driver fender cosmetically bad.

The good: It was never wrecked, it cleaned up amazing despite the CL pictures, and well it was 3500 bucks for a complete DSM .

The goal: Make this car fully functional and then treat it as an experimental platform. I want to try 16g MAX effort, then swap turbine housings, try different manifolds, try super high fuel pressure, dial in a cyclone IM, try different coil packs, try different size piping, etc etc etc. Then go from there and try twin turbo, maybe a r.peters setup with a supercharger/turbo. This car is my platform to try all the dumb shit I've thought up or wondered about over the last 20 years with the end goal of fun. I intend to strike out a lot on stuff I do and am very ok with that.

 

[Stapl3]

So before fixing 'the bad', I wanted to see what it could do. In go FIC 850s and a modified Walbro 450. Base fuel pressure set to 80psi. The timing covers are gone so I literally set base ignition timing with my eyes closed and went by sound and just a gut feeling. Not recommended.

The clutch did give up the ghost very quickly at moderate boost, and I was SO close. Like, a couple more datalogs of adjustment away. Here's a screenshot of the final clean pull, it slipped next time I floored it. Everything is so damn stable.

 

[Stapl3]

Out comes the trans and stock tier clutch stuff. This trans is a decent core and will probably go out for dogbox.

In goes a ACT flywheel, Southbend disc, and ACT 3200. Transmission is a Jacks 2.2 HD that I've hoarded for a few years. As I understand it's one of the last made. I had to wait extra time for them to find some obsolete parts to finish the build and I had the feeling they were scraping the bottom of the barrel to pull it off. I hesitated to use it as it's probably worth more than I paid, but I need to ignore that whole mentality and use the shit I've accumulated. Paired with the trans is a Comp fork, OEM TOB, Redline 75W140NS fluid.

The transfer case I drained the fluid for some Redline Shockproof, and holy smokes that was a good idea. The fluid I drained was like mud and there was about half a shot glass worth of it.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Jesus Christ a 3200? How swole is your left leg?


Jelly of the jacks trans.

 

[Stapl3]

I had to drop the trans 3 times to get the clutch fork position correct. Despite everything being new, the pivot ball needed 2 thick washers.

In goes some new Feal 441 coilovers.

And a stock mount turned to solid.

Up next a Cyclone IM and some wiring cleanup.

 

[1cleangsx]

I’m officially TUNED IN for the “experimental” car

 

[Stapl3]

I pulled the intake manifold and that resulted in SO much wiring the past few weeks. I wanted everything to be the correct length, placement, quality. This is one of those things where you start and immediately pandora's box is opened. Literally nothing is where I wanted, wires rubbing on stuff, too long and looped, then you'd find a section wrapped in electrical tape and just know what lies beneath is going to be questionably bad. Poorly crimped, not heat shrinked, wrong size terminals, dirty connections, no solder, I found a bunch of stuff. For example, someone did this and thought it was good. This is the 2 white alternator wires to battery. Does it work, yeah. Does cutting steak with a butter knife work, yeah.

Here's the if you know, then you know shot I guess. Tons of wiring redone and made sense of.

I've recently got into distribution blocks instead of putting multiple wires on the battery terminal and there's no going back. Left to right is the fuel pump, ET box, blank, ARC-2 box, connection from block to battery terminal, fuse for ARC-2, fuse for fuel pump. It's nice to have it all there and tidy.

Back side of the battery tray I did a ground block which mimics the + block stuff along with some additional grounds along the engine bay I've yet to run.

Another thing I learned this year was the quality of wire. This wire I've been using is like butter compared to other sized wire, the copper inside is soft and the strands are super fine. Anyone know what this is called so I can find and buy more of this type of quality wire?

I ordered some rollerblade bearings for the shifter end links which we all knew about and they never arrived. I went on Amazon and found these for a few more $$ and they come in many colors. This is me being a ricer I guess. It admittedly does look cool. I remembered after someone figured out this free mod 20 years ago, machv jumped on and started selling 2 bearings welded together as a novel product I guess, so I decided to stack them and it's comical how perfect this works out.

This year at the Shootout I got my hands on a virgin Cyclone IM. I will not be using this unit on this car, but it's a hell of a reference.

