4G63510

[4G63510]

This is the Build Thread for 4G63510. Reply below.

 

[curt-s]

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This is my second dream. Definitely keeping an eye on this one.

 

[4G63510]

I have build threads on Ratsun.net and The510Realm.com of my car. I've done all of the work myself and even learned to TIG weld well enough to build an intercooler and coolant pipes. I built an entire custom harness so I didn't have to worry about 30yr old wires and broken connectors. It's a blast to drive, but also a bit rough if driven slowly.

My current struggle is a potentially ruined engine. I posted about a potential rebuild and any thoughts on it. I'm looking for all of the "tricks" to try and make it reliable.

Future dream plans are 2" wide flares to fit 245 tires and potentialy change the entire suspension design and goemetry. Time will tell.

 

[IHeartMyHonda]

Hey man! Cool to see you sharing your build with the Tuners community! There is a ton of information here, so hopefully the decades of posts can help you resolve your engine issues. And if you need a hand with anything locally, don't hesitate to reach out.

 

[4G63510]

I thought I'd add some 4G specific updates here. I've been using a stock DSM oil pan for the past 25k miles, and I should have been using a 4G64 pan from a MM/D50. As I'm making this swap, I'm adding some baffling. The DSM pan doesn't really have any, but it does have this "splash plate" that I'm cutting out to use. I need to open the hole in ti for the new pickup tube, as it's much larger than the DSM unit.

I'm also switching out my turbo setup. What started as a Slowboy Racing GT11, which apparently is an HKS/Garrett GT2971R or something, is being replaced by a Forced Performance 68HTA v3. The size comparison is comical. I'm hoping for better spool to better suit the type of drving I do.
On a side note, you might see that the compressor cover is no longer a Garrett unit. After a bearing race let go and chewed up the compressor wheel and cover, I rebuilt it with some aftermarket parts.

 

[IHeartMyHonda]

Any shavings in the pan when you pulled it off?

 

[4G63510]

Any shavings in the pan when you pulled it off?

I found my typical sparkle and a couple of small flakes. Nothing I'm concerned about. I'm just going to run with this setup and use Valvoline VR1 20W-50 oil. If it gets worse, I'll deal with it or if I find something while I'm doing all of this work.

 

[curt-s]

68HTAv3 huh.. I'm making a switch to it over here as well. I'm interested in how it will work for you.

 

[4G63510]

Progress has been slow due to lack of motivation from frustration of getting this oil pan situated. Removing the stock baffling with a spot weld drill bit resulted in some small holes in the oil pan. I tried to fix this with some careful tig welding. I suck, so I tried to tig braze some silicon bronze. It got worse. I cut out the offending portion and tigged a new piece in. It's not pretty and I definitely wouldn't say I'm proud of it, but it seems to hold liquids.
I then attempted to put a Tomei DIY baffle kit in. I can see why no one makes one of these for the 4G63. It's a huge pain. But probably the most frustrating part of the whole ordeal was just getting the oil control flaps in place. There is NO space in here to make this happen and they are too tight of a fit. My only advice for anyone else doing this is to install the flaps before you weld in the baffle plates. Pulling the flaps through the hole is the best method and basically the only thing that works.
So far I've just stared the car for a few minutes to check for leaks and flush out debris. I'll be doing an oil change and getting on the road tonight to see how things worked out with the oil pan and the turbo.

 

[4G63510]

So the oil pan doesn't hold oil as well as it should. It's not too bad, but it's definitely got a leak from my crap welds. I guess it's time to break out the JB weld and get to painting :/

Another issue that has been perplexing me is some erratic oil pressure readings. The car seems normal under driving conditions, but at idle when fully warmed up, the oil pressure routinely drops below 10psi. A slight bump in engine speed easily brings it up past 20psi, but it's been bothering me. So much so, that I have considered a rebuild and started a thread trying to find all of the "tricks".

But I think I've got it nailed down. I have my oil pressure and turbo oil feed teed from the same fitting. I have a line running to the oil pressure sensor to remote mount it. I'm thinking that at idle, the sensor isn't getting enough flow to create the correct pressure reading. I do have another 3/8" BSPT to -4AN fitting I can mount up to double check it, but this is my "educated" guess. I went back and watched a Jafromobile video where he is comparing all of the OFH options. My EVO3 unit has 2- 3/8" BSPT ports and I'm neglecting one of them.

Other than that, my current mod seems to work. I'll get more "data" when I do another track day or autocross. First I need to gather data for the new turbo. I'll take some pics of how I set up the 68HTA V3 (they need a better name) for RWD. It definitely spools a bit faster than the previous setup, but I haven't gotten into it yet. Until next time...

 

[curt-s]

Can always refer to it by its other name, the 6851S. I might when I put mine on this spring

 

[4G63510]

I got the car out this weekend for some logs. It runs great, but I might have some boost creep. It is much more responsive than the other unit I had, which is exactly what I'm looking for. I can build about 5psi of boost in 5th gear between 2500-2800rpm. There's not real reason to do that, I just wanted data in that range and to see what the turbo would do. Intake temps stayed rock solid at about 74F with ambient temps in the 65-70F range.
Here's a poor image of the clocked turbo and compressor outlet tube. The image is turned as well. Yes, I did weld the tube to the flange on the inside. Ignore the crappy worm clamp. That will get replaced soon. My biggest issue was just coolant lines to the turbo. I didn't have an issue on the Garrett unit, but these are a bit closer to the compressor and routing was more difficult. It all worked out in the end. My intake is still super close to the water pump. I'll be working on a cast elbow inlet soon to get better clearance for the 3" intake.

