50 trim installed, finally!

[sarge]

I picked up one of the Precision turbo SCM 50 trim turbos about 2 months ago (the one rated for 450hp). Jay and matt (if you are in the carolinadsm club you have probably met these two guys) were kind enough to install my turbo on christmas day. the 50 trim replaced my frank Jr. 17c turbo. The 17c was a pretty good turbo, but I decided I wanted to go to something bigger.

Well, later on christmas day i picked the car up. Boost was set at 12psi, and it was incredibly strong there, roughly like 17-19psi on the 17c. Several days after that i messed around with the wastegate actuator arm and got the base boost level up to 15psi. 15psi on this thing is fast. About as fast as the supercharged roush stage 3 mustang. I happened to run into one on the highway about a week ago, and from 60-140mph, he had less than 2 cars on me. Later I talked to the guy and his mustang put down 328.8whp, and ran the 1/8th mile in 8.07, so I am guessing that my car is making somewhere close to 300whp. Thats just a rough guess though.

The pte 50 trim w/.63 ar is an excellent turbo. I have this in conjunction with the dejon tool 3 inch intake. I can hit full boost in 2nd gear at less than 4000rpm, and in gears 3-5, it hits full boost by about 3600-3700rpm. Very impressive for a turbo that size i think. Currently its pretty untuned. I took the SAFC settings for a big 16g equipped car and 550's and FMIC from RRE, and just added several % more fuel in the 4-7500rpm range. EGT's peak at about 850C on runs from 0-120mph. I was planning on on having the car dyno tuned at 17-18psi, but my car started to burn more oil than usual (valve stem seals are starting to go, 120k miles on them). So instead I will have the head rebuilt on my car, then probably in the summer get it dynotuned after the head rebuild. Or, if you guys think that dynotuning will still be effective on a car that has bad valve stem seals/guides i may go ahead and have it done.

I didn't see any good reviews of these turbos, so I figured I would write one. Tell me what you guys think!

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Originally posted by spooling95gst
How does the PTE 50 trim compare to the FP Green turbo? i was going to get the green turbo, but i want to know howthis turbo compares! Thanks!

The PTE 50 trim and the Green should make very similar numbers. The 50 trim wheel is more at home in the T04E compressor housing found on the PTE unit whereas the 50trim resides in a Mitsu comp. housing on the Green. However, the Green enjoys a slight advantage with a larger turbine wheel, the TD06H vs. a T31 turbine wheel for the PTE. That's why the PTE spools up a bit quicker, smaller turbine wheel.

On paper, you can see the differences. Theoretically, power output is a wash. However, the reliability of the PTE units comes into question. A number of them are needing rebuilds rather quickly. Seems the small shaft that the PTE uses can't withstand repeated abuse. The Green/Red turbos use a larger shaft for the wheels, that can take the abuse. I haven't heard of an FP turbo needing a rebuild due to part failure (within a reasonable timeframe).

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Originally posted by Gooberlog
Sarge- the turbo you bought was the scm50 right? what a/r trim did you get, and what a/r trim would you recomend for my mods. did you buy yours from PTE or antoher vendor. i saw pte had thiers for abou $995
Anyone have feedback with SBR on their pte 50 trim from there?
thanks

The SCM50 only comes in ONE A/R. It's very close to the 7cm a/r of .49. Lots of sites list the option of .48 or .63 a/r with your turbine housing, but that's ONLY when you order the T3 turbine housing (which would be the SC50, not the SCM50). There is only ONE housing available for the Mitsu bolt on turbo. ONE.

Lots of vendors are now selling the SCMXX turbos for $800 with an external and $850 for internal gate. And those prices are SHIPPED.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Originally posted by sarge
i
also, i get no boost creep with the internal gate on my 50 trim. if its set on 15psi, sometimes it might hit closer to 16psi and then fall back to its set level of 15psi, but it does not hit 15psi, then creep up to 17-18psi. i have the stock O2 housing with no porting done and it seems to be working nicely

Did you get the turbine housing with the machined divider? I'm betting you did in order to run boost levels that low with no creep. Also the stock o2 housing may be helping you control the creep. Put a bigger o2 housing on and see what happens.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Originally posted by Gooberlog
Sounds good. If i do end up getting a 50trim style turbo, i will eventualy get 660's 3"exhaust, and EVNETUALY FMIC. Thanks for the input sarge. My 14b will creep from 14-19 psi and now sometimes from 18-21psi. Thanks for the help guys, keep us updated.
Gooberlog

PORT THE WASTEGATE HOLE!!!!!!! Solves ALL boost creep problems. I promise.

