420A 420A Bogging out

[Reject]

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Car;
97 Eagle Talon ESI Automatic

Mods;
CAI

Symptoms;
Car has no acceleration between idle and 2,500rpm. Between 3K and 4500rpm it runs just fine. >4500rpm it has no power again. Also, I have noticed that I get a bit better response from the engine if I push the gas pedal to a 1/4 throttle or less. If I get to half throttle it is less effective than at a 1/4.

Replaced already list;

Spark Plugs
Spark Plug Wires
Coil Pack
ICM tested - Good
Coolant Temp Sensor
Thermostat
Fuel Pump
Fuel Filter
Trans flush Filter
CAI
MAP Sensor
EGR Valve
Vacuum tube all around smoked and replaced... Twice now.
Catylictic converter replaced (New)
New Exhaust Header
Front Calipers
Front Rotors
Front Pads

I am running out of ideas.... Help?

 

[1SickAuto]

check the TPS (throttle position sensor). it sounds like your culprit

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

As was said above, check the tps. You can use an oscilloscope to sweep the tps to check for drop outs. If it's severe, you can even use a multimeter You may have a check engine light. If so, have it scanned at an Autozone or some place like that. They do it for free. Just don't expect them to interpret the information. If you need that, find a good shop that does those kinds of repairs and pay the money. Just think of what it may have saved you by now.

I am curious though why the brakes were changed if you are experiencing bogging probrlems. Or was that a separate repair and had nothing to do with this?

Good Luck

 

[Reject]

Original purchase maintainence on the calipers. I bought the car about 3 months ago now with the drag issue. Figured I would check the front and rear brakes while replacing the pads. The day before I planned to do this, the calipers locked up while on the freeway and ended up toasting the rotors.

It has been a fun experiance so far.

Previously, there was also a loud squeel when I got above 60mph on the highway, so it made me think that I may have had a locked up wheel cylinder or a seized caliper or something. Right idea, wrong timing.

And to you good sir.

I work Autozone part time.

No CELs though.

 

[Reject]

Updated;

The TPS ohm swept just fine.
Nice and smooth....

One less sensor on the list...

 

[Reject]

Update;

Cam Shaft Sensor swapped...
Same Issue... WTF

 

[ivatu]

have you checked your o2 sensor? have you checked your fuel pressure?

 

[Reject]

Lets change the question here a little bit, as I do not beleive that this is an engine related issue anymore.

While in neutral, I can rev all the way up and down the tach with no bog, spudder, shutter or hiccup. While in drive there is nothing by way of power.

So, thinking from a drive train issue;

The Calipers are not seized or dragging, they are new. The wheel cylinders and rear shoes were changed along with hardware, full brake bleed 3x. I am assuming that the brake system is not dragging.

Hub assembly / Wheel Bearing? But I would get a howl or groan or some type of noise enough to drag the car correct? Which there are no symptoms of other than drag / no power.

CV axles? I have never had one go out what are the symptoms? I know that "clicking" is a tell tale sign, but do they cause drag when they go out?

Transmission? We wont go there quite yet...

Torque Converter? I have only ran across a torque converter issue in one other car and it created such an terrible shutter that I will never forget it, but I don't know how bad that one was when I saw it or was the innitial signs were... I would assume that Transmission lockup would be affect and power transision from the engine to the transmission... But again, I don't think that would explain the band of power between 3K and 4.5K where it feels like a brand new car...

 

[95'RS-T]

when did this problem start? do you have the old coil pack? if you do put on the old one and take it for a spin.

 

[Reject]

I bought the car with the issue, so I have had it for about 3 months same issue.
The old owner, I'm not sure, I picked it up from an impound auction...

Coil pack is not the answer.

I have used 3 seperate units so far. Mine, The girlfriends, and a brand spanking new one... All the same response...

 

[viperbenz1]

you might be taking off a 2gear my old eclipse use to do that, realy slow at first until you reach high rpm

 

[Reject]

I read about that, but that would not explain the high end wall...
At about 4.5K it's like it hits a brick wall, you have to stand on the pedal to get it past 70mph and it takes probably 1/4 mile to get there from 60mph...

 

[Reject]

Issue update;

I have been driving the car fairly regularly. I figure I will just drive it until what ever the issue is breaks or gets worse so it is easier to identify it.

Now, under normal driving ( not beating on it or anything ) In that 3k-4.5k rpm range that seems to accelerate "fine" I get a strange vibration and almost a growl. Not like the normal exhaust growl, but more like a large industrial fan motor growl... I know that is a BS explaination, but that is the best I have...

Any new ideas?

 

[Reject]

Update;

Finally had my uncle come over and take a look at it. He said that he thought that in the areas of lack of power it was do to too much air being sucked in A/F ratio being screwed and the vehicle running lean.

