400hp goal. need idea for turbo

[ciesla]

Im looking to achieve around 400hp in my 2g eclipse gst. I wanted to know what would be the best turbo to get to help me achieve these goals. and on pump gas

 

[Boug]

I know that you didn't specify what exactly is pump gas for you. For those of us here in Arizona, we consider pump gas to be predominantly 91-octane. In areas north, they can get 94-octane, etc., etc., etc. I'll assume that you are of the 93-octane group. The turbo will always be the limiting factor of the power goals you have in mind (once you determine the fuel of choice). Think of the turbo as nothing more than a restrictor. Restricted by the amount of air that it can flow lbs/min. The next item of business that you'll have to answer is how much do you want to press the turbo to make the stated goal of 400whp? For example, if turbo "x" makes 400whp @ 95% of its efficiency rating, it's taking more grunt to get to that mark as opposed to turbo "y" that makes 400whp @ 75% of its efficiency. That is a decision that you'll have to make for how you plan to use the car once it's built (i.e. - daily driver, autox, drag, street, etc.). There is a plethora of turbo options out there and like a few have already stated, your "budget" has to be considered when making the choice. Assuming that you've addressed your budget, ANY turbo from the 47-52-lbs/min rating will be good for you. For the mods that you have, I'd get tuned first and then see where you stand at that point. It would be far easier to address shortcomings once you see where the car stands.

 

[say4life]

what else do you think I need to get to 400? right now following mods are:
750cc injectors, FP Red turbo, stock internal, greddy catback 4", FMIC, hks intake, ngk spark plugs/wires, walboro 255 I think theres a little bit more, but not sure....what major add ons would i need? my plans for this year are fuel rail and fpr, but thats about it...what do you expect the whp to be? how can I make it to 400?

 

[turboboy4]

what else do you think I need to get to 400? right now following mods are:
750cc injectors, FP Red turbo, stock internal, greddy catback 4", FMIC, hks intake, ngk spark plugs/wires, walboro 255 I think theres a little bit more, but not sure....what major add ons would i need? my plans for this year are fuel rail and fpr, but thats about it...what do you expect the whp to be? how can I make it to 400?

Depending on the fuel those 750's probably wont cut it with the FP red, If you plan on running any sort of high boost get some arp headstuds or you will hate yourself later, And what kind of exhaust manifold are you using?

 

[Deuce of Spades]

What about the 18g? Surely it can hit 400whp with out being pushed as hard as a 16g?

 

[Boug]

what else do you think I need to get to 400? right now following mods are: 750cc injectors, FP Red turbo, stock internal, greddy catback, 4" FMIC, hks intake, ngk spark plugs/wires, walboro 255 I think theres a little bit more, but not sure....what major add ons would i need? my plans for this year are fuel rail and fpr, but thats about it...what do you expect the whp to be? how can I make it to 400?

Assuming that you are going to use pump gas (93 octane), with what you presently have, 400whp would be no problem. The FP Red flows 62-lbs/min so it has a tremendous amount of room before it becomes inefficient. I would not worry about a fuel rail or FPR right now (unless you just want to buy them).

 

[RT-AWD]

I respectfully disagree. At 400 whp, there is quite a bit to be gained my using a SMIM. I've known a few guys that dynoed around 400 whp, then added a set of mild cams and a SMIM, and they picked up another 75 whp. So if someone were to plan ahead on a build and use parts like aftermarket cams and a SMIM, they could hit that 400 WHP mark a bit easier (IE: less boost, smaller compressor, less aggressive tune, etc...)

OP: You're probably going to want to use something that flows around 50 lbs/min. You have alot of options depending on your budget and which turbine housing you require.

Going from a stock head to a built head with 272 cams the gain is about 60 horsepower. That leaves 15 horsepower from a part that costs $400+. Considering your statement here.
THOUGH on the other hand my friend claims that with a SMIM he was able to run a 12.5 (EVO3 16g) when his previous best time was a 12.6 (without the SMIM). Not bad.

To the OP: For a street turbo i would stay with a EVO3 16g and at max a 50 trim or HX-35. I have a 50-trim and im pretty happy, i cant wait til my new motor is ready to eat some boost. Friend has a HX-35 on his car, when i drove it, i loved it, pulled hard and long...thats what she said

Assuming that you are going to use pump gas (93 octane), with what you presently have, 400whp would be no problem. The FP Red flows 62-lbs/min so it has a tremendous amount of room before it becomes inefficient. I would not worry about a fuel rail or FPR right now (unless you just want to buy them).

i would (and have) get a FPR to tune your fuel pressure/handle the larger amount of fuel and plus its just simply smart to have one (with a guage obviously aeromotive sell an awesome kit i bought mine on PunishmentRacing.com). You dont need a fuel rail (besides for show).