 

[44pirate]

Originally posted by NOSLO2PT0
Did you get the turbine housing with the machined divider? I'm betting you did in order to run boost levels that low with no creep. Also the stock o2 housing may be helping you control the creep. Put a bigger o2 housing on and see what happens.

I've got the the PTE with the divider machined out plus the EVO 3 O2 ported to the max. With the acuator arm set loose I could hold 10 psi to redline. Since I tightened it up I hold 15psi to red line. On pump I hold 21 to redline with race gas I hold 26 to redline. This turbo really comes alive when you get it up over 20psi.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Originally posted by AL92
Interesting results.Please don't take this the wrong way but what kind of dyno is that?? I know some dynos read way lower than others. I just read an article where a stock evo put out like 255whp .I realize the evos run like 18psi or something stock but how can these 50 trims put out 450 engine and think I even saw where they said 500 at the engine if you can't even pull 300 with one at the wheels.

Import tuner got lke 290whp out of a 14b at like 16psi and six mods..
now even though some people say that is bull well I am still wondering
what do you have to have to get 400whp or even 370 or so out of a 50trim.I am starting to wonder if I should have bought a bigger one.

I don't even have my 50 trim on my car yet and am getting a bit worried here.What are all your other mods? You already have a big fmic? Mabye you are running out of fuel.Also what is maxium useable boost out of these 50trims with race gas? I guess if you could get 30psi out of them then that would add like another 100hp maybe at the wheels? And when they talk 450 engine is that with cams,different intake manifold ,what exactly.
I thought these 50 trims kicked big butt and took no prisoners even on pump gas.

Also I think I read another article on here where guy dynoed in the 350 to think 375 range whp with a 50 trim and he had low compression or something wrong with his engine.Have you checked compression on yours.I think you said your valve seals were shot..??

Also on agps site they have a dyno of a 50 trim car on pump gas that is at 500whp.Not sure what mods it has they are being a bit secretive but mabye since I just got an RS49 they will clue me in.I would think that one has cams,etc.But no mention of nitrous.

Again apoligize and don't want to hurt any feelings here.Just trying to understand a few things.I am a bit new to the dsm thing.Although not new to hopping up cars.

Don't take one person's dyno results as gospel, especially on here. Everyone's level of tuning ability differs, therefore reported dyno #'s will vary as well. Yes, dre did do 503whp on a "50 trim". What exactly was in that turbo is still a mystery to everyone. What you don't know is that in order to achieve that #, streetability of the turbo was sacrificed. That 50 trim acts more like a 60-1 on the street. Spools up very late, power comes on very late as well. All has to do with the cam timing, etc.

Typical, good results with a Green are somewhere in the ballpark of 350fwhp on 93 octane. Some people won't dyno this high since they don't have the ability to tune the car as well as others, while some simply don't turn the boost up. If you were as good as JDMAWD, you could run 26psi, pump gas, with no knock. Who knows what #'s you would put down, because you would actually have to dyno the setup. But if you are making anything less than 350whp on 93 octane on a Green, you either don't have cams/intake, or you aren't running enough boost and tuning the car good enough. 400whp on pump gas and a Green is a very good # to shoot for. If you can do that, consider yourself a good "tooner".

As far as how much boost you cn run on race gas, 30psi is about the limit of the 50 trim wheel. Go any higher and you are just blowing hot air. As of now, the 50trim IS one of the best pump gas turbos out there. However, with the new Dual ball bearing ballistic GT stuff coming out, they are making strides big time. I know a while back, Forced Performance did 45xWHP on a FP3065, at only 21psi. They cranked it up to about 24psi, and were running in the neighborhood of 470whp, on pump gas, with very little effort to tune the car. An FP3065 is not a pump gas turbo.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Originally posted by 44pirate
I've got the the PTE with the divider machined out plus the EVO 3 O2 ported to the max. With the acuator arm set loose I could hold 10 psi to redline. Since I tightened it up I hold 15psi to red line. On pump I hold 21 to redline with race gas I hold 26 to redline. This turbo really comes alive when you get it up over 20psi.

Anyone ever tell you HOW the machining of the turbine housing helps control boost creep? It has NOTHING to do with the exhaust flow through the wastegate hole. It all has to do with the efficiency of exhaust flow through the turbine housing. The exhaust gases pass through the wastegate hole, and instead of exiting via a dumptube, or farther down the exhaust stream in a smoother transition, they basically flow right into the exhaust path at a 90 deg. angle. This basically kills the exhaust velocity and efficiency, creating huge backpressure issues. This kills the ability of the turbo to FLOW air. That's the reason why this mod "works". It DOES stop boost creep, but it does it by sacrificing airflow. I hope I explained it in a way that you can understand.

