4G63T in NA Questions

[fourgsixthree33]

My friend has a 93 Eagle Talon ESi. He blew the timing belt a couple years back so I pulled the motor for him. Since then, he hasn't done a damn thing to it. We have been into many fights because he disses on DSM's so much. I am the kinda guy that doesn't take that to well.

Anyway, he found a motor for it. He called me up yesterday asking if a 4G63T engine would work in the ESi. He just wants it to be a NA. I told him he would need to use his NA exhaust manny, intake pipe, and his NA injectors.

I know this is a complete waste of time for him. He should just turbo the damn thing and convert everything to make it a TSi. But, he is....dumb? Yes, I know I am a great friend haha. But seriously, why the hell would you waste your time. If you get a 4G63T complete engine, you might as well keep it turbo, get the ecu, engine harness, etc. But that isn't something he wants to do.

So, he would just need to use the NA exhaust manny, intake pipe, and injectors right? Or are there other things? I know the head and engine internals are a little different but it wouldn't affect anything would it?

 

[whe3ls]

personly id turbo it.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

personly id turbo it.

I am sure I will get many replies saying the same thing. It's just dumb not to! You have the entire engine to make it turbo, so you should just get the ecu, engine harness, etc. and turbo it! But, he won't. Why? Not a damn clue.

 

[big_d]

You don't need to switch harnesses. It's the simple matter of adding a few wires. Do some searching on the conversion and you'll find it's quite easy.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

You don't need to switch harnesses. It's the simple matter of adding a few wires. Do some searching on the conversion and you'll find it's quite easy.

Really? Wow. Yea I will do some searching. Maybe I can convince him.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Keep it turbo; the turbo engine has lower compression pistons which would probably make it a real dog with the turbo missing.

All you really need is an ECU and three wires.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

Keep it turbo; the turbo engine has lower compression pistons which would probably make it a real dog with the turbo missing.

All you really need is an ECU and three wires.

What about fuel pump, fuel pressure solenoid, t-stat housing, and all oil lines etc. I believe the coolant crossover pipes are different. Like the t-stat housing how it has more lines running to it. I will do some searching. I will basically be the one doing all of this for my friend. He's clueless about DSM's.

 

[Below Ambient]

using a turbo engine is a great start! im pretty sure youll need the whole turbo setup including the tstat housing, coolant lines, ECU, MAF, etc... most of these parts you can buy new from the dealer

 

[fourgsixthree33]

Yea I dont see him running much boost on this. I am worried more about the drivetrain. Like the NA transmission. Eeek. Maybe he can get the tranny too.

 

[MathixPerforman]

I have personally done the esi to tsi swap and I will tell you its the best thing I ever did. As far as the tranny goes, you can you the n/t tranny but you will need like a stage 1 disc. Even at that it still won't hold up like a turbo tranny. I got mine for about $150. The stock n/a fuel pump will hold up fine to the 450cc stock turbo injectors. The whole swap is pretty painless even if you swap to a turbo harness.

 

[92AWDHX40]

I swapped my turbo into my na, it took a while but it was fairly easy.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

Thanks for all the input guys. I spoke with my friend today and I told him he was dumb not to turbo it. He said, "Yea, that's what I wanna do". So..yea. How many hours do you think it took you guys to do the entire swap?

 

[GrattinoDSM]

I've done the swap as well, and actually am parting it out right now here's my add if he needs anything if he decides to do the swap

1G Part Out - DSM Classifieds

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Thanks for all the input guys. I spoke with my friend today and I told him he was dumb not to turbo it. He said, "Yea, that's what I wanna do". So..yea. How many hours do you think it took you guys to do the entire swap?

I've done the swap too, check out my blog. Also I see your friend has now changed his mind but just to affirm what colt4g63 said, a turbo engine without a turbo would equal fail. The non turbo 4g63 has 9.0:1 pistons while the turbo has 7.8:1. You do not want to be running around with 7.8:1 pistons while naturally aspirated.

Hope this helps!

 

[Drifte]

I had an ES converted to Turbo. It's not hard to do, but you have to know what parts you need. There have been several write ups that should get you a good start. If he hasnt purchased a turbo engine yet, just find him another nt engine, they are cheap.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

Yea you fella's have been a big help. I like getting usefull information. It's amazing how much I learn here each and every day. I will checkout your blog's and write ups.

 

[92AWDHX40]

It depends on you your tools no time frame took me months but i waited on parts. Plus i had my engine rebuilt.

 

[98dsmkid]

let me get this rite...he said he doesn't want it turbo i kno he's your friend and all but bro i hope your gunna charge him for the work. thats a 1st for me to hear WTF ...changing a turbo'd engine and making it a n/t....

 

[e85_4g63]

I'm in PA, not sure how far from you, but I've done many many N/A to turbo conversions, I could help you out if needed.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Yea you fella's have been a big help. I like getting usefull information. It's amazing how much I learn here each and every day. I will checkout your blog's and write ups.

Since it looks like you are back to swapping to to turbo, here is some more info on converting the n/a wire harness to a turbo harness. I'm quoting myself from another thread:

Yes there is a difference but you can modify the N/A harness to work. You will still need a turbo ECU though.

Check out this tech article that mavisky wrote: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/37019-installing-turbo-4g63-into-nt-4g63.html

what you'll need to wire in:

7th wire from mas - the 7th wire from the mas needs to be run back to pin number 6

knock sensor - one wire can be grounded to the engine bay somehow, the other white wire needs to be run back to pin number 9 on the ecu.

wastegate solenoid - one wire here will be grounded, the other returns to the ecu at pin number 105

injector resistance pack - this is the most dificult. i'll let the following pictures describe it rather than trying to explain it in text. if you have any questions just ask.

And here is a tech article by TimG on how to wire the injector resister pack on a 1g n/t harness: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-electrical-wiring/174314-injector-resistor-pack-wiring-1g-n-t-turbo-conversion.html

Hope this helps!

Here is my blog: DSM Forums - 1g Non-turbo -> Turbo swap

Also the swap should be abel to be done in about a weekend, once all of the preparation is done. The preparation and planning are the key though. If you don't put in the time gathering the correct parts and doing it right then chances are you will be very unhappy at best. You will need the turbo ECU, MAS, t-stat housing, water pipe, oil cooler... the classifieds are going to be your best friend.

using a turbo engine is a great start! im pretty sure youll need the whole turbo setup including the tstat housing, coolant lines, ECU, MAF, etc... most of these parts you can buy new from the dealer

Getting a MAS and ECU new from the dealer would cost more then your car and engine put together (and probably most of your tools too). From a dealership the MAS would be over $500 and an ECU would be around a grand. Classifieds, classifieds, classifieds. Or if you have a nice junkyard (or 2 or 3) near you that would help as well.

As far as the transmission, They are different transmissions; The 1g non-turbo trans (5 speed) is F5M22 and the turbo trans (5 speed) is F5M33. You can bolt the non-turbo transmission up to the turbo block but how long it will last depends on how much power you will be making. I would recommend using the turbo transmission (F5M33).

Hope all this helps!

 

[fourgsixthree33]

I'm in PA, not sure how far from you, but I've done many many N/A to turbo conversions, I could help you out if needed.

I am about an hour and a half north of williamsport. I have never been to Lancaster but I know it's not too far away. We would apreiciate the help!

Thanks for that but of info. I believe he is getting everything from a junkyard. He is kind of buddies with a guy that owns one. So he is always giving him good deals. So, I just need to make a list of parts for him to get.