To say4life i dont see a downpipe listed in there just a cat back, that stock DP is restricting the hell out of you. Free up air flow, more air = more power. What are you tuning with? have you done any driveline mods? If not atleast get a tougher clutch.

 

[pboglio]

Since I'm already near the 400 w.h.p. mark, I'll comment. Based on my build up, it took me almost 1 year to even come near that mark, even with 95% of the necessary mods. I feel you learn more on a smaller turbo, and its cost is cheap "upfront". If you can max out the EVO3 16g, your totally ready for bigger. If your goals are big power, then step to the bigger turbos straight off. I'm not a fan of lag, and even the EVO3 16g can be laggy under certain situations. I've broken many transmissions, wasted ALOT of money on high octane fuel, literally enough to buy a couple turbos.

Every turbo has its pros and cons. At this point, I might step to a 20g/TD06. E85 is in my future so I could hit my power goals without much effort.

In a nutshell, the EVO3 16g is very much like a grenade at the 400 w.h.p. mark, you pull the pin and throw it, sometimes not knowing what is going to happen. If this is not your cup of tea, go bigger.

 

[untouchablecc]

Every turbo has its pros and cons. At this point, I might step to a 20g/TD06. E85 is in my future so I could hit my power goals without much effort.

What do you expect the spool up to be like on the tdo06? I am curious because i too am not a big fan of lag. I had a 16g and wanted to go bigger and i wanted to get a tdo5 20g because the spool up is the same but i was told the td06 is laggy for its size. I ended up switching to a holset h1c because the 16g died and it was the cheapest turbo for the money. I bought a bep .55 housing, h1c, hafe manifold, 38.mm external waste gate, and lines for under 560 dollars. Thats the cost of a 16g brand new. I went this route because its all i could afford because i daily my car and i said if i didnt like it i would go to a 20g

I would not get the 16g for a 400whp turbo you would just be chasing your tail. At the very least a 20g or 50 trim or holset. If your a baller an have some money then by all means step up too a fp 3052 but be prepared to spend 1200 plus.

 

[say4life]

Yeah, no DP, didn't really think one was necessary yet...but, im planning on tuning with DSMlink. and I thought a fuel rail was also to help give more fuel? if not then forget it for now! But, i'm not sure about the clutch part, it does seem a little bit harder than stock!

Going from a stock head to a built head with 272 cams the gain is about 60 horsepower. That leaves 15 horsepower from a part that costs $400+. Considering your statement here.
THOUGH on the other hand my friend claims that with a SMIM he was able to run a 12.5 (EVO3 16g) when his previous best time was a 12.6 (without the SMIM). Not bad.

To the OP: For a street turbo i would stay with a EVO3 16g and at max a 50 trim or HX-35. I have a 50-trim and im pretty happy, i cant wait til my new motor is ready to eat some boost. Friend has a HX-35 on his car, when i drove it, i loved it, pulled hard and long...thats what she said



i would (and have) get a FPR to tune your fuel pressure/handle the larger amount of fuel and plus its just simply smart to have one (with a guage obviously aeromotive sell an awesome kit i bought mine on PunishmentRacing.com). You dont need a fuel rail (besides for show).

To say4life i dont see a downpipe listed in there just a cat back, that stock DP is restricting the hell out of you. Free up air flow, more air = more power. What are you tuning with? have you done any driveline mods? If not atleast get a tougher clutch.

Depending on the fuel those 750's probably wont cut it with the FP red, If you plan on running any sort of high boost get some arp headstuds or you will hate yourself later, And what kind of exhaust manifold are you using?

What kind of fuel can hold the 750 with the FP red? ### its gonna be my DD for sometime, so not planning on running too high of a boost, and i'm just running stock exhaust manifolds...should i get one now?

So, What i've gotten so far is that I should get an Exhaust manifold and FPR? At least those two before I go tune? Don't got too much room for a budget for this year...not including tuning, my budget is limited to about 1k for this year, so what do you suggest I get to get it close to as 400hp?

 

[Boug]

I thought a fuel rail was also to help give more fuel? if not then forget it for now!

What kind of fuel can hold the 750 with the FP red? ### its gonna be my DD for sometime, so not planning on running too high of a boost, and i'm just running stock exhaust manifolds...should i get one now?

So, what i've gotten so far is that I should get an exhaust manifold and FPR? At least those two before I go tune?