 

[44pirate]

Originally posted by NOSLO2PT0
Anyone ever tell you HOW the machining of the turbine housing helps control boost creep? It has NOTHING to do with the exhaust flow through the wastegate hole. It all has to do with the efficiency of exhaust flow through the turbine housing. The exhaust gases pass through the wastegate hole, and instead of exiting via a dumptube, or farther down the exhaust stream in a smoother transition, they basically flow right into the exhaust path at a 90 deg. angle. This basically kills the exhaust velocity and efficiency, creating huge backpressure issues. This kills the ability of the turbo to FLOW air. That's the reason why this mod "works". It DOES stop boost creep, but it does it by sacrificing airflow. I hope I explained it in a way that you can understand.

How much airflow efficiency are we talking about? How would this affect HP #'s and spool up. I spool 21 psi at 3400 rpm. I get positive psi at 2600 rpm.

 

[AL92]

Well did a lot of reading on the other forums too and DREs website and posts.

So it is a 50 trim agp with t04e housing.They are keeping a few details secret.The guy has 1g head,hks 272s and magnus sheet metal intake.standalone tuning to.Was running water injection but for some strange reason not anymore. Something about secret spark plugs..figure likely cooler iridiums maybe? And runs low timing and lots of injector..96 % on his 720s he said.And think said 10 to 1 af.
Oh and of course big fmic and like 23 psi I think I read.

So some pieces of the puzzle of how to get big numbers out of a 50 trim on a 2g.Oh yeah forged pistons at 8.5 to 1 dropped a bit with thicker gasket.

So guess my 1 g is ahead of the 2gs a bit with better intake and head but behind a bit with lower compression.

Wonder how laggy that magnus intake manifold is on the street.???
Supposedly just the magus intake man was good for like 68 hp.!!

 

[sarge]

Originally posted by AL92
Well did a lot of reading on the other forums too and DREs website and posts.

So it is a 50 trim agp with t04e housing.They are keeping a few details secret.The guy has 1g head,hks 272s and magnus sheet metal intake.standalone tuning to.Was running water injection but for some strange reason not anymore. Something about secret spark plugs..figure likely cooler iridiums maybe? And runs low timing and lots of injector..96 % on his 720s he said.And think said 10 to 1 af.
Oh and of course big fmic and like 23 psi I think I read.

So some pieces of the puzzle of how to get big numbers out of a 50 trim on a 2g.Oh yeah forged pistons at 8.5 to 1 dropped a bit with thicker gasket.

So guess my 1 g is ahead of the 2gs a bit with better intake and head but behind a bit with lower compression.

Wonder how laggy that magnus intake manifold is on the street.???
Supposedly just the magus intake man was good for like 68 hp.!!

good lord, that magnus intake is ballsy, time to go sell my left kidney and get one

i found that FP has evo 3 o2 for like 130bucks, might have to pick that up too

 

[myblack98gst]

these are the same turbos that Dejon tool sells correct?? if so I can get them cheaper for my fellow DSM'ers. send me a email for more info

[email protected]

and by the way, I have ridden in a 2g GSX with some supporting mods including Dejon Tools Racing front mount 550's @ AFC2. this turbo does pul VERY NICE.. my big 16g MAY be able to keep up BUT that would be my 16 @ 20+ vs. his 60 trim at 15 psi..

I WILL be getting one of these in the near future..

 

[DSMNightmare]

Originally posted by sarge
it was dynoed using a dynojet dyno

yeah the turbo is rated at 450 crank hp, right now i am making 337hp at the crank


with minor things like ported 02, a 7cm gasket (to replace my too small 6cm gasket), and new and colder plugs i bet i could hit 300whp easily



the turbo probably produces 30psi or more max, i made 337 crank hp at 20psi, going from 15psi to 20psi netted me 87 crank hp (40whp),

if i had the ported pieces and cams, i would probably be making a bunch more hp, and my motor is stock and old, so no way i am gonna try to run more than 20psi on it

I was considering this turbo at one time but I have a few questions. What compression is your engine seeing right now? Also what did your AFRs look like on that dyno run? The reason I ask is because I netted 335hp to the wheels with a 20G on pump gas so if I'm not going to see that much more then I may consider a larger turbo.

If your engine is in good shape I see no reason why you could not see 350hp from that turbo.