Keeping in mind that the engine has been smoked 3x now. I would assume that it is not in the vacuum lines. Would a FRP possibly create the issue?

 

[OblivioAssebit]

Bump:

I'm having the same problem with my 2gnt, only with the low rpms tho. I also dont have a muffler on it if that makes any difference.

 

[Reject]

Update;

New Symptom;
Now occationally, I get a High pitched whistle when I get up to 5-6k rpm. Not consistantly, but maybe 1 out of 20 times. When I get the whistle, check engine pops on with P0442. EVAP system leak.

Had the engine smoked this weekend AGAIN. Had the guy pump up the pressure to 15psi. NOTHING leaked. Took it to a shop and had a tech test drive it for an hour and he could not recreate the issue.

Tech's assessment;
Said that at lower RPMs / Low Throttle the car responded fine. Getting past half throttle and upper rpm range caused the car to bog out. He said he had been a tech for 5 years and never saw anything like this that didn't end up being a vacuum leak and then I had to leave to get to work.

Like the above said, the EGR valve was replaced...

 

[Reject]

Updated;

Replaced the EGR Valve Gasket again... Not sure why... Just thought it might help...
Checked the exhaust system... Can't find any leaks, can't see any pinholes... (Dish Soap Trick)

I have come to the conclusion that the whistle only comes while driving. I can wind the car nearly up to redline in neutral and it does nothing. No whistles... Under driving conditions (Passing ) it whistles like crazy and pops the code.

What other components are covered under the P0442 code?
From what I have been told, it is 90% of the time the EGR valve, purge vent solenoid, vacuum lines, Fuel cap, or in our case the dump tube to the intake.

What other components are are included in the "EVAP system control small leak"?

 

[Reject]

I was talking with a guy that owned a 97 Dodge Neon. From what I have been reading, the Neon is kind of like the bastard brother of the 420a in the Talon. Anyway, he was saying that he was having roughly the same issue as me, but his was more temperature sensitive. But after doing, roughly, everything that I have done so far, it turned out to be wires in his wiring harness were arcing and creating problems but never throwing up an engine code. He said he replaced the harness and never had another problem.

Any one else run accross anything like that? Were the wiring harness was visually fine, but the wires inside were damaged?

I have seen the threads about the loom melting and all that, but there are no cracks or anything in the loom...

Also, New symptom;

When I get above 5k rpm I get this strange whistle like a turbine is reving up or something. I let off the gas pedal, it goes away. I press back on and it comes back. Can't get it to do it in neutral or park though....

Ideas?

 

[Bubbs Malone]

This thread is interesting, I have a similar problem, but it is intermitent. I was throwing the same code for small emissions leak, then I messed with hoses conected to the evaporative canister and the codes stopped. I get great acelleration sometimes, but boggs down at other times. I'm currently not throwing codes, but have a possible suspension issue that might be causing the bogging. When I leave a driveway, I get some shifting that seems to change how the car performs.

 

[calebjying]

@Reject, did you ever solve the issue?

I have this car I bought recently that has the same problem. It has boost leak but still makes 12-16psi which isn't ever used since it bogs at 4500+rpm and is slow at low rpm. I have major exhaust leaks, thinking it might just need to be tuned.

Also the fuel pressure regulator isn't set up properly or at all. It has an Aeromotive FPR that isn't connected and I'm assuming the stock FPR is still connected but probably Jimmy rigged so the Aeromotive would work but before I fix everything it might be easier to know if it is something else.

Plus I am not understanding why in neutral the A/F is fine. That's the part that doesn't make any sense. It'll go to 7k rpm with 0 bogging but I can't get it past 5k because it is so bad. I don't want to have to weld the exhaust to fit an A/F sensor so I can read the gauge in the car to help problem solve if I don't have to but, I am not seeing any solutions in this thread that seem viable.

 

[DrewmHolland]

I've seen a problem like this before, if you're not making any power on the top end you might be low on oil. it might not be the culprit but its worth a check.

 

[calebjying]

Honestly I'm not entirely sure how that would cause a rich low end situation and bogging in high end. I think your car was just on the verge of death when you put that oil in. Oil is fine. Oil also doesn't change the afr.

 

[DrewmHolland]

so what you're saying is it runs rich at low Rpm's, fine in midrange, and lean on the top end

 

[calebjying]

so what you're saying is it runs rich at low Rpm's, fine in midrange, and lean on the top end

I believe so I don't have a wideband but it's smelly low rpm and bogs high rpm. The 3500-4500 rpm is just perfect. Works fine in neutral though!

 

[DrewmHolland]

that's weird you should check fuel pressure, it should be about 40psi at idle and increase with throttle