Here is the unit I will be using that I've been hoarding. Ported, added fittings to plenum, and with a T-25 actuator. The actuator is not what I want to ultimately do, I want to control the valves with the ECU by RPM. But, for now, I will try this out. It is exciting to me to try it out using a MBC, then a EBC, then 'Link boost control. Again, this car is about trying stuff out.

 

[99dsmer4g63]

Maybe try a google search on welding cable. There is a vendor on eBay where I recently purchased mine. I got black and red to redo my starter cables.

He offered any gauge you wanted and it was purchased by the foot. Maybe just buy one foot to see if it’s what you want. Hard to tell if it’s exactly what you want by just a picture.

It definitely it super fine and soft. You could rub it down your cheek and it would not scratch you.

This is who I bought from.

-Daniel

 

[92Turbski]

Dude, this experiment build is bad ass. Stoked to follow along.

Ugh, the f***ing wiring decisions people make....brutal. Nice job squaring all of that shit up!

 

[Stapl3]

This car fell victim to an unheated garage through the winter. I have many updates to post soon.

Today I made a tool for push lock fittings. I have never dealt with making hoses like this as I have gone VERY far with stock stuff, but situations came up. Push lock seemed like my kinda method. Assembly by hand proved to be shit, and tools were a few hundred bucks.

Success! Next is to make it work for other sizes.

 

[Stapl3]

Studs > bolts. Installed some TB gaskets I snagged at the SO for cheap. I have used this material lots over the past 15 years and it's awesome, but I have learned the hard way that this material needs an even clamping force that doesn't want much torque as it will easily bulge. Studs and new locking washers is the ticket.

Maybe I had a bad batch of E85 because this is new to me, but the corrosion was awful. I cleaned the injectors in my 'diy station' and then did the same with the rail. Probably going to use some conditioner in the tank with E, or put in a gallon of 105 for every 10 gallons of E. Not sure yet but this sucked to discover. The fuel filter will be tossed next after I drain the tank.

polished to black.

I replaced every coolant hose which was very satisfying. Aside of the stock clamps on the lower rad hose that I restored, which I'll say are actually pretty awesome now that I spent some time with them, I bought a bunch of new clamps. No going back after using these. Well, maybe something a little less aggressive, but normal worm gear clamps are a complete joke after this.

Before/after the Feal Coilovers. And some Hoosiers.

The rear camber is a hair too negative for my liking but that ride height is money. I priced out making rear tubular control arms and it came out to over 400! So, I'll probably just try the Vfaq method.

Because the tires would eat themselves in a day if the alignment is off, I'm very tempted to just replace all the ball joints, tie rods, etc etc etc before going for an alignment. But, I kinda hate to open more cans of worms at this point as it is a few days away from May and I do want to drive the thing.

Up next, rear diff fluid, new brake lines, drain the fuel tank, button up everything on the engine, and who knows. I'm very much in the middle of the last 10% takes 90% of the time.

 

[1cleangsx]

Between you and Marty you guys have some crazy stuff going on at your local e85 stations , I’ve been running pump e85 since 2015 or so here in Wyoming and I’ve NEVER seen the goo in my fuel like that, the inside of my factory fuel tank looks new, fuel filter check, and between 2 different trips to FIC my 2150’s were fine before cleaning/servicing, not knocking you OR your car, but I know depending on where you live in the country the ethanol comes from different plants and it makes one wonder

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I sold a Cyclone intake just like that back in October. Surely that isn't it but here is a picture. Does yours work like you wanted it to? Just interested in it's functionality.

 

[Stapl3]

Between you and Marty you guys have some crazy stuff going on at your local e85 stations , I’ve been running pump e85 since 2015 or so here in Wyoming and I’ve NEVER seen the goo in my fuel like that, the inside of my factory fuel tank looks new, fuel filter check, and between 2 different trips to FIC my 2150’s were fine before cleaning/servicing, not knocking you OR your car, but I know depending on where you live in the country the ethanol comes from different plants and it makes one wonder

It wasn't the black goo, it was white and crusty. Looks like a chemical reaction with the aluminum itself.

I sold a Cyclone intake just like that back in October. Surely that isn't it but here is a picture. Does yours work like you wanted it to? Just interested in it's functionality.