 

[sarge]

^ as we've been talking about before, there is no way to make that HP on my car without me first getting the head rebuilt, and getting rid of the stock 02, stock 2g throttle body, stock 6cm gasket and stock 2g intake manifold

you are correct, if my compression was good (its probably not) and i had the proper parts on my car, the turbo should easily make that amount of HP, and i have full confidence that it will make those numbers or better once i get the right parts on the car

my air/fuel ratio was 11.5/12:1 in the rpm range that mattered


this was never meant to be a "look how much power my car can make thread," its pretty much a look what bolting this turbo onto a pretty much stock car does

 

[1stGENracer]

Damn you guys for making this post, I was trying to find a way to get a cheaper turbo setup then this one, now you guys convinced me that I have to have this turbo. I will be running engine management with mine though.

 

[powerdbydsm]

If any of you are interested I am selling a brand new setup.

Turbonetics t3/t4 50 trim .48 ar stage 3 wheel 360 ceramic berring oil cooled with Turbonetics exhaust manifold, Deltagate 2 external wastegate with 14 pound spring and dump tube, o2 housing, braided oil line, oil return tube.

$1400 for the complete setup.

Here is some pics of the setup.

http://www.clubmitsubishi.com/P1010001.JPG

http://www.clubmitsubishi.com/P1010002.JPG

http://www.clubmitsubishi.com/P1010003.JPG

 

[Spyke169]

I was looking at the Precision T & E SCM 50-Trim Turbo with the internal wastegate at extremepsi.com I was just wondering what the difference is in the exhaust housing option? They offer divided and undivided. What does that even mean? and what one is best?
Thanks,
Nick

 

[CSSMiketsi]

Originally posted by EclipseGST-95
...thats the biggest freakin turbo ive ever seen...thats freakin nuts....i thought that they didnt look much bigger then the 20 g looks but damn that thing looks like it came outa a freakin dart bus...nice dude..u should try converting to awd next...

If you think that's big....

Here's a pic of my AGP 50 trim next to my friends SP74...

http://community.webshots.com/photo/77140541/117048914KhrBkx

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Originally posted by Spyke169
I was looking at the Precision T & E SCM 50-Trim Turbo with the internal wastegate at extremepsi.com I was just wondering what the difference is in the exhaust housing option? They offer divided and undivided. What does that even mean? and what one is best?
Thanks,
Nick

Undivided is usually used in an internally gated application. It allows for lower boost levels to be run, but at the expense of turbo efficiency. The divided housing is for those that run an external gate. The Divided housing is best.

 

[Spyke169]

is there ever a point on the 50trim when it is better to be externally gated? because from what it sounds like there is no boost creep. if I were to get one would it be better to get the divided housing if I wante to later upgrade to external? how low of boost are we talking 15?

 

[44pirate]

Originally posted by NOSLO2PT0
Undivided is usually used in an internally gated application. It allows for lower boost levels to be run, but at the expense of turbo efficiency. The divided housing is for those that run an external gate. The Divided housing is best.

Define this efficency in HP #'s or whatever do you mean by turbo efficiency.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

The turbos ability to expel the exhaust gasses. That air coming from the wastegate area is flowing directly into the exhaust gas path at a 90 deg. angle. The exhaust flow coming off the turbine wheel is hitting it directly, and causing it to back up slightly. That's backpressure, in a way. If the air can't get OUT of the engine, fresh air can't get IN. It's like sticking a restriction in the exhaust path.

So, in essence, you aren't flowing more air out of the wastegate hole to keep boost creep down (which is the reasoning behind porting the WG hole on an internal gated turbo), you are creating a restriction in the airflow line, which doesn't allow the turbo to spool up as quickly, or flow as efficiently.

God, I hope I explained that correctly.

 

[dsmturboawd]

Originally posted by 1badtsi
its internally gated

care to explain why you rolled your eyes. thank you.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

If you want the best setup, buy an external gate. Internal gates are for people that want to save money by compromising. You are compromising boost control for a lesser dollar amt. OR, turn the boost up to 20psi, like you should be running, and quit whining about boost creep. Why would you slap on a big turbo like a 50 trim and run low boost? If you wanted low boost, you should have kept the 16G.

 

[dsmturboawd]

right. if the turbo is run like its intended, then an internal is perfectly fine.

 

[AL92]

I just got my new polished AGPRS49 in the mail yesterday.It looks like a nice piece.I cheaped out and went with internal gate so see how it works with my evo non ported o2.

I was running like 20psi on my 14b the other day and it seemed fine.
So hopefully it will also be fine running the 50 trim.

Be a few weeks likely before I can get the turbo on my car and can maybe give a review on it.

I have a little problem with a rear wheel bearing that went bad and wrecked my trailing arm,stubby axle and flange and caliper and bracket.