Now to solve my oil leak issue :/

 

[4G63510]

I wanted to try and keep this thread about 4G63 specific things since this is a DSM site, but I thought I'd share a few more things about the car.

In case you're not up on your 4g63 RWD swaps, there are several transmissions to choose from, including some Mitsu specific units from the Mighty Max and Starion. I went the Toyota route and have a R154 from a MKIII Supra turbo. The bellhousing is from Bill Hincher who has been wonderful to the community for years. I can't seem to find any pics of the transmission itself, but I'll try to post something another time.
For now, here's a pic of the clutch setup. It's an ACT Streetlite flywheel and Street pressure plate. The disk is also an ACT unit, but it's a basic Toyota unit that happens to be the same size as the Mitsu unit. The throwout bearing is also a Toyota unit and the slave cylinder is from a T50 transmission from an AE86.

In this pic you can also see that the thermostat housing has a 90 degree outlet from a 1.5L. I have a Tial wastegate off the O2 housing into a full 3" turbo back exhaust.

The water pump and coolant area is tricky. You can see how tight it is in this area. I run a simple hose from the thermostat housing under the manifold in a similar way as a factory DSM. I had to weld an outlet onto a stock waterpump since this generation of 7-bolt never had a RWD waterpump that I'm aware of. I do have an "EVO" style RWD pump I ordered from Austraila sitting on a shelf if I ever change to that style of block.

The radiator is a basic unit that I turned into a "Scirocco" style to keep it tidy. I have never experienced hot coolant temps (knock on wood) with this arrangement. It helps that the car is a brick with a huge flat frontal area.
The intercooler is a 2.25" core that I took from an eBay "Golf GTi-R" unit. It was the only 2.25" core I could find. I had to trim some off the top and make custom endtanks, but it seems to work. I don't have any pics of how far I had to push the grill out, but the grill still fits and looks factory unless you pay close attention.

It has 2.5" intercooler plumbing that is super short. The cold side is just 3 90s with not straight sections. I have a Synapse DV and IAT sensor running Speed Density on ECMLink V3.

I recently also got a Fluidampr since the stock dampeners eventually fail. Not DSM related, but I love my new Partshop Max "Z32" calipers. They were a direct bolt on for my Nissan S12 struts and Z31 front hubs.

There are lots of other small details, but I'm trying to keep it DSM/4G63 related. If you'd like to see more of the other stuff, let me know.

 

[PLDSM]

Dope thread! Love the rwd 4g swap stuff. Another good alternative trans that is easier to source is a t56 as well as a turbo400/350/powerglide.. all would require adapter plate/bellhousing however alot easier to fix the parts/source/durability! Keep the updates coming!

 

[4G63510]

Dope thread! Love the rwd 4g swap stuff. Another good alternative trans that is easier to source is a t56 as well as a turbo400/350/powerglide.. all would require adapter plate/bellhousing however alot easier to fix the parts/source/durability! Keep the updates coming!

When I started this swap back around 2005, the R154 was much more accessable. Ironically, I paid $510 (Datsun 510) for the trans with shipping. Now T56, TKX, TR6060, and many others are common and reasonably priced. I don't do drag racing, so any auto trans is out for me.

 

[4G63510]

I finally got everything back together and took it out for my first autocross event in over 8 months. The FP turbo is great and I just need more confidence when not going straight. The previous turbo was not easy to control. The FP 68HTA v3 is very linear even though boost comes on quick. I'm getting about 12psi at 50% throttle and I'm only running about 16psi to manage traction.

 

[Tina94]

When I started this swap back around 2005, the R154 was much more accessable. Ironically, I paid $510 (Datsun 510) for the trans with shipping. Now T56, TKX, TR6060, and many others are common and reasonably priced. I don't do drag racing, so any auto trans is out for me.

Does your r154 have the most obnoxious 2-3 dogleg ever or is it just me? If you’re aoutocrossing it, have you eliminated that? If so what’d you do?

 

[4G63510]

Does your r154 have the most obnoxious 2-3 dogleg ever or is it just me? If you’re aoutocrossing it, have you eliminated that? If so what’d you do?

It's not that bad. I do have the small issue of hard shifting into 2nd when it's cold. I'm sure it's mostly age and mileage, but none of it is that bad. I would like to try another transmission just to see if mine is that bad. I have no frame of reference for most of the things I have. I do know my clutch is stiff and has a short throw. That's about it.

I do have a Cube short throw shifter in the car with Marlin Crawler shifter bushings (or whatever they're called). It certainly gives a more positive shifter feeling and doesn't make the throw obnoxiously short.

 

[curt-s]

I finally got everything back together and took it out for my first autocross event in over 8 months. The FP turbo is great and I just need more confidence when not going straight. The previous turbo was not easy to control. The FP 68HTA v3 is very linear even though boost comes on quick. I'm getting about 12psi at 50% throttle and I'm only running about 16psi to manage traction.

If you go hard down on throttle what rpm would you say you'd be at for 16psi?
Just trying to gauge as I can't install mine now that it's down for the year

 

[4G63510]

If you go hard down on throttle what rpm would you say you'd be at for 16psi?
Just trying to gauge as I can't install mine now that it's down for the year

It's tough to say. I can try to do some pulls soon to get that data. I'd say I have full boost by 3k rpm, but that's dependant on gearing, load, and such. I'll try some 3rd gear pulls from low rpm to see what happens. I need more logs to send to get tuning help anyway.