I think the 1g head was designed for the cyclone manifold and we got the crummy 1g manifold here in America instead. I like that the cyclone manifold flows exactly the same up top as a 1g manifold, but offers the ability for the low end performance. I guess it's kinda like VTEC but happening in a different part of the system.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

On the E85 note, my issue was a clear goo like fish slime. It plugged up my 10 micron filter but I really don't know where it came/comes from. I put that car back on gasoline for a while since it has a broken main shaft in the auto trans that needs fixed and I didn't want E sitting in the 2150 injectors.

 

[Stapl3]

Got it all buttoned up and it fired right away, but this thing idles at like 2500-3000. I cannot get it lower. I cannot get it to hold even 1psi on a boost leak test with the tester hooked directly to the TB elbow. I cannot feel or see an open nipple on the manifold, I cannot think of one that would exist that I left open. I don't feel any sort of breeze where air is rushing out during the test under the manifold, but admittedly can't get my hand 100% in there. Soapy water revealed nothing. I do have access to a smoke machine but have never used it. I fear there is something up with the manifold, or there's an aftermarket port that I didn't catch, or the manifold > head gasket is flipped but man that would be insane to me to mess up.

After running and using a thermo gun to the exhaust manifold, runners 1 and 3 are significantly colder than 2 and 4. I know this doesn't track with the firing order so I did swap in many coil packs and went through my entire box of 20+ plug wires to rule that out, but it's dancing around the denial of the problem. Bottom line is there is air entering the manifold post the TB and I'll probably have to pull it. Major letdown.

 

[Stapl3]

Well there's no smoking gun with the manifold itself. I'll figure out a way to pressure test it before reinstalling.

The gasket I used was metal OEM, but the way it sealed looks a little questionable now that I am closely looking at it. I think it needs to compress to seal, but when youre blindly tightening the bolts on the manifold its hard to tell when youre compressing or overtightening. I would maybe use this style gasket if the engine was pulled and I could really see what was going on. I'll be using a composite on reinstall.

 

[Stapl3]

Ok, now I have answers. Today I made a block-off plate for the manifold out of aluminum bar stock. Another "dsm" special tool to have I suppose.

The first test was with the OEM Mitsu metal gasket that I was using on the car. It leaked like crazy in the middle of the runners; between the bolts. No amount of torqueing the bolts or anything like that would have saved it. I doubt copper spray would have helped. And yes every metal flange in play is flat. This is what was giving me my problems assembled on the engine and no possibility to build pressure during a boost leak test.

The second test was with a cheap composite FelPro gasket. It's super thin, thinner than a dime. This gasket resulted in a complete and successful seal.

So unless there is a procedure I do not know of, I will be avoiding the OEM Mitsu intake manifold gasket at all costs.

 

[1cleangsx]

That’s interesting, I wonder if the oem metal gasket would seal better with heat? On the exhaust side, I know from experience the aftermarket copper “Mr Gasket” copper leaked on mine with the FP manifold, whereas the oem multi layer was rock solid, go figure

 

[Stapl3]

I am getting REALLY good at swapping the intake manifold, and I hope I don't have to do it again anytime soon. That bottom 12mm bolt on the driver side is nightmare fuel. I just cannot get my forearm in far enough to touch the thing and the backside of my hand looks like I got in a fight with a cat.

Anyways I did reinstall the cyclone manifold and all said and done, it did the exact same thing. It idles fantastic, everything in 'link is very stable, but it idles at 3000rpm . Upon removal I closely inspected the composite gasket and it just wasn't compressing on the outer sides of runner 1 and 4. I put the bolts on hella tight this time around too. I checked the head and manifold with a straight edge and it is all visually good.

So, just out of frustration with the damn thing I decided to reinstall the stock 1g IM. I just now put it on the engine and it seems to seat better to the head. The cyclone would seat on the head but with a slight gap biased to the bottom that would disappear with tightening the bolts.. The stock manifold doesn't have that gap when first placed on the head. I have absolutely no idea what is up with the whole thing. Should I ever pull this engine out I will retry the Cyclone again but I am so very done putting that thing on with the engine in the car.

Manifold was ultrasonic tanked with boiling water and cleaner, followed by etching primer, normal primer, color, high temp clear before finding it's way back to the car.