If you are on a $1K budget for the year, then you need to check to see how much it's going to cost to get you tuned first and the plan backward. Have you purchased your tuning software yet? If no, the next logical choice (assuming that you haven't busted your budget) is to get the fuel pressure regulator followed by the exhaust manifold.

What do you mean by what kind of fuel can "hold" the 750cc injectors? The amount of flow (IDCs) will be limited by the amount of power you are making at the time of and during the tune.

 

[pboglio]

What do you expect the spool up to be like on the tdo06? I am curious because i too am not a big fan of lag. I had a 16g and wanted to go bigger and i wanted to get a tdo5 20g because the spool up is the same but i was told the td06 is laggy for its size. I ended up switching to a holset h1c because the 16g died and it was the cheapest turbo for the money. I bought a bep .55 housing, h1c, hafe manifold, 38.mm external waste gate, and lines for under 560 dollars. Thats the cost of a 16g brand new. I went this route because its all i could afford because i daily my car and i said if i didnt like it i would go to a 20g

I would not get the 16g for a 400whp turbo you would just be chasing your tail. At the very least a 20g or 50 trim or holset. If your a baller an have some money then by all means step up too a fp 3052 but be prepared to spend 1200 plus.

Spool logs I looked at had the 20g TD06 full tilt at about 3700 rpms. My EVO3 16g at about 3400-3500 rpms. The 20g TD06 logs I saw was laying down about 300 lb-ft of torque at about 3500 rpms, 2x 50 trim logs I looked at both had them at about 4000 rpms. Then another back to back dyno comparison of the 20g vs. 50 trim pretty much had the same results. Peak power between them was extremely close anyways. It simply outspooled and outhustled the 50 trim. The 50 trim is generally accepted as a lazy offboost turbo, the logs back some of this up. Not knocking it, as it is generally accepted as a better pump gas turbo, just not my cup of tea.

 

[RT-AWD]

the oem fuel rail flows enough for your goal, josh from jnz tuning told me 2 years ago told me that a fuel rail isnt neccesary unless your planning huge power.

 

[turboboy4]

Spool logs I looked at had the 20g TD06 full tilt at about 3700 rpms. My EVO3 16g at about 3400-3500 rpms. The 20g TD06 logs I saw was laying down about 300 lb-ft of torque at about 3500 rpms, 2x 50 trim logs I looked at both had them at about 4000 rpms. Then another back to back dyno comparison of the 20g vs. 50 trim pretty much had the same results. Peak power between them was extremely close anyways. It simply outspooled and outhustled the 50 trim. The 50 trim is generally accepted as a lazy offboost turbo, the logs back some of this up. Not knocking it, as it is generally accepted as a better pump gas turbo, just not my cup of tea.

The HX-35 will spool as fast as both of those turbos with similair mods and are the same price as the 16g and cheaper than the 20g. I know that when you do the holset setup that you are going custom and spending money on oil lines and everything that you wouldnt do on a 16g but there is so much more potential with the hx-35 and you wont be maxing it out unlike the 16g

 

[ist dwa]

I'd get a holset, it is pretty much the best turbo you can buy.

 

[untouchablecc]

I'd get a holset, it is pretty much the best turbo you can buy.

If there was a best turbo there would be no need for this thread and we would all have the miracle turbo. I would never use a holset on a auto x application unless i had a stroker set up. Its not the best turbo by any means, its just an affordable power house.

 

[say4life]

the oem fuel rail flows enough for your goal, josh from jnz tuning told me 2 years ago told me that a fuel rail isnt neccesary unless your planning huge power.

ok cool, thanks!

So, with a fpr and exhaust manifold and then a tune should get me close to 400hp?

 

[Lavery]

Holset Hx35, Built to do work and spool fast. Capable of your goal + some. You can pick one up off a cummings forum for $300 to $400.

 

[dsm-onster]

There is no best turbo out there. But there is a best turbo for a particular goal. And through mine and others experience. The hx35 develops more torque than other turbos of similar frame and as well spools faster, very close to a 16g, as I've varified with link data myself. A 16g is a great autox turbo. So there's something to say about the hx35, considering its counterparts are the fp3052 and 20g and 50-trim and s256. Again, think along the lines of YOUR goal.

 

[zachwilliams02]

Ok guys what do you think I need. I want a 350 to 400 whp car. I have a tsi and 2g. Fic 550 Wally 190 e316gbuit I have a hx35 waiting for it in my garage and I'm currently running 18 psi. Just bought headstuds and they are going in next week when they arrive. Buying a set of cams next week a 272 280 combo